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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

First post
Author
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1341 - 2013-04-10 17:56:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


RR on BS isnt a mainstay thing in PvP and hasnt been for a number of years. With the new t1 logi thats even more so now.

The neut while handy isnt all that great. Most things are dead before they cap out and frigs regen their cap enough between cycles to render large neuts on them ineffective. They also suffer the same range issues as smartbombs and in a small gang a large smartbomb is problematic for your own frigates and drones.

Probers are not a massive loss as you cant fit combat probers on it and generally if you need a prober you will have someone in a cov ops anyway or for a WH gang enough probers around to not matter. The other use of a backup cyno for a fleet is no great loss either as you will have other ships for that too.

Most of the things you would put into that high will spend most of the time not getting used. An extra low however will provide more tank, more firepower, more speed, better ECM defence, more agility, more tracking, ect. Things that you will be using all the time. For people like me it will also offer room for more specialised fits for things the mega shouldn't really be able to do.


I didn't mean spider gangs, but a heavy RR can keep a smaller ship like tackle alive. Heavy neut will help breaking tanks. And the token probe launcher is nice to have on battleship since it's the most likely ship to end up on a wrong side of a hole.

Anyway, as you should notice- the extra low merely brings the tank or dps back to it's current levels. You gain nothing compared to current Mega, since it has better base stats to start with. Agility is irrelevant on a BS, you are slow no matter what you do. TEs will get nerfed so a midslot would be more valuable for tracking, same goes to ECCM.

All in all, this extra low slot just fix issues with base stats, but guess that was Rise's idea, to limit the Mega's usability.

.

fukier
Gallente Federation
#1342 - 2013-04-10 17:56:53 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Andski wrote:
oh good a pointless launcher slot on the hyperion

Obviously its for launching defenders to protect you from the Attack Ravens. Big smile


festive launcher can only be put on a missile hard point...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#1343 - 2013-04-10 17:57:48 UTC
Armageddon is will still be better than the Dominix solo or in large engagements. Why just shoot sentries when you can shoot lasers and sentries? I cant wait to try it out solo. Def does things I've wanted the Dominix to be able to do solo. As for the Megathron. We will see, but I feel I would rather use it with an active tank than the hype for near 2 times the cost. Not to say the hype is not good. I just like to watch my bank v0v


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#1344 - 2013-04-10 18:00:29 UTC
I like the 5 mid mega better personally.

For the hyp, it's so different that I can't really say if it is better or not.

Though I'm still a big fan of removing the active rep bonus for a flat bonus to armor HP. It differentiates it from Amarr, allows for viable fleet doctrines, and allows the race to not need to fit plates (thus allowing them to be faster) which they so badly need.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1345 - 2013-04-10 18:03:38 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Armageddon is will still be better than the Dominix solo or in large engagements. Why just shoot sentries when you can shoot lasers and sentries? I cant wait to try it out solo. Def does things I've wanted the Dominix to be able to do solo. As for the Megathron. We will see, but I feel I would rather use it with an active tank than the hype for near 2 times the cost. Not to say the hype is not good. I just like to watch my bank v0v


- killz

What exactly is stopping you from putting guns on the domi?

Hell, you could even put lasers on it if you really wanted [though their fitting would make them impractical]

Honestly the domi will put out more than enough DPS without guns aswell, not to mention the fact that it will be able to aply its DPS better to the point where heavies will hit frigates easily provided you add some DNCs.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1346 - 2013-04-10 18:05:15 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Roime wrote:


I didn't mean spider gangs, but a heavy RR can keep a smaller ship like tackle alive. Heavy neut will help breaking tanks. And the token probe launcher is nice to have on battleship since it's the most likely ship to end up on a wrong side of a hole.

Anyway, as you should notice- the extra low merely brings the tank or dps back to it's current levels. You gain nothing compared to current Mega, since it has better base stats to start with. Agility is irrelevant on a BS, you are slow no matter what you do. TEs will get nerfed so a midslot would be more valuable for tracking, same goes to ECCM.

All in all, this extra low slot just fix issues with base stats, but guess that was Rise's idea, to limit the Mega's usability.



Agility does matter on a BS as does speed. With the built in tracking the TE will help that little bit more and low slot ECCM is still good to have.

The high slot is something we can live without but if you really want it then the hype is probably more to your taste now.
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#1347 - 2013-04-10 18:09:47 UTC
Swing and miss for the Mega. Re-arranging the slot layout can only fix so much.Ugh May as well of left it the way it is if you don't correct the current issues. This proposal is better than the last one your proposed, but still comes up short in tackling the current issues with the ship.

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1348 - 2013-04-10 18:18:00 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
Armageddon is will still be better than the Dominix solo or in large engagements. Why just shoot sentries when you can shoot lasers and sentries? I cant wait to try it out solo. Def does things I've wanted the Dominix to be able to do solo. As for the Megathron. We will see, but I feel I would rather use it with an active tank than the hype for near 2 times the cost. Not to say the hype is not good. I just like to watch my bank v0v
- killz

They ninja bumped up the Dominix PG to 10k, and reduced the Armageddon PG to 13.5k.
Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#1349 - 2013-04-10 18:18:05 UTC
So from what I'm guessing.

Hyperion.. its good (between ok and good). May or maynot see it out and about, but better than it is now.

Megathron. Dunno as of yet.

Least the forums much quieter from the past 2 days of "WTF You Destroyed Gallente" threads.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1350 - 2013-04-10 18:19:27 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
THREAD UPDATED BASED ON FEEDBACK - Have a second look if you haven't since I originally posted.



Hyperion:

Here's the new and improved Hyperion. Based off of your feedback, this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6, while doubling its damage bonus from 5% per level to 10%. It also gains a larger drone bandwidth and bay, a utility high, and keeps its much-needed mid slot.

If anything, I'm worried this is too strong, but it should be an extremely fun ship to use. Hope you guys approve.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Large Hybrid Turret damage
+7.5% Armor Repair amount

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L(+1); 6 turrets , 1 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG(+250), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 7500 / 8000 / 8500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 4.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 175(+75)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 485


Megathron:

With the Hyperion moving to more of a combat/utility ship via its drones, heavy mid-slot allocation, and spare high, we felt the mega could now afford to move towards a completely dedicated gun boat. Instead of the former 8/5/6 utility focused set up, we now have a 7/4/8 hybrid damage machine that has sacrificed its utility high (which was often unused) to gain another low - giving it more access to damage, damage application/projection, or tank. It stays in its attack role and therefor retains the previously described increases to speed and agility. This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
+7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M, 8L(+1); 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2)
Fittings: 15500 PWG, 570 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75(-50) / 75(-50)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)

Dominix:

With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones. It will of course also be stronger at short range using heavy drones. As a combat battleship, its received increased hitpoints across the board, increased mass (it got its mass lowered during the hybrid buff), increased cap pool, and increased sig.

We believe this is a very exciting direction for the Dominix, and hope you will too!

I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones – no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)





OMFG they all look freakin' awesome! PLEASE keep these changes. An 8 low slot Mega AND a double dmg Hyp with the mid retained? I'm sobbing tears of joy CCP....

GUYS LOOK AT THAT MEGA!!!! LOOK AT IT!! Twisted

Just let it sink in.... Rof increase (better applied dmg) plus the Mega GAINS a low slot while retaining the agility and speed increase. It's the Gun Boat we've been dreaming of.... REJOICE!!
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1351 - 2013-04-10 18:19:59 UTC
8 high slots for weapons.

minny - check
amarr - check
caldari - check
gallente - oh noes.

Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#1352 - 2013-04-10 18:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tennessee Jack
William R Blake wrote:
Hyperion :

Seems good to me, although im not sure if it can run dual repper to go with its bonus decently.

Mega :

The plus on the low slots is good,tho i believe most ppl here prefer 7/5/7. Not sure about the RoF bonus. and if u can just buff the armor a little bit it would be nice OR make it faster and more agile.

DAT DRONE BANDWITH/BAY! come on guys, at least keep it at 100/125. Nerfing it to 75/75 is too much!

Domi :

Im not sure how i feel about Domi, it seem now the Domi is meant to be use with Sentry with this bonuses. How about Heavy drones?


All in All, im afraid Amarr BSes will have more versatility and will do better at EVERYTHING compared to Gallente BSes. As a new player i hate for this to happen. I dont have time to train all BSes and its weapon system


Well the Amarr BS has choices. The Dominix does also, it just doesn't have a bonus to whatever. The dominix drones are more effective (optimal and tracking), it has a variety (swap sentries for heavies), and it really has no need to run an active tank, or even guns. Its Midslots can virtually be Anything (sensor damps, target painters, sensor boosters, cap boosters), and its highs can be anything (guns, neuts, smartbombs, etc).

Best way to see is to pit them both against each other.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#1353 - 2013-04-10 18:33:32 UTC
hype is better, kinda fixed its issues.

with the mega give it its drone bay back and it will do, although would rather see 7/5/7 and 5 heavy's tbh

OMG when can i get a pic here

Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1354 - 2013-04-10 18:34:47 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
hype is better, kinda fixed its issues.

with the mega give it its drone bay back and it will do, although would rather see 7/5/7 and 5 heavy's tbh

yes and i would like to see my raven do 10 sentries at the same time , it only has 6 launchers after all :(
Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#1355 - 2013-04-10 18:47:07 UTC
Varesk wrote:
8 high slots for weapons.

minny - check
amarr - check
caldari - check
gallente - oh noes.



If the bonuses are equivalent to 8 high slots.. could care less. We get more use off having mids and lows than we have having highs in these situations.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1356 - 2013-04-10 18:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
In what way is proposed Megathron better than the proposed Hyperion?

Hyperion:
Better fitting stats. Check
Better baseline tank all around. Check
7 m/s slower than Mega. Hey, at least something is better for the Megathron.

5th mid = tracking computer/tracking speed. 30% tracking bonus. Check. Better tracking. There goes the Megathron bonus.

dps from Drones: 125 more dps from 2x Ogres II's. Check.
9 effective turrets vs 8.75. Check
One more utility high slot. Check

If Hyperion has no mag stabs, and Mega has one mag stab: 792 dps vs 815 dps. This difference could be accounted for with the launcher high slot of the Hyperion.

So, overall, Hyperion crowds into the Megathron space way too much. Why should I fly the Megathron? Not for rails. Other race's BS are clearly superior.

What is the Megathron's niche?

Edit: I think CCP is in a tough spot here. They clearly don't want to make the Megathron a good fleet ship by making it good with railguns (CPU...), and active repping bonuses suck, so they're left with two overlapping BS. Either Hyperion will be nerfed back to irrelevance, or it will crowd out the Megathron's engagement envelope. This is supposed to be about tiericide, but the Megathron has not been boosted to appropriate power level.
Dante KamiyaX
STARK INDUSTRIES.INCX
#1357 - 2013-04-10 18:50:17 UTC
Hype is going to look funny with 6 guns on an 8 turret hard point design. It's going to have holes in the ship where turrets use to be WTF! Are you all going to redesign it to fix the turret holes?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1358 - 2013-04-10 18:51:13 UTC
Tennessee Jack wrote:


If the bonuses are equivalent to 8 high slots.. could care less. We get more use off having mids and lows than we have having highs in these situations.

They're not. 8*1.25 = 10. 6*1.5 = 9, 7*1.25 = 8.75. Yikes.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#1359 - 2013-04-10 18:57:09 UTC
Dante KamiyaX wrote:
Hype is going to look funny with 6 guns on an 8 turret hard point design. It's going to have holes in the ship where turrets use to be WTF! Are you all going to redesign it to fix the turret holes?

The art team is already boiling the tar.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1360 - 2013-04-10 19:17:09 UTC
fukier wrote:
festive launcher can only be put on a missile hard point...


I guess it'll be useful for the "Hyperions no longer suck entirely!" party

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar