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Frighter "unfair rules"
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Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-04-11 19:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

First off, I never stated freighters are broken.. but I definitely think they can be much improved in a manner inline with the spirit of EvE gameplay. Furthermore, your comparisons are extremely bad...

A transport ship has many options... the deep space transport can wield a 100k EHP tank while sacrificing all but 6k cargo... or it can carry 30+k m3 while having little tank...

An archon can be fit for all sorts of things... from lowsec invulnerable jump travel to long range logistics to direct combat to triage support...

In contrast, a freighter is a VERY static ship.... It's hauling capacity is static, it has a static velocity, a static agility, it has a static amount of HP.... and you can't change diddly about it... I realize the freighter's role is 1-Dimensional, but that doesn't mean it should have static attributes... While many ships have pretty narrow role definitions, their fitting options allow players to optimize the ship while performing that role. Optimizing your fittings is a MAJOR part of flying a ship right, and allowing freighters pilots fitting options (within reasonable restrictions) is completely within the spirit of EvE.

FYI: Limiting your cargo to make you less suited to suicide ganking is NOT a form of optimizing the freighter, it's a means of optimizing your logistics... There is a very big difference!

If you think the fitting options I suggested are out-of-line... please elaborate....
If you think freighters shouldn't be optimize-able... please elaborate...

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

To be frank, it's exactly like your "red list" that freighter's SHOULD be given fitting options. Then they can "fit a tank" to attempt inhibit your gank (perhaps sacrificing 90% of their hauling capacity to do so), or they could try something else...

And even if CCP arbitrarily doubled the EHP of freighters (which I don't support), it would take 5 seconds to "do the homework" and determine the profit margins and firepower needed. And there would still moronic freighter pilots making themselves viable targets...

Now, are you too lazy to do this? Can you not activate that brain of yours and determine a new profit threshold? In truth, organized groups like the goons should support giving freighters reasonable fitting options... because a non-homogeneous line up of freighters created by fitting perturbations makes calculating the profitability threshold much more difficult to emulate. In other words.. it makes it so smart gankers have a wider array of acceptable targets than some random copycat corp.


Quoted so you can't delete~


"A transport ship has many options... the deep space transport can wield a 100k EHP tank while sacrificing all but 6k cargo... or it can carry 30+k m3 while having little tank..."
You can't scan the cargo, regardless of tank.
Let me say this for the third time in this thread as clearly as I possibly can.
You cannot scan the cargohold of a Blockade Runner. Blockade Runners can use a Covops cloak. You're not going to get ganked in one.


The rest of your posts boil down to you (a red) being mad about us killing unescorted red freighters flying through highsec like idiots. Then you offer utterly ineffective ideas as for how to keep us from killing your logistics pilots while still allowing folks like us to murder the terminally stupid. We're also not the only people in eve who have copies of EFT.





fakeedit: We should totally put fittings on shuttles guys. Those need to be even harder to catch I can't even fly one around full of plex with hostile hictors around this is bullshit.

e2: Basically what Sixx said.
Viden Anzomi
Marvinovi pratele
#82 - 2013-04-11 19:42:19 UTC
do not know why the goons scum still is advertising, try to give substantive topic. Or perhaps GM CCP forgot to relog the main character?
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-04-11 19:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Viden Anzomi wrote:
do not know why the goons scum still is advertising, try to give substantive topic. Or perhaps GM CCP forgot to relog the main character?


Are you using google translate? We can't understand you at all.

я тебя не понимаю
Nie rozumiem co do mnie mówisz
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#84 - 2013-04-11 19:51:30 UTC
Sixx Spades wrote:
Tell me more about tanking your freighters because you don't want to fly other ships better suited for hauling discreetly. :allears:


Blah, blah... use a Transport ship becuase it's unscannable... blah, blah... You're comparing apples and oranges. A max-hauling transport ship hauls 1/30th the amount of a freighter... and is extremely limited in what it can carry...

Sixx Spades wrote:
I bolded the important parts because I can't trust the audience in this thread to have the :effort: to look beyond the stuff that stands out. For instance, here's the tl;dr of your post:

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
I want more EHP on my freighter because the current mechanics are haaaard. Hauling is haaaard. Taking preventative measures is haaaaard. Training into a Transport Ship is haaaard. Fix it, CCP.


the tl;dr of my post is:

I want to optimize my freighter for specific haul jobs, just like you'd optimize a Talos for specific PvP operations.

I noticed how you didn't replay to:
  • If you think the fitting options I suggested are out-of-line... please elaborate....
  • If you think freighters shouldn't be optimize-able... please elaborate...

    • Now, please reply with something constructive..
    Viden Anzomi
    Marvinovi pratele
    #85 - 2013-04-11 19:51:49 UTC
    I do not know why the goons scum still does advertising.
    try to address the topic. Or perhaps you forgot to GM from CCP, relog main char (goons) on the GM account?
    Sir Marksalot
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #86 - 2013-04-11 19:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
    Viden Anzomi wrote:
    I do not know why the goons scum still does advertising.
    try to address the topic. Or perhaps you forgot to GM from CCP, relog main char (goons) on the GM account?



    Sorry, not trying to be rude but I still don't understand you.

    try using http://translate.google.com



    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    Sixx Spades wrote:
    Tell me more about tanking your freighters because you don't want to fly other ships better suited for hauling discreetly. :allears:


    Blah, blah... use a Transport ship becuase it's unscannable... blah, blah... You're comparing apples and oranges. A max-hauling transport ship hauls 1/30th the amount of a freighter... and is extremely limited in what it can carry...

    Sixx Spades wrote:
    I bolded the important parts because I can't trust the audience in this thread to have the :effort: to look beyond the stuff that stands out. For instance, here's the tl;dr of your post:

    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    I want more EHP on my freighter because the current mechanics are haaaard. Hauling is haaaard. Taking preventative measures is haaaaard. Training into a Transport Ship is haaaard. Fix it, CCP.


    the tl;dr of my post is:

    I want to optimize my freighter for specific haul jobs, just like you'd optimize a Talos for specific PvP operations.

    I noticed how you didn't replay to:
  • If you think the fitting options I suggested are out-of-line... please elaborate....
  • If you think freighters shouldn't be optimize-able... please elaborate...

    • Now, please reply with something constructive..


    What you want is a freighter with at least triple the EHP that functions as a very large blockade runner that can be autopiloted around 2-3 dozen enemies. The trade-off you offer is "well what if someone didn't put a damage control on and only threw on cargo expanders and cargo expansion rigs".


    The funny part is that all of these suggestions you offer already exist in the form of other ships.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #87 - 2013-04-11 20:02:19 UTC
    Sir Marksalot wrote:


    Quoted so you can't delete~


    "A transport ship has many options... the deep space transport can wield a 100k EHP tank while sacrificing all but 6k cargo... or it can carry 30+k m3 while having little tank..."
    You can't scan the cargo, regardless of tank.
    Let me say this for the third time in this thread as clearly as I possibly can.
    You cannot scan the cargohold of a Blockade Runner. Blockade Runners can use a Covops cloak. You're not going to get ganked in one.


    I never said you could scan a transport ship... I gave examples of how you can optimize your transport ship to suite your needs.

    A Blockade runner has a 10k m3 max haul....
    A paper thin DST has a 30-40k m3 max haul... but fitting so is still risky even if you can't scan it because it's paper thin...

    Finally, neither of these options are necessarily viable for bulk level hauling (50k m3 or more).

    Sir Marksalot wrote:

    The rest of your posts boil down to you (a red) being mad about us killing unescorted red freighters flying through highsec like idiots. Then you offer utterly ineffective ideas as for how to keep us from killing your logistics pilots while still allowing folks like us to murder the terminally stupid. We're also not the only people in eve who have copies of EFT.

    fakeedit: We should totally put fittings on shuttles guys. Those need to be even harder to catch I can't even fly one around full of plex with hostile hictors around this is bullshit.

    e2: Basically what Sixx said.


    I have never lost a freighter.... in nullsec, lowsec, nor highsec on a main nor on an alt! And I don't give a rats ass what color goons sets me...

    Serious question: if a shuttle had light fitting options... would that imbalance the game?

    Now, please reply with something constructive..
  • If you think the fitting options I suggested are out-of-line... please elaborate....
  • If you think freighters shouldn't be optimize-able... please elaborate...

    • or continue to troll....

    Sir Marksalot
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #88 - 2013-04-11 20:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    I never said you could scan a transport ship... I gave examples of how you can optimize your transport ship to suite your needs.

    A Blockade runner has a 10k m3 max haul....
    A paper thin DST has a 30-40k m3 max haul... but fitting so is still risky even if you can't scan it because it's paper thin...

    Finally, neither of these options are necessarily viable for bulk level hauling (50k m3 or more).

    High Value Cargo. You're welcome. Cry about a lack of EHP all you want, but it's irrelevant when nobody is going to see or catch you. Welcome to hauling!


    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Sir Marksalot wrote:

    The rest of your posts boil down to you (a red) being mad about us killing unescorted red freighters flying through highsec like idiots. Then you offer utterly ineffective ideas as for how to keep us from killing your logistics pilots while still allowing folks like us to murder the terminally stupid. We're also not the only people in eve who have copies of EFT.

    fakeedit: We should totally put fittings on shuttles guys. Those need to be even harder to catch I can't even fly one around full of plex with hostile hictors around this is bullshit.

    e2: Basically what Sixx said.


    I have never lost a freighter.... in nullsec, lowsec, nor highsec on a main nor on an alt! And I don't give a rats ass what color goons sets me...

    Serious question: if a shuttle had light fitting options... would that imbalance the game?

    Now, please reply with something constructive..
  • If you think the fitting options I suggested are out-of-line... please elaborate....
  • If you think freighters shouldn't be optimize-able... please elaborate...

    • or continue to troll....


    And do address these in list form, since you like lists~


    • I never said you lost a freighter.
    • So you're saying I should be able to move around high/lowsec with impunity in a 20k isk ship?
    • We already have. You seem to ignore it on the basis of "But I really really want obelisks to tank like a carrier".
    • Ellipses abuse makes people look p. dumb.



    edit: just bringing this back do demonstrate how little you care about us killing hostile freighters
    Quote:
    To be frank, it's exactly like your "red list" that freighter's SHOULD be given fitting options. Then they can "fit a tank" to attempt inhibit your gank (perhaps sacrificing 90% of their hauling capacity to do so), or they could try something else...
    Hans Momaki
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #89 - 2013-04-11 20:13:03 UTC
    The only problem with freighters is that you have combat-ships with more DPS arround nowadays. Cheap 1k++ DPS throwaway BC's which enables gankees to gank a freighter with 6-7 people is way.. off.

    Freighters and their small EHP are outdated in comparison to (Tier 3) BC's with their insane DPS. They need to be brought up to 2013 aswell. The game evolves, and freighters should do the same.
    Sir Marksalot
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #90 - 2013-04-11 20:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
    Hans Momaki wrote:
    The only problem with freighters is that you have combat-ships with more DPS arround nowadays. Cheap 1k++ DPS throwaway BC's which enables gankees to gank a freighter with 6-7 people is way.. off.

    Freighters and their small EHP are outdated in comparison to (Tier 3) BC's with their insane DPS. They need to be brought up to 2013 aswell. The game evolves, and freighters should do the same.


    i'm rich as hell but a talosfleet ain't cheap, yo~

    neither are dead haulers, since CCP decided to go ahead and make wreck looting suspect flag you

    e: To be fairly serious, what would you suggest? Doubling the ehp? How expensive should killing a freighter be, exactly?

    e2: Our preferred ship is the brutix. Which has been around forever, hth.
    Viden Anzomi
    Marvinovi pratele
    #91 - 2013-04-11 20:31:21 UTC
    I think he said it exactly. Change of cargo ships (EHP, fittings, etc.) = 0
    Powers Sa
    #92 - 2013-04-11 20:42:36 UTC
    Naomi Knight wrote:

    high sec is not hostile space

    Eve is a hostile place, no matter where you are. You assume the risk of your social associations.

    Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

    Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #93 - 2013-04-11 20:56:29 UTC
    Thank you for the more constructive feedback...

    Sir Marksalot wrote:


    What you want is a freighter with at least triple the EHP that functions as a very large blockade runner that can be autopiloted around 2-3 dozen enemies. The trade-off you offer is "well what if someone didn't put a damage control on and only threw on cargo expanders and cargo expansion rigs".



    I want the option to fit it this way if that's optimal for how I use it... but not without drawbacks:
    For example:
    If tanking it required Reinforced Bulkheads, the freighter would lose 11% speed and 1% agility, per bulkhead..
    -- This means a trip might take twice as long... there'd still be a cargo value threshold that make them profitable to gank.
    ^^ is this unreasonable?

    Alternatively, I may want to optimize it for agility and warp speed for use in nullsec...
    Alternatively, I may want to optimize for max hauling when moving large amounts of trit around..
    Generally, I'd personally fit it at some midpoint...

    My question to you, at what point (and why) does this make suicide ganking freighters no longer viable game-play. My goal is NOT to eliminate such game play, but to allow freighter optimization within appropriate limits... There's a lot of "wiggle-room" here, and I'd like to know where the limits are.

    Sir Marksalot wrote:
    The funny part is that all of these suggestions you offer already exist in the form of other ships.


    A BR has 10k m3 max cargo... a DST has 30-40k m3 max cargo... an Orca has the same EHP range of a freighter, with much less hauling capacity. A JF sort of fits... but costs enormously more for a very potent but not necessarily applicable feature.

    There are also options in the form of team-play... which is sometimes applicable and sometimes impractical.
    Sixx Spades
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #94 - 2013-04-11 20:59:52 UTC
    Viden Anzomi wrote:
    I think he said it exactly. Change of cargo ships (EHP, fittings, etc.) = 0

    Let's face it, you're gonna latch on to any idea that removes your personal responsibility from the matter.

    Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #95 - 2013-04-11 21:27:44 UTC
    Sir Marksalot wrote:
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    I never said you could scan a transport ship... I gave examples of how you can optimize your transport ship to suite your needs.

    A Blockade runner has a 10k m3 max haul....
    A paper thin DST has a 30-40k m3 max haul... but fitting so is still risky even if you can't scan it because it's paper thin...

    Finally, neither of these options are necessarily viable for bulk level hauling (50k m3 or more).

    High Value Cargo. You're welcome. Cry about a lack of EHP all you want, but it's irrelevant when nobody is going to see or catch you. Welcome to hauling!


    Transport ships are great for high value, LOW VOLUME items... If I'm moving bpo's, plex, faction mods, etc.... sure...
    If I want to move High Value, Large Volume items (ex: Machariels/Vindicators/Bhaalgorns)... Transport ships are useless. I'm best off just tanking the ship and flying each ship individually, as putting more than one in a freighter is risky, and they fly faster than a freighter.

    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Serious question: if a shuttle had light fitting options... would that imbalance the game?

    Sir Marksalot wrote:
    So you're saying I should be able to move around high/lowsec with impunity in a 20k isk ship?

    -- You already can... use your pod... (sure, it might be smartbombed, but you can SB a shuttle too). Reading between the lines, you're suggesting shuttles would be imbalanced if their fittings made them even more uncatchable.. or perhaps if it made them just as hard to catch as now, but allowed them to carry more. This I'd agree, and then I'd ask where the limit should be.... at which point I'd suggest limiting it's fitting capacity so it can't be tanked excessively (like to survive a large smartbomb), or perhaps it shouldn't have enough fitting to use an AB/MWD.


    edit: just bringing this back do demonstrate how little you care about us killing hostile freighters
    Quote:
    To be frank, it's exactly like your "red list" that freighter's SHOULD be given fitting options. Then they can "fit a tank" to attempt inhibit your gank (perhaps sacrificing 90% of their hauling capacity to do so), or they could try something else...


    This was provided as an example of why fitting options for freighters are a good thing... It allows people to adapt...

    My standings with goons is directly linked to me & my corp's nullsec activities... if we're set red, its just so you & yours can easily identify us in local, cause we're generally there (in a small roaming gang capacity) to shoot you.


    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #96 - 2013-04-11 21:34:55 UTC
    Hans Momaki wrote:
    The only problem with freighters is that you have combat-ships with more DPS arround nowadays. Cheap 1k++ DPS throwaway BC's which enables gankees to gank a freighter with 6-7 people is way.. off.

    Freighters and their small EHP are outdated in comparison to (Tier 3) BC's with their insane DPS. They need to be brought up to 2013 aswell. The game evolves, and freighters should do the same.


    I'm sorry to inform you.... Ganking freighters is harder than it's ever been...

    Tier 3 BC's came out at the same time as the "insurance nerf" to suicide ganking vessels... Prior to Tier 3's, insured battleships were the normal gank vessel, which output very similar dps. The price difference between an insured BS and an uninsured Tier 3 BC is not very much... Add to this the difficulty in ascertaining the loot with CW 2.0, etc...

    The increase in freighter ganking is simply the offshoot of goons perfecting it, and popularizing it.
    Viden Anzomi
    Marvinovi pratele
    #97 - 2013-04-11 21:35:28 UTC
    Sixx Spades wrote:
    Viden Anzomi wrote:
    I think he said it exactly. Change of cargo ships (EHP, fittings, etc.) = 0

    Let's face it, you're gonna latch on to any idea that removes your personal responsibility from the matter.



    it is not possible to discuss with the Goons
    Sir Marksalot
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #98 - 2013-04-11 21:37:24 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    Thank you for the more constructive feedback...

    Sir Marksalot wrote:


    What you want is a freighter with at least triple the EHP that functions as a very large blockade runner that can be autopiloted around 2-3 dozen enemies. The trade-off you offer is "well what if someone didn't put a damage control on and only threw on cargo expanders and cargo expansion rigs".


    I want the option to fit it this way if that's optimal for how I use it... but not without drawbacks:
    For example:
    If tanking it required Reinforced Bulkheads, the freighter would lose 11% speed and 1% agility, per bulkhead..
    -- This means a trip might take twice as long... there'd still be a cargo value threshold that make them profitable to gank.
    ^^ is this unreasonable?

    Wow, what horrible drawbacks. It doesn't mean your trip will take twice as long unless you throw on 50 of them. That's not how bulkheads work dude.

    Not to mention bulkheads aren't the only things that fit in low slots.

    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Alternatively, I may want to optimize it for agility and warp speed for use in nullsec...
    Alternatively, I may want to optimize for max hauling when moving large amounts of trit around..
    Generally, I'd personally fit it at some midpoint...

    (in order)
    Agility and warp speed aren't going to keep your freighter from being murdered. This is why you use a JF or a Rorqual.
    Regular freighters.
    Orcas. (Just use a fenrir)


    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    My question to you, at what point (and why) does this make suicide ganking freighters no longer viable game-play. My goal is NOT to eliminate such game play, but to allow freighter optimization within appropriate limits... There's a lot of "wiggle-room" here, and I'd like to know where the limits are.

    A single DC2 will more than double the freighter's EHP. Then you add some bulkheads, trimarks, and resists for carrier-level EHP with no drawback other than an extra 2-5% align time.

    Sounds balanced to me~


    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    A BR has 10k m3 max cargo... a DST has 30-40k m3 max cargo... an Orca has the same EHP range of a freighter, with much less hauling capacity. A JF sort of fits... but costs enormously more for a very potent but not necessarily applicable feature.

    There are also options in the form of team-play... which is sometimes applicable and sometimes impractical.


    A BR isn't going to get caught period, a DST has built in warp stabs, and orcas are far more agile than freighters while holding up to 92k m/3.
    Sir Marksalot
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #99 - 2013-04-11 21:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    Sir Marksalot wrote:
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    I never said you could scan a transport ship... I gave examples of how you can optimize your transport ship to suite your needs.

    A Blockade runner has a 10k m3 max haul....
    A paper thin DST has a 30-40k m3 max haul... but fitting so is still risky even if you can't scan it because it's paper thin...

    Finally, neither of these options are necessarily viable for bulk level hauling (50k m3 or more).

    High Value Cargo. You're welcome. Cry about a lack of EHP all you want, but it's irrelevant when nobody is going to see or catch you. Welcome to hauling!


    Transport ships are great for high value, LOW VOLUME items... If I'm moving bpo's, plex, faction mods, etc.... sure...
    If I want to move High Value, Large Volume items (ex: Machariels/Vindicators/Bhaalgorns)... Transport ships are useless. I'm best off just tanking the ship and flying each ship individually, as putting more than one in a freighter is risky, and they fly faster than a freighter.

    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Serious question: if a shuttle had light fitting options... would that imbalance the game?


    -- You already can... use your pod... (sure, it might be smartbombed, but you can SB a shuttle too). Reading between the lines, you're suggesting shuttles would be imbalanced if their fittings made them even more uncatchable.. or perhaps if it made them just as hard to catch as now, but allowed them to carry more. This I'd agree, and then I'd ask where the limit should be.... at which point I'd suggest limiting it's fitting capacity so it can't be tanked excessively (like to survive a large smartbomb), or perhaps it shouldn't have enough fitting to use an AB/MWD.


    edit: just bringing this back do demonstrate how little you care about us killing hostile freighters
    Quote:
    To be frank, it's exactly like your "red list" that freighter's SHOULD be given fitting options. Then they can "fit a tank" to attempt inhibit your gank (perhaps sacrificing 90% of their hauling capacity to do so), or they could try something else...


    This was provided as an example of why fitting options for freighters are a good thing... It allows people to adapt...

    My standings with goons is directly linked to me & my corp's nullsec activities... if we're set red, its just so you & yours can easily identify us in local, cause we're generally there (in a small roaming gang capacity) to shoot you.




    Those high value low volume items are our bread and butter. There's a -reason- we keep telling you about all of these wonderful other ships you can use to haul things. Or did it not even occur to you that there's a reason people would want an uncatchable unscannable cargoship? And maybe I'm giving too much away when I say this, but you shouldn't put 80b worth of PLEX and BPOs into a freighter. Put it in a bomber or something that can actually juke people.
    You clearly don't know anything about hauling efficiently and safely, and despite this you seem to have such big ideas for it.


    And as for whatever it is you guys do in 0.0, I've never even heard of you guys. I looked you up on the standings page because I was curious.
    Turns out I was right. (Also you can set neutrals to display as all sorts of fun colors, you should try it sometime.)
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #100 - 2013-04-11 23:30:41 UTC
    Sir Marksalot wrote:
    Those high value low volume items are our bread and butter. There's a -reason- we keep telling you about all of these wonderful other ships you can use to haul things. Or did it not even occur to you that there's a reason people would want an uncatchable unscannable cargoship? And maybe I'm giving too much away when I say this, but you shouldn't put 80b worth of PLEX and BPOs into a freighter. Put it in a bomber or something that can actually juke people.
    You clearly don't know anything about hauling efficiently and safely, and despite this you seem to have such big ideas for it.

    And as for whatever it is you guys do in 0.0, I've never even heard of you guys. I looked you up on the standings page because I was curious.
    Turns out I was right. (Also you can set neutrals to display as all sorts of fun colors, you should try it sometime.)


    Meh... I've been hauling items through highsec, lowsec, and nullsec since long before your posting character was born. I've lost the occasional haul in lowsec/nullsec, but never in highsec. I know how I like to haul, and what risks I'm willing to take, which is what I base my preferences off of. I generally pay attention to the shifting climates in EvE, I know what I used to get away with hauling, and I've made many adaptations to limit my risks. I'm also a PvP'er first and foremost, and can boast modest success.

    While I might not "know anything about hauling efficiently and safely" on your alliance's scale, I know quite a bit about supplying a small-to-medium sized group like Agony. Our logistics needs don't demand the same efficiency and safety necessary for CFC logistics, but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant or incompetent.

    Do you actually run logistics, or is your entire viewpoint biased by a whole month spent ganking freighters?


    P.S. Thank you for the info that you gank people with bad standings in conjunction with letting me know we have such bad standings.. From my perspective, that's a good thing to know.

    P.P.S. Agony's most known for our public PvP training courses... which generally end with a 50-70 pilot frigate or dessie fleet roaming through nullsec looking for a fight... Outside of that, we're also known for fielding wildcard AT teams... although the farthest we've made it is the octo-finals.