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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1701 - 2013-04-12 12:26:45 UTC
Johnny Aideron wrote:
CCP have you considered swapping the roles between the Hyperion and Megathron for aesthetic and symbolic reasons? The relatively sleek looking Hyperion seems much more fitting as an attack battleship, while the Megathron looks more like a lumbering behemoth that would go toe to toe with an Abbadon.

An alternative:

Megathron: combat battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% tracking per level
7500 / 8000 / 8500
more capacitor, reduction in speed and agility, more CPU
slot: 8/4/7, 7 turrets
dronebay 125/150

It becomes a fleet brawler with more inbuilt ehp instead of an 8th low (no more jealous amarrians!) or versatile small gang BS with drones and utility high. Fits aesthetically with it's large bulk and visible dronebay.

Hyperion: attack battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% reps per level
6300/ 6500 / 7500
increase in speed and agility, stats adjusted (nerfed) to attack role
slot: 8/5/6, 8 turrets
dronebay 75/75

Yes, give them both a rate if fire bonus! It offsets the low amount of lowslots. With an increase in speed and the retention of it's 5th mid slot, the Hyperion can be fitted as an agile shield ganker or fast active armour tanker, using nano pump rigs rather than the trimarks that would cause the Megathron to perform poorly as a fast BS. It doesn't end up wasting a hull bonus in fleet fights it isn't designed for and remains the small scale ganker/tanker it is clearly meant to be. It looks more the part, since it's kinda like a larger Thorax aesthetically and in terms of being fast for it's class and being able to both shield and armour tank.

You could even just give Gallente three combat battleships.

This would make a lot of sense, eventhough I think the perfect Megathron layout would be 7/5/7.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1702 - 2013-04-12 12:34:45 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Johnny Aideron wrote:
CCP have you considered swapping the roles between the Hyperion and Megathron for aesthetic and symbolic reasons? The relatively sleek looking Hyperion seems much more fitting as an attack battleship, while the Megathron looks more like a lumbering behemoth that would go toe to toe with an Abbadon.

An alternative:

Megathron: combat battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% tracking per level
7500 / 8000 / 8500
more capacitor, reduction in speed and agility, more CPU
slot: 8/4/7, 7 turrets
dronebay 125/150

It becomes a fleet brawler with more inbuilt ehp instead of an 8th low (no more jealous amarrians!) or versatile small gang BS with drones and utility high. Fits aesthetically with it's large bulk and visible dronebay.

Hyperion: attack battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% reps per level
6300/ 6500 / 7500
increase in speed and agility, stats adjusted (nerfed) to attack role
slot: 8/5/6, 8 turrets
dronebay 75/75

Yes, give them both a rate if fire bonus! It offsets the low amount of lowslots. With an increase in speed and the retention of it's 5th mid slot, the Hyperion can be fitted as an agile shield ganker or fast active armour tanker, using nano pump rigs rather than the trimarks that would cause the Megathron to perform poorly as a fast BS. It doesn't end up wasting a hull bonus in fleet fights it isn't designed for and remains the small scale ganker/tanker it is clearly meant to be. It looks more the part, since it's kinda like a larger Thorax aesthetically and in terms of being fast for it's class and being able to both shield and armour tank.

You could even just give Gallente three combat battleships.

This would make a lot of sense, eventhough I think the perfect Megathron layout would be 7/5/7.


I don't find the swap a bad idea. However, 7 slots for a combat ship, that needs to fit other things than guns (reverse that an attack role) I find it's kind of not enough. Combat = 8 slots (defenders, neut, nos, drone mods) / Attack = 7 slots

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
William R Blake
We Did A Thing
Probably Up to No Good
#1703 - 2013-04-12 12:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: William R Blake
Phoenix Torp wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Johnny Aideron wrote:
CCP have you considered swapping the roles between the Hyperion and Megathron for aesthetic and symbolic reasons? The relatively sleek looking Hyperion seems much more fitting as an attack battleship, while the Megathron looks more like a lumbering behemoth that would go toe to toe with an Abbadon.

An alternative:

Megathron: combat battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% tracking per level
7500 / 8000 / 8500
more capacitor, reduction in speed and agility, more CPU
slot: 8/4/7, 7 turrets
dronebay 125/150

It becomes a fleet brawler with more inbuilt ehp instead of an 8th low (no more jealous amarrians!) or versatile small gang BS with drones and utility high. Fits aesthetically with it's large bulk and visible dronebay.

Hyperion: attack battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% reps per level
6300/ 6500 / 7500
increase in speed and agility, stats adjusted (nerfed) to attack role
slot: 8/5/6, 8 turrets
dronebay 75/75

Yes, give them both a rate if fire bonus! It offsets the low amount of lowslots. With an increase in speed and the retention of it's 5th mid slot, the Hyperion can be fitted as an agile shield ganker or fast active armour tanker, using nano pump rigs rather than the trimarks that would cause the Megathron to perform poorly as a fast BS. It doesn't end up wasting a hull bonus in fleet fights it isn't designed for and remains the small scale ganker/tanker it is clearly meant to be. It looks more the part, since it's kinda like a larger Thorax aesthetically and in terms of being fast for it's class and being able to both shield and armour tank.

You could even just give Gallente three combat battleships.

This would make a lot of sense, eventhough I think the perfect Megathron layout would be 7/5/7.


I don't find the swap a bad idea. However, 7 slots for a combat ship, that needs to fit other things than guns (reverse that an attack role) I find it's kind of not enough. Combat = 8 slots (defenders, neut, nos, drone mods) / Attack = 7 slots



Please CCP listen to this guy, hes got EVERYTHING right, the aesthetic, the slots layout. If u think about it, Hyperion even got the High velocity helmsman for the recommended cert training which means ; its an attack ship! Please i beg u CCP , Please do it like Johnny Aideron said!
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#1704 - 2013-04-12 12:51:48 UTC
Dominix:

With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones. It will of course also be stronger at short range using heavy drones. As a combat battleship, its received increased hitpoints across the board, increased mass (it got its mass lowered during the hybrid buff), increased cap pool, and increased sig.

We believe this is a very exciting direction for the Dominix, and hope you will too!

I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones – no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)



Dominix:
The roles should change for this battleship, I do agree to the fact the bonuses should be done by drones! But I think it's time we add a new role allowing it to man nothing but drones! Each level of Gen battleship trained of would give you +1 extra drone. As well with it's limited mount of bandwidth and cargo hold. This can be easy done, and would be a nice change in the game to see more of this time of roles be played/ Their are great counters to this with use of smart-bombs and or just shoot the drones them self. So here the status i would like this battleship become.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+1 extra control able drone per level
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 0 turrets , 0 launchers ( No Turrent as drones would make up the damage)
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1705 - 2013-04-12 12:53:22 UTC
Phoenix Torp wrote:
I don't find the swap a bad idea. However, 7 slots for a combat ship, that needs to fit other things than guns (reverse that an attack role) I find it's kind of not enough. Combat = 8 slots (defenders, neut, nos, drone mods) / Attack = 7 slots
I'm not sure about that. Combat BS or not, it's still a gallente BS, and a mid slot should be enough for utility. With 8 high slot you are also relegated to 8/4/7, like the old Mega.

The more I thinkto everything, and the more I like the first proposal. :-(
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1706 - 2013-04-12 12:55:12 UTC
androch wrote:
the domi model looks too ugly i know some people like that giant turd look but not all of us please update its appearance to look like the carrier youve turned it into


Going to agree with this heavily. Allot of the models in this game need revamps for two major reasons. 1. Because they looking ******* ugly and stoopid, 2. Because their roles have changed and the models should reflect what the ship is geared towards. For example, the Geddon is now becoming a drone ship, It should have modeled drone bays much like the new destroyer lineup have.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1707 - 2013-04-12 12:57:08 UTC
BEPOHNKA wrote:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+1 extra control able drone per level

Forget it IMO. This feature have been removed in the past because of server overload ; nowadays, only cap ships have more than 5 drones, and during cap fights, its a mess (server performances wise) largely because of the swarms of fighter bombers motherships launch.
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1708 - 2013-04-12 12:58:56 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Phoenix Torp wrote:
I don't find the swap a bad idea. However, 7 slots for a combat ship, that needs to fit other things than guns (reverse that an attack role) I find it's kind of not enough. Combat = 8 slots (defenders, neut, nos, drone mods) / Attack = 7 slots
I'm not sure about that. Combat BS or not, it's still a gallente BS, and a mid slot should be enough for utility. With 8 high slot you are also relegated to 8/4/7, like the old Mega.

The more I thinkto everything, and the more I like the first proposal. :-(


Not all the utility modules go to mid slots. That the reason why exist utility high slots, and they are actually "useful" (depending on the personal preference for every capsuleer and the situation) modules. Not putting utility high slots you sacrifice DPS. I think it's the more reasonable approach, as attack is, as the word says, attack; and combat is attack + other things. It's the reason why I see attack = 7 and combat = 8.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1709 - 2013-04-12 13:02:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Torp
Askulf Joringer wrote:
androch wrote:
the domi model looks too ugly i know some people like that giant turd look but not all of us please update its appearance to look like the carrier youve turned it into


Going to agree with this heavily. Allot of the models in this game need revamps for two major reasons. 1. Because they looking ******* ugly and stoopid, 2. Because their roles have changed and the models should reflect what the ship is geared towards. For example, the Geddon is now becoming a drone ship, It should have modeled drone bays much like the new destroyer lineup have.


I have stated my opinion previously. However, it's fair that if a great part of the community (be careful, I have said community, not the posters of this thread) think it's ugly to think in change his look. However, I would like to point out other ship that need more love that this one: Have someone of you seen a Raven!?

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1710 - 2013-04-12 13:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
Irya Boone wrote:
And Why One of The gallente Battleship don't have any electronics Warfare Bonus like scorpion or Armageddon ??

Why do you hate gallente so much? or is it that you don't understand it?


This issue would be covered if the Domi were to get + drone bandwidth... or the less controversial + all drone functionality including EWAR and logi drones (which would accomplish a similar goal).

I think CCP Rise doesn't understand that drone capability is about versatility and the iconic drone ship should represent that.

Instead, we are moving from versatility to pigeon-hole role.

Heck I even noticed with the missile slots on the geddon, it makes a better progression ship to training towards a Rattlesnake... barring the Amarr ship training of course.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1711 - 2013-04-12 13:05:37 UTC
Suggested dominix model rework: http://i.imgur.com/Tj7OiJp.jpg
Phoenix Torp
Almost Absolute
#1712 - 2013-04-12 13:07:37 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Suggested dominix model rework: http://i.imgur.com/Tj7OiJp.jpg


You only want that shape to make think the enemies you have a Nyx :P

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Phoenix_Torp
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1713 - 2013-04-12 13:07:49 UTC
Askulf Joringer wrote:
androch wrote:
the domi model looks too ugly i know some people like that giant turd look but not all of us please update its appearance to look like the carrier youve turned it into


Going to agree with this heavily. Allot of the models in this game need revamps for two major reasons. 1. Because they looking ******* ugly and stoopid, 2. Because their roles have changed and the models should reflect what the ship is geared towards. For example, the Geddon is now becoming a drone ship, It should have modeled drone bays much like the new destroyer lineup have.


The issue is primarily CCP getting us addicted ever since the new mega/tempest/stabber hulls :S
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1714 - 2013-04-12 13:10:47 UTC
Marxzo Andoun wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
And Why One of The gallente Battleship don't have any electronics Warfare Bonus like scorpion or Armageddon ??

Why do you hate gallente so much? or is it that you don't understand it?


This issue would be covered if the Domi were to get + drone bandwidth... or the less controversial + all drone functionality including EWAR and logi drones (which would accomplish a similar goal).

I think CCP Rise does understand that drone capability is about versatility and the iconic drone ship should represent that.

Instead, we are moving from versatility to pigeon-hole role.

Heck I even noticed with the missile slots on the geddon, it makes a better progression ship to training towards a Rattlesnake... barring the Amarr ship training of course.

At this point the Amarr line up is geared toward better progression than the Gallente line up.
Most Amarr drone ships get a bonus to Energy neutralizers, which happen to have the same prerequisite skill as energy transfers which the Archon gets a bonus to.
The Gallente line up, while it has its strengths, takes a sharp turn after the Vexor and kinda goes where ever and then takes another big twist on the way to the Thanatos, as the only thing it has in common with its sub cap cousins is the drone aspect.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1715 - 2013-04-12 13:18:58 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:


The issue is primarily CCP getting us addicted ever since the new mega/tempest/stabber hulls :S


I don't know if I'd blame ccp for getting us addicted. If anything the models in this game should have been updated years and years ago. Eve use to be a game that stood out graphically within the entire industry. Now it looks dated and rather bleh. Texture res are bad on models as well as the "star back drop".
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1716 - 2013-04-12 13:24:18 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
BEPOHNKA wrote:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+1 extra control able drone per level

Forget it IMO. This feature have been removed in the past because of server overload ; nowadays, only cap ships have more than 5 drones, and during cap fights, its a mess (server performances wise) largely because of the swarms of fighter bombers motherships launch.

I don't think I would mind carriers and super carriers the sub cap drone treatment.
Remove DCUs, change Advanced Drone Interfacing to +20% Fighter and Fighter Bomber damage per level
Carrier Hull remove +1 Drone per level add +10% Drone and Fighter Damage and HP per Level
Super Carrier Remove +3 Fighter and Fighter Bomber per level, Add +30% Fighter and Fighter Bomber Damage Per Level

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1717 - 2013-04-12 13:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Johnny Aideron wrote:
CCP have you considered swapping the roles between the Hyperion and Megathron for aesthetic and symbolic reasons? The relatively sleek looking Hyperion seems much more fitting as an attack battleship, while the Megathron looks more like a lumbering behemoth that would go toe to toe with an Abbadon.

An alternative:

Megathron: combat battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% tracking per level
7500 / 8000 / 8500
more capacitor, reduction in speed and agility, more CPU
slot: 8/4/7, 7 turrets
dronebay 125/150

It becomes a fleet brawler with more inbuilt ehp instead of an 8th low (no more jealous amarrians!) or versatile small gang BS with drones and utility high. Fits aesthetically with it's large bulk and visible dronebay.

Hyperion: attack battleship
5% rate of fire and 7.5% reps per level
6300/ 6500 / 7500
increase in speed and agility, stats adjusted (nerfed) to attack role
slot: 8/5/6, 8 turrets
dronebay 75/75

Yes, give them both a rate of fire bonus! It offsets the low amount of lowslots. With an increase in speed and the retention of it's 5th mid slot, the Hyperion can be fitted as an agile shield ganker or fast active armour tanker, using nano pump rigs rather than the trimarks that would cause the Megathron to perform poorly as a fast BS. It doesn't end up wasting a hull bonus in fleet fights it isn't designed for and remains the small scale ganker/tanker it is clearly meant to be. It looks more the part, since it's kinda like a larger Thorax aesthetically and in terms of being fast for it's class and being able to both shield and armour tank.

You could even just give Gallente three combat battleships.


Plus, can somebody tell me what an armour tanking, turret fitted dominix is meant to do with 5 midslots? You won't need those mids for omnidirectional tracking links due to the hull bonus. So you should consider giving the Dominix -1 mid and then an extra high so that it can fit a drone link augmentor on top of it's guns or an extra low for more tank and gank. Plus some extra base targeting range. Or just give the Dominix a different hull bonus and let players make a choice about whether to use their mids on omnidirectionals.


I like the idea of swapping the roles. Some gripes with your ideas however:

If the Mega is getting swapped to Combat, it cannot have 8 lows. The HP bonus is basically giving it a free plate, so it would be downright broken. 8 lows allows the Attack Mega iteration to fix its extremely low base stats via a second plate. So I agree with putting its lows back at 7.

However, I feel a better layout would be 8 / 4 / 7 (8 turrets) or 7 / 5 / 7 (7 turrets) if it is reworked into Combat. Utility highs only matter in one role, and are a wasted slot in every other role (PvE, fleets, anything outside 25km). Combat BSes are very focused into fleets and PvE, moreso than gangs. They are built around their guns and tank, with little else thrown in. It would of course need a CPU boost, no matter what happens, and if set up for 8 turrets, probably reverted to the old straight damage bonus alongside the usual boost in PG + CPU to support 8 turrets.

Regarding the Hyperion reworked into Attack - I disagree fundamentally with the 8/5/6 layout. As I've covered so many times in this thread, it is fundamentally flawed and does not permit a good buffer at all. Coupled with the HP reduction, buffer Hyperions would simply be impossible. The only options would be gank or active armor. This limits the ship far too much.

I like the idea of a 6 turret Hyperion with a utility high for a lot of reasons. It lets the ship have a 7 / 5 / 7 layout, which opens up buffer tanks and gives the ship a utility high. This is a smaller scale focused ship, with its active rep bonus etc, which will only be strengthened if roles are swapped. It opens up a lot of PG and CPU previously tied up in guns. And it decreases turret capacitor consumption, meaning those crazy triple / dual rep setups are just that little extra bit better.

All in all, I like the idea of swapping the roles, the two fits certainly seem designed for the opposite roles. I just disagree with the details you're proposing.
Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
#1718 - 2013-04-12 13:35:22 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:

If the Mega is getting swapped to Combat, it cannot have 8 lows. The HP bonus is basically giving it a free plate, so it would be downright broken. 8 lows allows the Assault Mega iteration to fix its extremely low base stats via a second plate.


Check again, my proposal has 7 lows.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1719 - 2013-04-12 13:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Johnny Aideron wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:

If the Mega is getting swapped to Combat, it cannot have 8 lows. The HP bonus is basically giving it a free plate, so it would be downright broken. 8 lows allows the Assault Mega iteration to fix its extremely low base stats via a second plate.


Check again, my proposal has 7 lows.


Read the next paragraph. I also clarified the first that I'm not disagreeing on this, I'm bringing it up before mentioning why 8 / 4 / 7 with 7 turrets is not the ideal layout.
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1720 - 2013-04-12 13:39:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Marxzo Andoun wrote:

Heck I even noticed with the missile slots on the geddon, it makes a better progression ship to training towards a Rattlesnake... barring the Amarr ship training of course.

At this point the Amarr line up is geared toward better progression than the Gallente line up.
Most Amarr drone ships get a bonus to Energy neutralizers, which happen to have the same prerequisite skill as energy transfers which the Archon gets a bonus to.
The Gallente line up, while it has its strengths, takes a sharp turn after the Vexor and kinda goes where ever and then takes another big twist on the way to the Thanatos, as the only thing it has in common with its sub cap cousins is the drone aspect.


I suppose, though with an 11 day train on large T2 neuts it's not exactly progression training. More like something you stick in your queue cause it's silly not to.

Large T2 missile systems take a month just to be able to slap it on your ship and another couple of weeks to months depending on how decent you want to be a blapping stuff with them.