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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1481 - 2013-04-11 07:58:13 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Where is my single-repped kiting mega? There it is! \o/

Leave those 8 lows! I want to slap a MWD on and show some people how you can kite in a active-armor-tanked battleship once there is a nano and an overdrive fitted! Though I'd willingly neglect one of the turret highs for yet another mid, needs two webs :P


I see the words kite, nano, battleship and web describing the same ship, with blasters implied. Can i have your dealer's name?
Moretic
Casual Slackers
#1482 - 2013-04-11 08:00:49 UTC
zerquse wrote:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

I think this would be better:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone MWD Speed and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

so all drones get a buff, not just sentrys


all drones DO get a buff with optimal and tracking...
Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#1483 - 2013-04-11 08:23:39 UTC
The Hyperion is slightly better... For mission running.

The rest of it looks rather bad honestly.Straight
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1484 - 2013-04-11 08:26:01 UTC
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
The Hyperion is slightly better... For mission running.

The rest of it looks rather bad honestly.Straight


Freed CPU / PG from less turrets, minimal base DPS lost, and an extra low.

It is better in pretty much every single application.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1485 - 2013-04-11 08:32:50 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Where is my single-repped kiting mega? There it is! \o/

Leave those 8 lows! I want to slap a MWD on and show some people how you can kite in a active-armor-tanked battleship once there is a nano and an overdrive fitted! Though I'd willingly neglect one of the turret highs for yet another mid, needs two webs :P


I see the words kite, nano, battleship and web describing the same ship, with blasters implied. Can i have your dealer's name?



Don't need special drugs. Besides Exile.

Anyways, if it makes 2km/s, has a long point, large blasters with Null and a web, I'll use it to kite >:)
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1486 - 2013-04-11 08:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Where is my single-repped kiting mega? There it is! \o/

Leave those 8 lows! I want to slap a MWD on and show some people how you can kite in a active-armor-tanked battleship once there is a nano and an overdrive fitted! Though I'd willingly neglect one of the turret highs for yet another mid, needs two webs :P


I see the words kite, nano, battleship and web describing the same ship, with blasters implied. Can i have your dealer's name?



Don't need special drugs. Besides Exile.

Anyways, if it makes 2km/s, has a long point, large blasters with Null and a web, I'll use it to kite >:)


Here's the problem.

Everything in the game you can outrun performs better than you at longer ranges. Nano and overdrive a battleship all you want, a BC will either outrun or outtank you if you do outrun it, because oh god your ship would be badly fit to outrun a BC.

You're using blasters, meaning you only have an advantage in DPS within about 15 km. Outside that you're taking more than you're dealing against anything. Nothing has shorter range than blasters, and only an idiot won't have null in his hold.

Your tank or DPS is going to be gimped if you're using so many lows / rigs to maintain 2km/s without overheating. If that's your overheat speed, it won't last for a fraction of a BS brawl.

If you're using a long point, a neut can reach you. If a neut can reach you, your active tank (meaning your EHP is **** and you might get freaking volleyed by artillery in a battleship) has a really hard counter that is not even rare.

If you're using webs, you're either within 10km (and thus your MWD is worthless) or you're using faction webs sitting at 14km (still almost useless except you make for a shiny killmail).

To sum it up - blaster ships, regardless of ammo type, only hold the advantage very close to their targets. Everywhere else they are at a severe disadvantage. And you want to try to kite in one, yet you want to use webs to do so, implying a really, really tight kite that any blaster ship will be hitting you at with short range ammo.
androch
LitlCorp
#1487 - 2013-04-11 08:43:04 UTC
love the fact that domi is now a drone platform, now please remodel it so it looks less ugly, there is nothing on this ship that looks like it would deploy any kind of drone (no visible hangar like other ships liek the algos, the arbitrator, hell even the mega has a drone bay visible) if not that little concession then just scrap the whole thing and make it look more carrier like
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1488 - 2013-04-11 08:45:29 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Roime wrote:
Intention was to make it attack battleship, but it got the slot layout of a fleet ship


I think you are mistaken at this point. Everybody in the thread wanted one gallente BS that can be competetive in fleets, hence the new megathrone. It is also fast and can be used for other things too, which is a bonus.

Yes, everybody want a bad amarr/caldari basterd instead of of something gallente with a reason to exists. That's the problem some of us have with this version.

Akirei Scytale wrote:
Actually, with 7 / 4 / 8, the new mega has better DPS at mid ranges than any fleet ship but an Abaddon, competitive mid-long range DPS only eclipsed by the Rokh, and everything necessary to tank like the best of them except a little more CPU. Without that CPU, it can have a tank equal to a Rokh's EHP with an inferior resist profile, or a perfectly balanced resist profile with about 7k EHP less than a Maelstrom.
That's exactly this ! This Megathron is a worse Abaddon, a worse Rokh or a worse Maelstrom, pick you choice. What is the interest already ? Oh yeah, nullsec nerds can pick a second choice ship to follow the real fleet ships. What does this ship can do another ship can't ? Amarr & caldari ships are better fleet ships, and minmatar ships are better attack ships, because this thing is now a basterds of all these.

7+1/5/6 Mega would have been a Tempest with blasters : undisputed king of close range skirmish, with option to shield or armor, leaving the Tempest with cap warfare and more range.
And its brother the 8/4/7 Hyperion would have been like this new Megathron, but with more firepower.

But whatever, all hail to the new Hyperion which does almost everything better than before, packing both the Hyperion and Megathron in one hull. Everyone is happy now I guess.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1489 - 2013-04-11 08:48:38 UTC
Re: 7+1/5/6
LOL, a tempest with blasters, with less range and neuting power and agility than a tempest, and less turret dps and speed than a talos.... "What is the interest already ? Oh yeah, solowanna-be nerds can pick a second choice ship to follow the skirmish ships. What does this ship can do another ship can't ?"






Yeah....

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1490 - 2013-04-11 08:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Actually, with 7 / 4 / 8, the new mega has better DPS at mid ranges than any fleet ship but an Abaddon, competitive mid-long range DPS only eclipsed by the Rokh, and everything necessary to tank like the best of them except a little more CPU. Without that CPU, it can have a tank equal to a Rokh's EHP with an inferior resist profile, or a perfectly balanced resist profile with about 7k EHP less than a Maelstrom.
That's exactly this ! This Megathron is a worse Abaddon, a worse Rokh or a worse Maelstrom, pick you choice. What is the interest already ? Oh yeah, nullsec nerds can pick a second choice ship to follow the real fleet ships. What does this ship can do another ship can't ? Amarr & caldari ships are better fleet ships, and minmatar ships are better attack ships, because this thing is now a basterds of all these.

7+1/5/6 Mega would have been a Tempest with blasters : undisputed king of close range skirmish, with option to shield or armor, leaving the Tempest with cap warfare and more range.
And its brother the 8/4/7 Hyperion would have been like this new Megathron, but with more firepower.

But whatever, all hail to the new Hyperion which does almost everything better than before, packing both the Hyperion and Megathron in one hull. Everyone is happy now I guess.


How do you not understand my post?!?

What that says, in very clear language, is that the fleet megathron outDPSes everything but the Abaddon at medium range, without the glaring flaw of only being able to shoot to 60km. In fact it can shoot out as far as a Rokh, doing less damage only at the extreme ranges.

In other words, it is an armor Rokh that outperforms it in mid range and is outperformed at extreme range. Better DPS and better tracking in the most common fleet engagement ranges.

The only flaw it has right now is it can't fit a full set of hardeners, so its EHP is slightly below average unless its CPU is fixed. 117k EHP is pretty much a Maelstrom. Low, but not nearly as bad as what it had before. It can do 130k EHP (a Rokh), but then has 60%ish therm and kin resists. Except it does more damage than a Mael. At every range. And is faster. All it lacks is the Mael's alpha, but it has much better tracking, meaning it doesn't need Huginns in every fleet.
zerquse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1491 - 2013-04-11 08:50:54 UTC
Moretic wrote:
zerquse wrote:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

I think this would be better:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone MWD Speed and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

so all drones get a buff, not just sentrys


all drones DO get a buff with optimal and tracking...



yes because a 50% bonus to ogre's optimal is gonna make so much of a diffrence
Moretic
Casual Slackers
#1492 - 2013-04-11 08:55:00 UTC
zerquse wrote:
Moretic wrote:
zerquse wrote:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

I think this would be better:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone MWD Speed and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

so all drones get a buff, not just sentrys


all drones DO get a buff with optimal and tracking...



yes because a 50% bonus to ogre's optimal is gonna make so much of a diffrence


but it is a buff...

wether or not its preferrable is another matter...

me, personally far prefer the optimal range then mwd...
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1493 - 2013-04-11 09:02:09 UTC
MWD speed should be combined into the same tracking and optimal range bonus tbh.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Moretic
Casual Slackers
#1494 - 2013-04-11 09:05:56 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
MWD speed should be combined into the same tracking and optimal range bonus tbh.


That will work too :D but rather then that I'd like control range added... ( I WANT MY GUNS!! :D )
Rukhsana Uxor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1495 - 2013-04-11 09:06:32 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:

Blasters dont work in fleets, i explain why in detail on page 25. That said, rail mega does 600 dps from guns at 40km, and can hit to 140km

They work pretty ok. If i remember correct PL use blasters rokh with STB.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1496 - 2013-04-11 09:14:13 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
The Hyperion is slightly better... For mission running.

The rest of it looks rather bad honestly.Straight


Freed CPU / PG from less turrets, minimal base DPS lost, and an extra low.

It is better in pretty much every single application.


This, the Hyperion finally looks viable. Triple-rep crazy tank, dual rep, single rep with plate all seem to be worth trying.

For mission running Garde Domi is the new king. Nothing comes close to that tracking and dps at 40-60km.



.
zerquse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1497 - 2013-04-11 09:29:36 UTC
Moretic wrote:
zerquse wrote:
Moretic wrote:
zerquse wrote:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

I think this would be better:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone MWD Speed and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

so all drones get a buff, not just sentrys


all drones DO get a buff with optimal and tracking...



yes because a 50% bonus to ogre's optimal is gonna make so much of a diffrence


but it is a buff...

wether or not its preferrable is another matter...

me, personally far prefer the optimal range then mwd...


well sir, you are entitled to your opinion, but first if they use optimal instead of speed non sentry drones will still orbit at the same range so it will make no difference. second bouncer II's will hit at the domi's 96-110k(not looking it up) depending on skill lock range, so no difference. third they are nerfing guns on the domi so why would you want to have optimal instead of speed? when you can put drone link augmenters in the highs and still hit at 100k with bouncer II's or warden II's rather than sacrificing a mid slot for drone navigation computers if you want anything but warriors to be able to hit those kite fit ships?
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1498 - 2013-04-11 09:32:16 UTC
Hyperion: PROBLEM, OFFICER? Pirate
Megathon: Needs a little more CPU
Dominix: Needs tweaking, (+mwd bonus, or +mid slot or +highslot and powergrid) and changes to sentry drone behaviour

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1499 - 2013-04-11 09:36:38 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
How do you not understand my post?!?

What that says, in very clear language, is that the fleet megathron outDPSes everything but the Abaddon at medium range, without the glaring flaw of only being able to shoot to 60km. In fact it can shoot out as far as a Rokh, doing less damage only at the extreme ranges.

In other words, it is an armor Rokh that outperforms it in mid range and is outperformed at extreme range. Better DPS and better tracking in the most common fleet engagement ranges.

The only flaw it has right now is it can't fit a full set of hardeners, so its EHP is slightly below average unless its CPU is fixed. 117k EHP is pretty much a Maelstrom. Low, but not nearly as bad as what it had before. It can do 130k EHP (a Rokh), but then has 60%ish therm and kin resists. Except it does more damage than a Mael. At every range. And is faster. All it lacks is the Mael's alpha, but it has much better tracking, meaning it doesn't need Huginns in every fleet.

I should have been clearer : this Mega is a worse *beam* Abaddon, only having more cap life against it. Performance wise, you will have comparable dps up to 70km, and start to be better until you reach your max sensor range at 90km... or forget about better cap life. Of course your resists, ehp and tracking will be worse.

But maybe you prefer to be a worse Rokh ? Here, your advantage goes only up to 50km, then the Rokh is better in every way.

And of course the point of the Mael is alpha, so unless you plan to fit arties on your Megathron, the comparison is pointless.

I made the test with 3MFS current Megathron, which have more firepower than a 2MFS future Megathron you use for your tests. Of course, you can stack a 3rd MFS on the future one, but forget about resists&ehp.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
#1500 - 2013-04-11 09:42:03 UTC
zerquse wrote:
Moretic wrote:
zerquse wrote:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

I think this would be better:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone MWD Speed and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

so all drones get a buff, not just sentrys


all drones DO get a buff with optimal and tracking...



yes because a 50% bonus to ogre's optimal is gonna make so much of a diffrence

There is also a 50% bonus to drones (ogre's too) MWD speed. It makes a big difference.
Now Ogres can be quite useful at 20km or even 30km.