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R.I.P ORCA?

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Haulie Berry
#21 - 2013-04-08 20:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:



what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian



Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436

Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441

1436 * 3 = 4308
2441 * 2 = 4882

4882 > 4308.

In conclusion:

-A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk.
-You're bad at this game.
-You're bad at math.


yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of ****



It's the per-minute yield, genius - and I was very generous to your position. That's JUST with max skills, T2 strips, and T2 MLUs, and T1 crystals.

Start throwing in implants and T2 crystals and you start looking even more ridiculous.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-04-08 20:05:33 UTC
Domina Trix wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:



what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian



Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436

Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441

1436 * 3 = 4308
2441 * 2 = 4882

4882 > 4308.

In conclusion:

-A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk.
-You're bad at this game.
-You're bad at math.


The boosting orca is only better than the third hulk when the orca and related skills are maxed until that point that orca pilot brings more to the mining operation by flying another hulk.


The general idea of being an Orca pilot is that you have the skills to fly it, and with the new nerf to skill reqs its going to be even easier so really there is no excuse now at all.

Also its like saying it is better to bring a frigate to a fleet battle instead of a capital ship, unless the capital ship pilot has good skills.
Dave Stark
#23 - 2013-04-08 20:05:51 UTC
Domina Trix wrote:
The boosting orca is only better than the third hulk when the orca and related skills are maxed until that point that orca pilot brings more to the mining operation by flying another hulk.


only if the orca pilot is as equally skilled as the other miners which, it won't be as it's training orca skills...

also the training time for max orca pilot skills isn't that long so it's a moot point.
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#24 - 2013-04-08 20:07:00 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:



what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian



Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436

Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441

1436 * 3 = 4308
2441 * 2 = 4882

4882 > 4308.

In conclusion:

-A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk.
-You're bad at this game.
-You're bad at math.


yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of ****



Why are you using the family computer unsupervised? Do your parents know that you're on the internet right now?

Ugh
Gallamoth Sickle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-04-08 20:07:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:



what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian



Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436

Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441

1436 * 3 = 4308
2441 * 2 = 4882

4882 > 4308.

In conclusion:

-A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk.
-You're bad at this game.
-You're bad at math.


yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of ****


1436 isn't even max yield. claiming it's "wrong" is making you sound stupid. please, maths, try it?


um yea thats my point 1436 isnt max yeild so this idot is making a comparison on bad math saying that the orca boosts it way more based on wrong yeild info for the hulk so the poster is completely wrong
Haulie Berry
#26 - 2013-04-08 20:08:04 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:



what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian



Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436

Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441

1436 * 3 = 4308
2441 * 2 = 4882

4882 > 4308.

In conclusion:

-A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk.
-You're bad at this game.
-You're bad at math.


yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of ****


1436 isn't even max yield. claiming it's "wrong" is making you sound stupid. please, maths, try it?


um yea thats my point 1436 isnt max yeild so this idot is making a comparison on bad math saying that the orca boosts it way more based on wrong yeild info for the hulk so the poster is completely wrong



The orca boosts a percentage. Any increase to the Hulk's yield is going to be further magnified by the presence of an Orca. If I add implants and T2 crystals, you're just going to look even more ridiculous.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-04-08 20:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
OP, I think you need to learn how to use EFT properly. It is relatively easy to see what a skilled Orca pilot brings to even a small mining operation, and this is considering simply the mining bonuses alone and not even mentioning all the other added benefits you get with the Orca.
Ai Shun
#28 - 2013-04-08 20:08:45 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:



what you say would be true if your math wasnt false after 2 ships an cora is better than an extra miner? nope try agian



Yield of a hulk with 3 strips and 2 MLU 2s, all 5s - 1436

Yield of the same hulk, max orca boosted - 2441

1436 * 3 = 4308
2441 * 2 = 4882

4882 > 4308.

In conclusion:

-A boosting orca is better than a third Hulk.
-You're bad at this game.
-You're bad at math.


yoru numbers are way wrong 1436 on a hulk is totaly wrong your just making ur self sound good but ur full of ****


Easily solved. You can sell your Orca and buy whatever you like or do whatever you want. Others will continue to get a use for their Orcas. So no problem there and no need to be so rude when somebody is trying to help you.
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#29 - 2013-04-08 20:09:15 UTC
Orca is still very useful ship, although I would agree that the mack' s ore hold and hulk fleet role now has made it imbalanced in its role:


Changes needed:


-Orca:

Orehold 100,000m3

+1 low slot

Remove mining foreman link for cap (useless)

Add Mining forman link- Automated laser deactivation upon roid depletion Big smile


Hulk/coveter:

Role bonus: 5% fleet only yield increase.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-04-08 20:11:03 UTC
The Orca is a great mobile base. When I've tackled a carebear in a mission space and I can't break his tank I can land an Orca and refit to neuts until his cap is dry! It allows me to take my toolkit with me, so I'm much more likely to have the right tool for the job.

I would love a t2 Orca with a larger ship hold, though. Three cruisers and a couple frigs means I have to choose what tools are most important to me *very* carefully, and I would gladly pay extra for a little more space for activities in there.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Gallamoth Sickle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-04-08 20:11:46 UTC

no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-04-08 20:13:07 UTC
celebro wrote:
Orca is still very useful ship, although I would agree that the mack' s ore hold and hulk fleet role now has made it imbalanced in its role:


Changes needed:


-Orca:

Orehold 100,000m3

+1 low slot

Remove mining foreman link for cap (useless)

Add Mining forman link- Automated laser deactivation upon roid depletion Big smile


Hulk/coveter:

Role bonus: 5% fleet only yield increase.



Shameful attempt to ask for even more buffs to an otherwise already great ship ^ :)

And feel lucky that your getting all of this for only a mere 14 days training now unlike those of us who did the hard slog to train it up under the current regime.

The cheek of these young ones complaining, they don't know how easy they have it these days. :)
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-04-08 20:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:

no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know


Geez, do you actually mine at all? Of course the Orca pilot is going to have the mining foreman link, kind of defeats the whole purpose of having the fleet boosts if you don't use the relevant implant and only train your fleet skills to level 1.

Also the effect of the mining link implant far exceeds the benefit of even every hulk pilot in the fleet fitted with the most expensive mining implants.
Dave Stark
#34 - 2013-04-08 20:15:09 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
um yea thats my point 1436 isnt max yeild so this idot is making a comparison on bad math saying that the orca boosts it way more based on wrong yeild info for the hulk so the poster is completely wrong


considering orcas are % based, not absolute based, it's irrelevant whether it's max yield or not.

do you understand how maths works?
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#35 - 2013-04-08 20:18:29 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
celebro wrote:
Orca is still very useful ship, although I would agree that the mack' s ore hold and hulk fleet role now has made it imbalanced in its role:


Changes needed:


-Orca:

Orehold 100,000m3

+1 low slot

Remove mining foreman link for cap (useless)

Add Mining forman link- Automated laser deactivation upon roid depletion Big smile


Hulk/coveter:

Role bonus: 5% fleet only yield increase.



Shameful attempt to ask for even more buffs to an otherwise already great ship ^ :)

And feel lucky that your getting all of this for only a mere 14 days training now unlike those of us who did the hard slog to train it up under the current regime.

The cheek of these young ones complaining, they don't know how easy they have it these days. :)


lol young ones, check when I joined eve.. trololol 3/4 hulk should be better than a 3/4 macks in fleet . You know you get a fleet bonus for macks in fleet, why?
Haulie Berry
#36 - 2013-04-08 20:19:18 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:

no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know



You want all in? Fine. We'll go all in.

All 5 skills, 2x MLU II, 3 modulated strips, 5 mining drones, T2 mining crystals, Michi's, and MX-1005 yield: 2111

With a max skill pilot in another Hulk acting as FC: 2282

That, plus an orca yields: 3305

2282 * 3 = 6846
3305 * 2 = 6610 + 312 (because if you're going to be a **** about it, the Orca can field a flight of drones too): 6922

6922 > 6846.

In conclusion:

You're still bad at this game.
You're still bad at math.
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-04-08 20:19:30 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:

no im not cause what your doing in your math is figuring implants and mining directer on the orca side but not on the hulk side well a hulk pilot can give some of those same basic leader boosts to his squad that your figurering for orca and not hulk squad leader so your still wrong and the fact that you cant type out the math equation to prove it makes me think your more wrong than you know


Geez, do you actually mine at all? Of course the Orca pilot is going to have the mining foreman link, kind of defeats the whole purpose of having the fleet boosts if you don't use the relevant implant and only train your fleet skills to level 1.

Also the effect of the mining link implant far exceeds the benefit of even every hulk pilot in the fleet fitted with the most expensive mining implants.

He's trolling you pretty good though. So, yeah, he mines. :)
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
gold fever
#38 - 2013-04-08 20:21:00 UTC
Given the following cases:

Case 1:

Fleet of miners with no leadership skills, Max Orca boost is 1.15/(1-.3234) or 170%

Case 2:

Fleet of miners with Max leadership skills, Max Orca gives boost of 1.05/(1-.3234) or 155%

Case 3:

Fleet of miners with Max leadership and mindlink, Max Orca boost is 1/(1-.3234)or or 148%


So the only case where 3 miners are better than 2wicked miners and a Orca is case 3 and you would have to be stupid to train all those skills and buy the implant and not use an Orca.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-04-08 20:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
The orca is amazing, if you don't think so then you don't really understand how ridiculous it is.

The orca is a fleet multiplier. Using the Laser Optimization II and the Mining Laser Field Enhancement II gang links you're being a huge force multiplier for your fleet. The extra range allows your ships to mine near the orca so they can deposit the ore directly into the fleet hanger, which saves a lot of time for haulers. But the math for the reduced cycle times is a lot more important.

If you have maxed orca skill, leadership skills, and have the mining foreman mindlink your cycle time is -32%. That's almost a 1/3rd reduction in cycle time, which amounts to a ~47% increase in mining yield by itself. The mindlink also increases your mining yield bonus from leadership skills from 10% to 15%, which adds an extra 4% to each miner. Added together this results in ~54% added yield per miner, so if you fly with 2 or more barges the orca bonuses bring in more yield than an additional barge.

But wait, there's more! If you're hardcore you can get the siege leadership gang link skills and add a shield harmonizing gang link II to give your fleet even more EHP. If gankers are motivated enough they can bring more people, but it does offer a nice chunk of survivability against ganks.

But wait, there's more! The orca also serves as a mini-freighter that's less susceptible to ganks, so you can haul your refined material to a trade hub.

edit: 1436 is the max yield per strip miner per cycle on a max yield hulk (2 MLU + 3 modulated strip miner II's). I think that number is using tech 1 mining crystals though, but this is also no implants. It can go higher of course, but it doesn't matter as the orca gives % based bonuses. A noob miner and a bittervet miner get the same % increase regardless of their base yield.

tl;dr
Once you mine with an orca you don't know how you ever mined without one. They're f-ing amazing at what they do.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-04-08 20:22:35 UTC
Gallamoth Sickle wrote:
I used to have an orca then i took an arrow to the knee.
Now, after i got that out of the way ...
... i'll read the rest of your post.