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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#141 - 2013-04-08 17:14:59 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Hyperion:

The Hyperion in a tight spot. We can acknowledge that for the moment active armor tanking is struggling to find a place. We know that many of you would be happier to have the Hyperion lose this bonus and pick up something more practical in today's Eve. However, we're committed to helping armor find its place, and so, to keep continuity with the rest of the Gallente line-up, the Hyp will keep its current bonuses.

It will be gaining a low slot (giving up a mid), hopefully making its purpose as a pure brawler more realistic.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret damage
+7.5% Armor Repair amount

Slot layout: 8H, 4M(-1), 7L(+1); 8 turrets , 0 launchers(-1)
Fittings: 15750 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7500 / 8000 / 8500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 7200 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 485


I highly dislike losing the ability to dual cap boost, fit a SeBo, fit an ECCM, fit a Disruptor+Scram+Web, fit dual web, and many other things. Yes, the lack of a low slot hurts, but damn man.

Quote:

Megathron:

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 6L(-1); 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 16000 PWG(+500), 550 CPU(+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-25) / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)


You didn't need to go quite this far in changing the Mega to be an attack battleship. Lower the sig a bit, increase the speed a bit, increase the CPU a bit to help out some long standing problems. Straight

Quote:

Dominix:

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)


What... no. Just, no.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#142 - 2013-04-08 17:15:02 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.

There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.

Thanks for the feedback



But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.

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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#143 - 2013-04-08 17:15:26 UTC
BarryBonez wrote:
So then you wonder when sitting still isnt a big deal... camping? Well your sig res is so ****** that you can't lock anything quick enough to fire a shot, so maybe you end up just assigning them to a frig or something.

Assign drones to your tackle.
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Spaceship Bebop
#144 - 2013-04-08 17:17:15 UTC
Grendell wrote:
But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.

I have to say that the Gallente (faction) cruiser and below lineup is very strong after the current rebalance. Myrm engagement envelope is swallowed up by the Prophecy (but the only regular BC I see in low sec now is the Prophecy), but otherwise it has been good so far.

Kobea Thris
Inquisition FiS Division
#145 - 2013-04-08 17:17:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
What should the Hyperion be used for?


The only thing the hyp ever seemed to do very well, was brawl at close range using a decent dual rep(or sometimes tripple rep) tank. It did it solo SOMETIMES, but usually the lack of utility high and lack of projection/application bonus made that difficult, so more often it was used in small gangs as a heavy brawler that would be supported by some other ships providing extra tackle so that it could focus on tank and gank. I think it was used at least as often for a shield tanked version that just focused on putting out damage, again with some support to provide supplemental tackle.

Moving the slot layout this way would hopefully reinforce performance around its bonus for armor repping. It would likely have to run 2 injectors, as it did before, and give up a piece of tackle. Since its primary purpose was not to tackle, but to absorb damage and dish it out, the low seemed more useful.



I think the problem with this is that you have a razor thin margin for where this is actually useful. The more the gang size on both sides increases, the worse the active rep bonus becomes. If the Hyperion is meant to be a fleet ship, then the rep bonus isn't very useful. If it is meant to be a solo/small gang ship, then it needs the midslots to help round out the gang.

.

Johnny Debt
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-04-08 17:18:23 UTC
Please leave the Dominix's bonuses what they are and don't change them. I believe the ship would be well balanced with just the increases to shield/armor/structure HP and fitting buffs.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#147 - 2013-04-08 17:19:35 UTC
OMFG! that dominix! *-* Talk about drone firepower! give cant remove 1 high and add 1 more low tho?
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#148 - 2013-04-08 17:21:27 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus?


Because nobody will fit non-bonused large hybrids on it.

.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-04-08 17:21:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Dominix:

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 9000 PWG, 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)


What... no. Just, no.

-Liang

It would be quite viable if it gets a role bonus to drone control range. If it doesn't then it will be total crap.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#150 - 2013-04-08 17:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
Quote:
But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.


I can tell you from looking at internal metrics that this simply isn't true. For instance, for the last 5 days - the Hyperion has literally done the most combat damage to other player ships (for a tech 1 bs). The MOST. Now there may be a weird reason for this (I imagine its something to do with shield tanked ones on station undocks), but the point is that such a general declaration is unfounded.

It would be more helpful to hear about what use it ought to be filling, and in what way its falling short. My expectation for the Hyperion was that it generally would be wanting to tank and gank as much as possible, and that self-reliance for utility was secondary. What I'm hearing is that people want it to be more self reliant. If you can add to the discussion in more specific ways I would be happy to hear it.

@ccp_rise

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#151 - 2013-04-08 17:23:13 UTC
Helicity Boson wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
And along with this, why do you need 5 mids to fit 2 cap injectors?


Because you *need*
1) point
2) web
3) prop mod
4+5) two injectors

...for your Hyperion not to be even more awful than it already is.

And I'm pretty sure anyone that PVPs and can count on five fingers could have figured this out for you.


Hell, i would almost rather they move a low slot to a mid slot, so I can fit that + eccm.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2013-04-08 17:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Roime wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus?


Because nobody will fit non-bonused large hybrids on it.

that is there choice, the fittings are still setup for hybrids, without the bonus to hybrid damage it gives it the options for anything in the high slots and not having half the ships bonuses unused by using neuts, RR, or a different turret.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#153 - 2013-04-08 17:23:51 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.


I can tell you from looking at internal metrics that this simply isn't true. For instance, for the last 5 days - the Hyperion has literally done the most combat damage to other player ships (for a tech 1 bs). The MOST. Now there may be a weird reason for this (I imagine its something to do with shield tanked ones on station undocks), but the point is that such a general declaration is unfounded.

It would be more helpful to hear about what use it ought to be filling, and in what way its falling short. My expectation for the Hyperion was that it generally would be wanting to tank and gank as much as possible, and that self-reliance for utility was secondary. What I'm hearing is that people want it to be more self reliant. If you can add to the discussion in more specific ways I would be happy to hear it.


Your metrics are fine. your interpretation of the metrics is deeply flawed.
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2013-04-08 17:24:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.

There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.

Thanks for the feedback


What is there to talk over? Any push back coming from you and the balance team about the nearly 100% unanimous feedback given by the community about the proposed hype changes are rooted solely in the ego driven hierarchy of opinion that has infected development teams since the beginning of gaming. It's a case of "we know better than you because we're the devs" While this mindset may often be correct in younger games, the team that is currently "rebalancing" eve is far younger and has far less play experience than the veteran players that have stuck with this game in many cases for 9-10 years.

The simple fact is that the proposed changes to the hype fore·go any resemblance of logic.



Also... Your change from 5% to 4% on the resistance bonus needs to be carried over to EVERY hull in eve, not simply Battleships.
fukier
Brave Collective
#155 - 2013-04-08 17:24:54 UTC
this is what i would do to the hype:

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret damage
+7.5% Armor Repair amount and reduction in armor repair cap usage per level

Slot layout: 8H, 4M(-1), 7L(+1); 7 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers(-1)
Fittings: 17000 PWG (+1250), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7500 / 8000 / 8500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 7200 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 485


this would let the hype still get full damage plus give it a utility high slot and make it much easier to fix large blasters and give it the ability to use internal reps and be more cap stable.


At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#156 - 2013-04-08 17:27:05 UTC
Quote:
Your metrics are fine. your interpretation of the metrics is deeply flawed.


Care to shed any light?

@ccp_rise

Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#157 - 2013-04-08 17:27:11 UTC
Roime wrote:
Fredric Wolf wrote:
I like the changes to the Mega and the Domi. I really hope the Domi changes transfer over to the Ishtar.


Hell no, do you realize that Domi lost 50% of it's dps, and got nothing in exchange?


I have seen the insane fits that allowed the Domi to put out 1500+ DPS yes. Now it will be down around 1000~1100 DPS which is a good spot for it IMO.
fukier
Brave Collective
#158 - 2013-04-08 17:27:20 UTC
Roime wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus?


Because nobody will fit non-bonused large hybrids on it.


who said you had to use hybrids?

you can use auto cannons or nuets... or RR... the ship has lots of fitting possibilities...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#159 - 2013-04-08 17:28:04 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.


I can tell you from looking at internal metrics that this simply isn't true. For instance, for the last 5 days - the Hyperion has literally done the most combat damage to other player ships (for a tech 1 bs). The MOST. Now there may be a weird reason for this (I imagine its something to do with shield tanked ones on station undocks), but the point is that such a general declaration is unfounded.

It would be more helpful to hear about what use it ought to be filling, and in what way its falling short. My expectation for the Hyperion was that it generally would be wanting to tank and gank as much as possible, and that self-reliance for utility was secondary. What I'm hearing is that people want it to be more self reliant. If you can add to the discussion in more specific ways I would be happy to hear it.


Why would you fly a rep bonused BS when you have support? If you have support, just use a megathron and press whatever button you have bound to "broadcast for armor"
luredivino
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#160 - 2013-04-08 17:28:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.


I can tell you from looking at internal metrics that this simply isn't true. For instance, for the last 5 days - the Hyperion has literally done the most combat damage to other player ships (for a tech 1 bs). The MOST. Now there may be a weird reason for this (I imagine its something to do with shield tanked ones on station undocks), but the point is that such a general declaration is unfounded.

It would be more helpful to hear about what use it ought to be filling, and in what way its falling short. My expectation for the Hyperion was that it generally would be wanting to tank and gank as much as possible, and that self-reliance for utility was secondary. What I'm hearing is that people want it to be more self reliant. If you can add to the discussion in more specific ways I would be happy to hear it.



The hyperion changes are fine. It follows the gallente pvp doctrine of in the fact and high damage. The problem people are having is that active armor repair takes too much cap and requires 2 cap boosters to keep from getting rofld by cap drain.

If you want the dominix changes to not be so severe, it needs extra grid and a bonus to drone control range.