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EVE's ever growing ISK inflation cost rates.

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Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2013-04-16 09:36:59 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

Inflation is governed by the availability of money within an economy and the only way to slow it sufficiently within the EvE economy is to remove almost as much isk as you are putting in there are no other ways.
Not necessarily. It should protect the value of ISK it doesn't have to have any effect on inflation. The money supply in the US has risen a large amount in the last few year, but inflation has not followed. Demand Driven Inflation is usually a more pressing concern.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2013-04-16 09:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Frying Doom wrote:
...
No we are comparing isk/hr between different jobs, not different currencies.
Miners are not paid in ISK... the receive in effect flat rate pay based on skills and equipment. Their pay can be calculated out per hour... it isn't in ISK.

When ISK is devalued through its expansion, those paid in ISK make less. The effect on miner paid in something else is little affected.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-04-16 09:44:24 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
...As it is possible to inflate the barter cost of an apple by creating a shortage or making them a treasured item, such as the tulip bulb bubble.
Didn't the Goons do this with one of their Moon Products? I believe OPEC did it with oil also.
Frying Doom
#144 - 2013-04-16 09:50:09 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

Inflation is governed by the availability of money within an economy and the only way to slow it sufficiently within the EvE economy is to remove almost as much isk as you are putting in there are no other ways.
Not necessarily. It should protect the value of ISK it doesn't have to have any effect on inflation. The money supply in the US has risen a large amount in the last few year, but inflation has not followed. Demand Driven Inflation is usually a more pressing concern.

The reason that US interest rates are so low, and inflation has not followed is that the increase in the supply of money is keeping the economy from contracting.

They are deliberately doing that to prevent a recession, the supply of money when increased, increases the economy. If your economy is going to strong you increase interest rates to decrease the amount in circulation and this slows an economy.

The fact that the interest rates are so low, with inflation barely getting to two percent says a lot but the gold price at 1390USD is showing that consumer confidence in the US is increasing and so the interest rates will probably start to rise soon.

Gold is a good indicator of an economy, it shows consumer confidence levels.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#145 - 2013-04-16 09:51:05 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
...As it is possible to inflate the barter cost of an apple by creating a shortage or making them a treasured item, such as the tulip bulb bubble.
Didn't the Goons do this with one of their Moon Products? I believe OPEC did it with oil also.

I think that was just price fixing, refusing to sell the commodity below a certain level.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#146 - 2013-04-16 09:53:07 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
...
No we are comparing isk/hr between different jobs, not different currencies.
Miners are not paid in ISK... the receive in effect flat rate pay based on skills and equipment. Their pay can be calculated out per hour... it isn't in ISK.

When ISK is devalued through its expansion, those paid in ISK make less. The effect on miner paid in something else is little affected.

We are all paid in isk, the difference between a mission runner and a miner is, a mission runner is paid a flat rate, while a miner is paid isk for their goods via supply and demand.

So as inflation causes a goods value to rise a supply and demand market will compensate but a fixed income will not.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2013-04-16 10:35:59 UTC
Nice discussion. Is ok if we leave it here?

Smile
Frying Doom
#148 - 2013-04-16 11:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Nice discussion. Is ok if we leave it here?

Smile

I am fine with that, I hope it helped.

Thank you for the discussionSmile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#149 - 2013-04-16 11:09:38 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Why should anything be done?



Cause it further divides the gap between the haves and the have nots. A newb today has to work much much harder to get the isk for a bs than say a year ago.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-04-16 11:25:19 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Why should anything be done?



Cause it further divides the gap between the haves and the have nots. A newb today has to work much much harder to get the isk for a bs than say a year ago.


That's not entirely true. If he mines, the ore he sells usually matches inflation.

So a person in a retriever today makes much more isk than he would have 2 years ago (well that and the exhumer buffs).

So in effect, if a newbie mines, they can afford things at the same rate they did before.

If he missions...

Well let them eat cake and buy a plex or two to buy that battleship.

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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#151 - 2013-04-16 17:00:41 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
I'd be curious to see price charts for trit, pyer, and all core minerals from the start, and all new minerals or production materials from their introduction. Considering that someone was recently doing a Chicken Little routine over a trit price crash, and others gripe over the ISK/hour of mining scordite (as pyer is evidently in short supply, elevating prices), my guess is that prices are constantly fluctuating.


I can't provide anything like a full table but I can say, from my own records, that the price of most minerals has approximately doubled in the past eighteen months - with the notable exceptions of Zydrine and Megacyte, the prices for both of which have fallen slightly and Pyerite which has more than tripled in just the past year.

I do not believe however that this price hike has drastically changed the affordability of ships to newer players, at least not significantly, from the days of 1 ISK tritanium and 16 ISK Isogen.
There was a significant slump in prices, particularly of big ticket items like Battleships, when I was (probably) a year old - Ravens were going for about 85 million ISK - and it was then that I purchased my first Dominix.
I purchased a Thorax at a significant discount (5 mil, market price 7) from the corp I subsequently joined after more than two weeks in game... And it took a lot of work to get that money together.

The money available to newer players today, through the career agents, The Blood Stained Stars and so forth, is vastly greater than was available to the average newbie when I was still in the rookie help channel - and as their wealth has increased the buying power of their isk has, I'm afraid, dropped.
Nonetheless, the time it takes to develop (for example) from L1 and a frigate to L4 missions and a Battleship has dropped significantly thanks to things like the introduction of the the old Tier 2 Battlecruisers.
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
#152 - 2013-04-16 17:14:59 UTC
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2013-04-16 17:45:35 UTC
I must be doing things wrong. Some BPO's, a venture, grind a few missions a week for LP. I'm able to grind out some frigate hulls , ammo and what not when I get the urge.

I produce what I need for my own personal use.

So I must be doing it wrong.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#154 - 2013-04-16 18:42:37 UTC
If you really want to lower the cost of ships:

Refactor asteroid belts to be more like ice belts. That is have the roids have an enormous amount of ore, to the point where you can park a Mack by one, turn on the lasers and come back 40 minutes later to a full hold with little chance the riod will pop while you are afk. There would not even be a need to increase the amount of ore that spawns in any given solar system, just change the belts to having a couple of large roids rather than a large number of small ones.

Do that and ore prices will fall just like ice prices have. They will continue to fall until miners turn to missions to get ISK.

But I think most players and CCP are leaning the other way: Make ice belts more like ore belts, with small, depeatable roids.

CCP actually has a system set up that controls inflation: Missions vs mining. If ore prices go up more players mine and fewer do missions. The result in an increase in materials (driving down prices) and a decrease in the ISK supply. So why have ore prices gone up recently? Because CCP has done some buffs that increase the rate you can make ISK from missions. Such as making all agents quality 20, the drone damage amplifier, the Noctis, and some weapons buffs. The ISK per hour you get from missioning has gone up, so more players mission and fewer mine. Then ore prices go up and the players switch back until a new equilibrium is established.

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Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#155 - 2013-04-16 22:14:51 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
On that I must agree inflation of 1-3% PA is the preferable range. Deflation is almost never preferable.

Murray Newton Rothbard

Quote:
It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.