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Frighter "unfair rules"
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Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-04-10 04:49:42 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:


to foster the MMO aspect.


Example:

Security conscious null sec corps on massive logistic ops will give the freighters an escort fleet of some kind. Escort fleet protects the freighters at midpoints if neede be, the eventual low sec/high sec interface system and at least jump into empire to cover them when they jump in there to. Some basic scouting to free up the escorts to say jita and that is how moon goo gets from 0.0 to jita for some.

No. You have no idea what you're talking about (or your alliance was beyond terrible)



Zan Shiro wrote:

Not in null sec, the empire aspect is seen as mentioned above with a scout at the minimum. Ask a buddy to scout your ride to the desto. Your boy jumps into a clean system gate, then checks outbound gate and its clear you jump. Your boy jumps in and sees 10 tier 3 bc's just chilling its decision time: jump or find a new route. Not in a corp and a lone wolf, make a new account and alt tab between the 2 the whole route.

Or like said above limit load value. I assume average price of 10 tier 3' bc's for example. Give or take an isk or 2 an average of 800 mil (80 mil per ship) last time I bohtered to check prices....if off well adjust it.

Then I go the RNG gods will take say 40-50% of cargo on the drop so maybe consider hauling a few hundred mil more.

10 naga's generally will scan you before they engage. Unless they really just don't like you and that hate is enough to get 10 people to crap away 80 mil (or whateve a full fit tier 3 goes for these days) for the lolz a load worth 1 bil after loot reduced to say 600 mil after RNG takes away some cargo means you sail right on by.


Low sec runs....jf's, end of story. Or lots and lots of transport hauling lol. Oh noze I lost my charon in tama. Taking charon to tama was a bad idea to start with.


You really have no idea what you're talking about. At all. I don't even know where to begin here, so I'm just not even going to bother.

Scuzzy Logic wrote:

Aaaaactually they can Just warp off to the nearest safe point and eject their pods, then have someone scoop their hull minutes afterwards. This is why even 0.6 and 0.5 systems are freighter-ganking heavens.


No, you can't. The gank ship dies. You're just as bad as the previous poster.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-04-10 04:50:33 UTC
Really guys, it's ok if you don't ~get eve~. I understand.


Don't try to pretend though because you just end up looking like the dumbest sperglord.
Sixx Spades
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-04-10 05:13:41 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Aaaaactually they can Just warp off to the nearest safe point and eject their pods, then have someone scoop their hull minutes afterwards. This is why even 0.6 and 0.5 systems are freighter-ganking heavens.

No wonder people whine all the time. If this is what folks in Highsec actually believe, I can see why they'd think that SUICIDE GANKING is a SAFE and 100% PROFITABLE endeavor.

EVElopedia wrote:
On any actions that Concord has deemed unacceptable, they will respond by destroying the offender's ship. The offender's pod is not touched. It is considered an exploit to dodge Concord's response. They will never act preemptively.

Seriously, read a wiki.

Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future.
Powers Sa
#44 - 2013-04-10 05:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Powers Sa
Zan Shiro wrote:

Or like said above limit load value. I assume average price of 10 tier 3' bc's for example. Give or take an isk or 2 an average of 800 mil (80 mil per ship) last time I bohtered to check prices....if off well adjust it.

Then I go the RNG gods will take say 40-50% of cargo on the drop so maybe consider hauling a few hundred mil more.

10 naga's generally will scan you before they engage. Unless they really just don't like you and that hate is enough to get 10 people to crap away 80 mil (or whateve a full fit tier 3 goes for these days) for the lolz a load worth 1 bil after loot reduced to say 600 mil after RNG takes away some cargo means you sail right on by.

You're completely disregarding fittings. Why don't you calculate the gank ships at 140mil+

Scuzzy Logic wrote:

Aaaaactually they can Just warp off to the nearest safe point and eject their pods, then have someone scoop their hull minutes afterwards. This is why even 0.6 and 0.5 systems are freighter-ganking heavens.

Also, regarding ISK worth, I have been killed in my Fenrir carrying about 250Ms worth of courrier'd assembled ships. Twice. Thus leading me to never fly a freighter between Amarr and Jita ever again.

The absolute second you go GCC, you are unable to eject from your ship. If you were initiating warp when you went GCC, you die the second you land.

You must have made someone's poop-list for one reason or another (very likely your ******** posting) and now they will kill you, no matter what contents you have, every time you undock in a freighter.

Some people are just dumb, you are unfortunately one of them.

TLDR: OP is mad because he is one of these guys:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16857612
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16765819
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16762872
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16773466
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16724187
And he got boned by Moon Keeper and the Hijacker copycat crew.

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Viden Anzomi
Marvinovi pratele
#45 - 2013-04-10 16:39:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Viden Anzomi
Teckos Pech wrote:
Viden Anzomi wrote:


Snip to save space....




Couple of questions, how much were you carrying, i.e. the isk value? Was it double wrapped? Were you war decced?

You left this stuff out. It is very important to evaluate your post.

If you were carrying a valuable cargo...your mistake. If you were carrying a double wrapped cargo, your mistake as it makes people think it is valuable else why hide it. If you were war decced....well very very much your mistake.



was a carrier outside corporation. He could not be at war. The load was average (here admit a mistake), was simply packed.

The fact that speech is not. It's not about mechanics packaging, etc. We transport the ship was very long and it's first loss. We have always to deal safely. It's about what I write on the post. 15 minutes agro unilaterally favors pirates and disadvantages second group. Risk is also unmatched.

firghter pilot in this case dont use autopilot
Viden Anzomi
Marvinovi pratele
#46 - 2013-04-10 16:45:15 UTC
Because if it wasn't this way you could just log off as soon as anyone shot you.

I understand the mechanics, but in hi sec is clear favoritism pirates

This is not true, it requires at least 2 pilots to keep a freighter constantly aggressed .

you're wrong, one morning 15 minutes agrro

More like 20 (catalyst)

10 catalyst, 4x brutix, ist all
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#47 - 2013-04-10 18:21:08 UTC
note: I have 3 freighter/JF pilots, including one that is max-skilled.

Viden Anzomi wrote:
Recently I was shot in highsec system Deltole. It started as most of the cases. I was bumped from gate by two Machariels and at the same time I was attacked by noobship from the same gang. I think many people know this and experienced same situation as I did before. I want to point out that I was not using autopilot.


Bumped away from the gate? Either you warped to zero and jumped through fine, or were aligning from your outgate, where bumping mechanics are as old itself as eve.

Viden Anzomi wrote:
1. Why did Freighter pilot, that didn't aggress or attack and does not have any modules, get 15 min timer and got penalty and can't log off because he would be seen in space anyway even after log off ? Why was penalised someone who did not do anything and didn't attack anyone?

I think that this one does not make any sense. Pilot that does not do anything (no attack, no aggression) is penalized for NOTHING! He is not braking any rules (laws) that are given in highsec by Concord.


Because logging off is not meant to be used as a feature to avoid being shot at by someone, it is meant purely to be used when you are going to stop playing.

Viden Anzomi wrote:
There is not much that Freighter pilot can do in this situation and all odds are on enemies (pirates) side.


friendly webber can allow you to warp out in around 3 seconds.

Viden Anzomi wrote:
Pilot (pirate) that attacks Freighter and his ship is destroyed can just dock on station and gets new noobship for free, undock and aggro the same Freighter again (even so the Freighter pilot is logged off but his ship is still in game) and so he can keep the Freighter in game indefinitely. Expenses for the pirate? None, he will get the noobship for free.


They have to setup, by scramble modules, have the skills to use them, they loose security status every time they do, you gain kill-rights on them that you can sell to make their life in empire difficult, you can be spiteful and drop a billion isk bounty on their head.

Viden Anzomi wrote:
2. Regarding the nature of Freighter ship (almost 0% resistance) it's really easy to shoot it down for other players (pirates). Why is this type of ship build like this ?

Low resistance and impossibility to fit any modules on Freighter decrease it's variability, flexibility to zero. I am not saying that Freighter should become unbeatable fortress but it should be little bit more survivable. Why shouldn't pirates pay bigger price for nice and expensive loot and ship
they are getting by shooting down Freighter then couple of Catalysts?


For Balance. and a freighter cannot be shot down by 'a couple of Catalysts' unless you are the worst pilot in eve.
Viden Anzomi
Marvinovi pratele
#48 - 2013-04-10 19:37:49 UTC
shot down with only - 10 catalyst, 4x brutix, ist all

I think that this topic is primarily about gaming mechanisms still maintain that 15 minutes is unfair agro against anyone who caused him (in hisec)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2013-04-10 20:08:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Viden Anzomi wrote:
I would like to say one thing. This topic is a reflection on the game mechanics. I'm not against principilen gank mechanics.

- The second character with web is acceptable tactic, I know her
- Carry less - ok why not.

But the purpose of this discussion is to consider the features of this game mechanics, which clearly favors some and harms others. My opinion is that the press should be proportionate to risk. These (gank-pirate) people are safe.

I apologize for my English.


The gankers are guarenteed to loose their ships, how is this safe? The only reason its done is because people make it easy, profitable and fun. It is the harderst (and least profitable) it has ever been to kill freighters in highsec. It has ben nerfed repeatedly and it is very easy to avoid. If you die now it is no ones fault but your own so there is no reason for a change in game mechanics.


Aaaaactually they can Just warp off to the nearest safe point and eject their pods, then have someone scoop their hull minutes afterwards. This is why even 0.6 and 0.5 systems are freighter-ganking heavens.

Also, regarding ISK worth, I have been killed in my Fenrir carrying about 250Ms worth of courrier'd assembled ships. Twice. Thus leading me to never fly a freighter between Amarr and Jita ever again.


Evading Concord is an exploit. I would not try this suggestion.

Oh and killmails on your freighter kills would be nice, those kinds of kills are rare. That it has happened to you makes you either very unlucky or there is more to the claim.

Same for the OP, please list the kill. The character you are posting on shows no freighter kills that I can find.

Nevermind OP, found it.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16762872

Flying with a cargo worth over 3.5 billion was...well...not a smart move.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2013-04-10 20:28:50 UTC
BTW March Freighter kills in Deltole.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2682&m=3&y=2013&scl_id=20

1. Look out if Solar are online in system.
2. Lout out if anyone with a last name Hijacker is also in system, these appear to be the Solar alts.
3. Don't carry cargo that is too valuable or double wrapped.

Those 3 things will keep you from getting ganked in Deltole.

No need to monkey with the games coding.

HTH, HAND.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-04-11 01:21:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Aaaaactually they can Just warp off to the nearest safe point and eject their pods, then have someone scoop their hull minutes afterwards. This is why even 0.6 and 0.5 systems are freighter-ganking heavens.

Also, regarding ISK worth, I have been killed in my Fenrir carrying about 250Ms worth of courrier'd assembled ships. Twice. Thus leading me to never fly a freighter between Amarr and Jita ever again.


lmao no this doesn't happen

what you saw was your freighter exploding and the ships warping off

what you didn't see was the ships getting concorded off-grid and the pilots saving themselves the need to pull concord off the gate

you only made the part you didn't see up and fell hilariously off the mark

also you didn't get ganked by 250m worth of ships lmao

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-04-11 01:27:12 UTC
also isn't it now impossible to warp off when you get a GCC

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-04-11 02:50:56 UTC
Viden Anzomi wrote:
shot down with only - 10 catalyst, 4x brutix, ist all

I think that this topic is primarily about gaming mechanisms still maintain that 15 minutes is unfair agro against anyone who caused him (in hisec)


"It only took 14 people to kill me this is BS" - You, 2013
Sixx Spades
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-04-11 04:44:46 UTC
Hi Isaac Skytaker! Guess who's about to become totally useless for hauling. Big smile

Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future.
Powers Sa
#55 - 2013-04-11 05:53:48 UTC
Sixx Spades wrote:
Hi Isaac Skytaker! Guess who's about to become totally useless for hauling. Big smile

This is why posting on EVE-O about breaking fair play is bad good people, of high-sec.
The squeaky wheel gets the VOID L

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Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#56 - 2013-04-11 12:19:56 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

  • Give freighters fitting options so they can add tank and/or agility at the expense of carge...
    • -- In my opinion, this is the Best thing CCP could do... Idiots are idiots, and there will still be plenty of targets to support the emergent game play. At the same time, it gives frieghter pilots the ability to optimize their ship to manage cargo, speed, and tank. Things to be aware of... No highslots... (cyno's cool, but cloaks inappropriate!!)... Midslots as long as no easy MWD-to-warp shenanigans... Give lots of low slots, but balance HP to cargo capacity.... Untanked, freighter EHP ~100k... Fully tanked... freighter cargo should be about 75k m3... Max cargo fits should be less than 1m m3.

  • Alternatives that enhance game play, rather than inhibit it (propose more as you think of them):
    • Decoy Cargo Containers -- Insure your ship, configure it so the suicide gankers think your hauling something valuable... and laugh when they destroy your ship and get nothing...
    Exploding Freight Containers -- If your ship dies, the loot inside these detonate too...
    Smuggler Holds -- Unscannable storage areas for your ship...


    Actually the cargo thing wouldn't be too hard -- set it that a freighter cannot fit "standard" cargohold modules (Expanded Cargohold I, etc), and rather needs an "Expanded General Freight Cargohold I" or something, which gives like 1-2% bonus, and only one can be fit (no rigs). Quick maths show that a max skilled charon will get 1,000,875 m3 at max skills with 2% (so, obviously too big, though 1.9% gets you to 999,893), or 995k at 1.5%.

    The other cans and whatnot are also fun HOWEVER, if we're gonna be adding a smuggler's hold to this (or any) ships, it has to reduce the size of the cargohold. For example, "Smuggler's Hold I" (rig?) creates a hold that's 10% the size of your cargobay, AND reduces your cargobay by 20%.

    All numbers in my post are merely for discussion, and I'm not attached to them in any way (TBH, they're pretty terrible).

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #57 - 2013-04-11 12:22:06 UTC
    Andski wrote:
    Scuzzy Logic wrote:
    Aaaaactually they can Just warp off to the nearest safe point and eject their pods, then have someone scoop their hull minutes afterwards. This is why even 0.6 and 0.5 systems are freighter-ganking heavens.

    Also, regarding ISK worth, I have been killed in my Fenrir carrying about 250Ms worth of courrier'd assembled ships. Twice. Thus leading me to never fly a freighter between Amarr and Jita ever again.


    lmao no this doesn't happen

    what you saw was your freighter exploding and the ships warping off

    what you didn't see was the ships getting concorded off-grid and the pilots saving themselves the need to pull concord off the gate

    you only made the part you didn't see up and fell hilariously off the mark

    also you didn't get ganked by 250m worth of ships lmao


    actually, aren't you insta-pointed soon as you go criminal these days?

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
    Andski
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #58 - 2013-04-11 12:25:01 UTC
    Velicitia wrote:
    actually, aren't you insta-pointed soon as you go criminal these days?


    This was only a recent addition alongside many other nerfs to suicide ganking

    Despite all those nerfs to suicide ganking the freighter pilots just keep getting easier to kill

    Twitter: @EVEAndski

    "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #59 - 2013-04-11 12:27:15 UTC
    Andski wrote:
    Velicitia wrote:
    actually, aren't you insta-pointed soon as you go criminal these days?


    This was only a recent addition alongside many other nerfs to suicide ganking

    Despite all those nerfs to suicide ganking the freighter pilots just keep getting easier to kill


    next expansion after Odyssey
    "EVE Online: Now for WOW Players"

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
    Naomi Knight
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #60 - 2013-04-11 12:56:03 UTC
    Scuzzy Logic wrote:
    Cameron Cahill wrote:
    Viden Anzomi wrote:
    I would like to say one thing. This topic is a reflection on the game mechanics. I'm not against principilen gank mechanics.

    - The second character with web is acceptable tactic, I know her
    - Carry less - ok why not.

    But the purpose of this discussion is to consider the features of this game mechanics, which clearly favors some and harms others. My opinion is that the press should be proportionate to risk. These (gank-pirate) people are safe.

    I apologize for my English.


    The gankers are guarenteed to loose their ships, how is this safe? The only reason its done is because people make it easy, profitable and fun. It is the harderst (and least profitable) it has ever been to kill freighters in highsec. It has ben nerfed repeatedly and it is very easy to avoid. If you die now it is no ones fault but your own so there is no reason for a change in game mechanics.


    Aaaaactually they can Just warp off to the nearest safe point and eject their pods, then have someone scoop their hull minutes afterwards. This is why even 0.6 and 0.5 systems are freighter-ganking heavens.

    Also, regarding ISK worth, I have been killed in my Fenrir carrying about 250Ms worth of courrier'd assembled ships. Twice. Thus leading me to never fly a freighter between Amarr and Jita ever again.

    i dont think that is possible anymore