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Roden Ships

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KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-11 01:06:16 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I always felt that Roden ships should be like fast Minmatar ships only focused on armor rather than shields (minnie does both but leans more towards shields).

Come to think of it, projectile weapons are the only weapon system not shared by at least one other race. It might sound silly, but what if we put autocannons or artillery on Roden ships?

I'm leaning more towards arty, it might be interesting to see arty combined with Gallente ships.

...Wait what?

Hybrid turrets are the only turret that get shared by gallente and caldari, neither projectile turrets or lasers get shared by any of the 4 main factions unless you are counting pirate factions in which case projectile turrets get shared between minmatar and angels so your post still wouldnt make any sense.

So yes, putting projectile turrets on Roden ships DOES sound very silly, not to mention downright impractical as far as skill training goes.

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Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#22 - 2013-04-11 01:35:26 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Is shuffling some tech2 Gallente hulls to use missiles really such a good idea?
  • Do missiles even matter on Roden hulls with a very specific role? (Oneiros, Eris, Lachesis)
  • Can a missile-based Gallente tech2 line even exist without overstepping on other missile lines? (Caldari, Minmatar, Khanid)


Screw missiles. There are enough push-button-to-win hulls already.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-04-11 04:54:34 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I always felt that Roden ships should be like fast Minmatar ships only focused on armor rather than shields (minnie does both but leans more towards shields).

Come to think of it, projectile weapons are the only weapon system not shared by at least one other race. It might sound silly, but what if we put autocannons or artillery on Roden ships?

I'm leaning more towards arty, it might be interesting to see arty combined with Gallente ships.

...Wait what?

Hybrid turrets are the only turret that get shared by gallente and caldari, neither projectile turrets or lasers get shared by any of the 4 main factions unless you are counting pirate factions in which case projectile turrets get shared between minmatar and angels so your post still wouldnt make any sense.

So yes, putting projectile turrets on Roden ships DOES sound very silly, not to mention downright impractical as far as skill training goes.


It is a wildly silly and a possibly (probably) very stupid idea, it's fun to consider though. And derp, forgot about lasers.

And it really isn't impractical. Training minmatar + gallente already allows for Angel ships, so there is already an incentive for a Gallente to consider training projectiles. But hey it is just a dumb idea.

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Jeter Alta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-04-11 05:27:29 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Yes indeed, Roden hulls, and to some other tech2 manufacturers don't make much sense.

We have some high-level plans on how we could potentially fix them once we are done with tech1 hulls. One option could consist in consolidating the Gallente Tech2 manufacturers as:


  • Duvolle: specialization on hybrid turrets
  • Creodron: specialization on drones (which means fixing the Eos and Sin for instance)
  • Roden: specialization on missiles


Obviously, that's to be taken with a grain of salt, as this is no way set in stone and there are still obstacles along the way. For example:


  • Is shuffling some tech2 Gallente hulls to use missiles really such a good idea?
  • Do missiles even matter on Roden hulls with a very specific role? (Oneiros, Eris, Lachesis)
  • Can a missile-based Gallente tech2 line even exist without overstepping on other missile lines? (Caldari, Minmatar, Khanid)


We'll get more opportunities to discuss that with the player base when we actually move to tech2 hull rebalancing.


To address the concerns as the others that have posted on the subject have done is relatively simple.

  • Yes, there should be some shuffling of hulls! Look at the Enyo (clearly used as a blaster boat) and the Nemesis (a DUVOLLE stealth bomber?) There is a big discrepancy in those roles.
  • Yes, missiles matter a whole lot on the Lachesis and the Eris. Another post outlined the usefulness of a capless offense for the Phobos as well, and the Lachesis uses missiles almost to an effective degree even now. The Oneiros, not so much. The Eris is also a rarely used interdictor hull. The number of them used pales in comparison to the Sabre, which is not only used in fleet applications, but in other pvp situations that you do not see the Eris in.
  • Finally, there aren't any toes being stepped on here if you redesign the hulls in the correct ways. Minmatar and Caldari ships are almost exclusively shield tanked when they are utilizing missiles. The Khanid ships are close range ships that are armor tanked. For example, take the dual-rep sacrilege with HAMs. It's mobile (relying on active tanking instead of a buffer), has good dps within its range, and fits its role as a HAC. Roden ships are not exclusively close-range missile boats, so the argument of similarity there is nonexistent. Redesigned Roden hulls with bonuses to long-range missiles are a flavor of their own, among EVERY race. (Armor tank, long range missiles)

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-04-11 05:47:21 UTC
Considering that you've given every other race plenty of drones, and hybrids are shared with caldari,

You are worried that a gallente boat will crowd someone elses ship roles?

wow. you really do hate gallente.

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SilentStryder
#26 - 2013-04-11 06:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: SilentStryder
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Yes indeed, Roden hulls, and to some other tech2 manufacturers don't make much sense.

We have some high-level plans on how we could potentially fix them once we are done with tech1 hulls. One option could consist in consolidating the Gallente Tech2 manufacturers as:


  • Duvolle: specialization on hybrid turrets
  • Creodron: specialization on drones (which means fixing the Eos and Sin for instance)
  • Roden: specialization on missiles


Obviously, that's to be taken with a grain of salt, as this is no way set in stone and there are still obstacles along the way. For example:


  • Is shuffling some tech2 Gallente hulls to use missiles really such a good idea?
  • Do missiles even matter on Roden hulls with a very specific role? (Oneiros, Eris, Lachesis)
  • Can a missile-based Gallente tech2 line even exist without overstepping on other missile lines? (Caldari, Minmatar, Khanid)


We'll get more opportunities to discuss that with the player base when we actually move to tech2 hull rebalancing.


Would sort of be a 180 degree turn but it would be epic if you made Roden Ships or any other Tech 2 Brand specialise in Shield Tanking, it would be the first Tech 2 Ship Brand to do alternate tanks, and there would be its uniqueness too. Besides most Gallente dont want there beloved Gunboats turned into pure Missile Boats like Khanid Ships, even when the state of Hybrids was unhealthy or if it will become so some time in the future...
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#27 - 2013-04-11 09:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Duvolle - Blasters (Second bonus, ROF, third bonus, falloff)
Roden - Railguns (second bonus, optimal, third bonus, damage)
CreoDron - Drones (second bonus, ??, third bonus ??)

?? as I'm not sure what plan/if you guys have a high-level plan, for drones. However, given the recent penchant for sticking drone bonuses on Amarr ships, whatever bonuses you do go for absolutely have to make CreDron ships by far and away superior drone boats to anything else out there (>5 drones controlled perhaps?)

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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-04-11 10:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Raven Solaris wrote:
What always amused me was the mention of poorer electronic systems when Roden put out the tackling interceptor, both interdictors, the logistics and the force recon for the Gallente.

Poor electronics indeed.

Indeed. Maybe special equipment should be made into Roden hat and let us be done with that? The only problem is probably their "shipyards" name which associates less with such thing than, say "Duvolle labs".

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#29 - 2013-04-11 16:28:06 UTC
Make Roden hulls with special ability:

100% increased rate of fire (1 cycle lasts for 2 'normal, unbonused' cycles) to Light Missile, Rapid Light Missile and Heavy Missile Launchers (and maybe Cruise if you plan on adding another Tech 2 Battleship per race).
100% increased bonus to Light and Heavy Missile damage.

Like, dem ALPHAS, but delayed.


Or forget about missiles and do the same or similar with hybrid weapons. Could make them interesting railgun ships (better tracking and dps than proj, with okayish alpha)
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#30 - 2013-04-11 20:02:46 UTC
CCP KittyBoom wrote:

  • Do missiles even matter on Roden hulls with a very specific role? (Oneiros, Eris, Lachesis)


    • The Lachesis should get special mention. Firstly, having missiles or not does matter since the ship is a combat recon fully capable of laying on the hurt. It is not like the oneiros and eris, which can perform their roles excellently without doing any damage at all. Also, this is one ship where the split weapon system is quite good. The ship is viable with a number of highslot configs. It can be optimized for a number of ranges. It can make full use of both kinds of hybrids and all three kinds of launchers, you can even mix blasters with heavies if you want. The variation in fittings usage gives you lots of room to optimize. Taking away the missile slots and leaving rails as the only long range option would make it a distinctly worse ship. Switching it to missiles entirely isn't really necessary either.

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