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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1161 - 2013-04-10 11:26:02 UTC
oh good a pointless launcher slot on the hyperion

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Luscius Uta
#1162 - 2013-04-10 11:26:12 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
New versions of Hyperion and Megathron posted in the OP - let me know what you guys think.



Hyperion - I love you CCP Rise!

Megathron - meh. Still has RoF bonus, and the drone bay got nerfed bad. Also, 8/4/7 slot layout is working fine, why insist on changing it?

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1163 - 2013-04-10 11:26:28 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

The Dominix needs a role bonus of +100% increase to Drone Control Range, it seriously lacks control range for most sentries even without the use of Omnidirectional Tacking Units.

May be not +100%, +50% would probably cut it for most cases. I'm actively using sentries right now, and only Wardens have that far of the optimal to require control beyond 80km. But some buf to sensor range would also come in handy.
Say, +10% sensor range and +50% drone control range.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#1164 - 2013-04-10 11:26:51 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

Aren't Dominix missing a slot? All other ships have 19, while Dominix only have 18.

By design. Drone ships have 1 less slot.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
wallenbergaren
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1165 - 2013-04-10 11:27:41 UTC
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The Megathron's never looked as distinctive as it does now. No longer competeting against the Talos or even Hyperion, it becomes the principle Gun Ship with the best slot layout for an armour sniper, with the agility and sensors to match.

Although plated armour and speed don't synergise well and I would have prefered the hyperion being the attack ship, this stops the megathron completely butting heads with BeamLand(tm).

Would never have expected the Art Dept to allow the hyperion lose turrets but I guess that's the best way to keep the most people happy.


Yeah they need to shuffle some things around. It makes more sense for the Hyperion to be fast and for the passive tanking ship (the mega) to have the larger buffer of the two.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1166 - 2013-04-10 11:29:34 UTC
wallenbergaren wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The Megathron's never looked as distinctive as it does now. No longer competeting against the Talos or even Hyperion, it becomes the principle Gun Ship with the best slot layout for an armour sniper, with the agility and sensors to match.

Although plated armour and speed don't synergise well and I would have prefered the hyperion being the attack ship, this stops the megathron completely butting heads with BeamLand(tm).

Would never have expected the Art Dept to allow the hyperion lose turrets but I guess that's the best way to keep the most people happy.


Yeah they need to shuffle some things around. It makes more sense for the Hyperion to be fast and for the passive tanking ship (the mega) to have the larger buffer of the two.



They COMBAT hyperion is alreeady more agile and almsot as fast and the ATTACK minmatar boat! Making it even faster woul be WAY overpowereed

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#1167 - 2013-04-10 11:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zloco Crendraven
Dez Affinity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
How much Mega d have dps with 7 neutrons 1 mag and 100 drone bw? Anyone able to calculate?

Taking in consideration this new rof bonus.


Current mega with 7 neutrons 1 mag and 5 ogres is about 1050 dps

New mega with 7 neutrons 1 mag and 4 ogres is about 1030 dps

both with 2 mag stabs its about 5 dps different in favour of current mega

but it actually has 75 m3 drone now

so its 1050 current vs 990

and

1190 vs 1140


I was wondering about if the Mega gets rolled back to 8/5/6 with 100 drone bw. Dps seems OK with comparison to the TQ one we get more speed and 1+ mid slot. Which imo makes the Mega a really good boat.

+ with the option of a shield gank/run games

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1168 - 2013-04-10 11:32:06 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

The Dominix needs a role bonus of +100% increase to Drone Control Range, it seriously lacks control range for most sentries even without the use of Omnidirectional Tacking Units.

May be not +100%, +50% would probably cut it for most cases. I'm actively using sentries right now, and only Wardens have that far of the optimal to require control beyond 80km. But some buf to sensor range would also come in handy.
Say, +10% sensor range and +50% drone control range.

Yes 100% was a far cry, and would be op.

I would also like to comment about the drone bay of the Armageddon and the Dominix, with the same bandwidth we can only look to carriers for reference as to the comparison of the two
Archon has a Drone bay of 80,000. Fighters have 200 times the volume of heavy drones. Reducing by a proportional volume would give the Armageddon a drone bay of 400m3
Thanatos has a Drone bay of 100,000. By the same volume reduction it would give the Dominix a drone bay of 500m3

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1169 - 2013-04-10 11:32:14 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

Aren't Dominix missing a slot? All other ships have 19, while Dominix only have 18.

By design. Drone ships have 1 less slot.


This is somewhat justified on double-damage bonused hulls, but not on purely drone-oriented ships. Dominix could now well have it's missing slot back.

Another way to fix this would be to extend drone bonus to all drone effects, to actually make the mythical "drone utility" a reality. Halve ECM drone base strength while you are at it. This would also differentiate the Domi and Geddon, one would be a true drone boat, other a nasty ghetto Bhaal.

Also, I see no reason to not extend the native drone control range of Domi now to better suit it's sentry drone role.

.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1170 - 2013-04-10 11:32:58 UTC
wallenbergaren wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The Megathron's never looked as distinctive as it does now. No longer competeting against the Talos or even Hyperion, it becomes the principle Gun Ship with the best slot layout for an armour sniper, with the agility and sensors to match.

Although plated armour and speed don't synergise well and I would have prefered the hyperion being the attack ship, this stops the megathron completely butting heads with BeamLand(tm).

Would never have expected the Art Dept to allow the hyperion lose turrets but I guess that's the best way to keep the most people happy.


Yeah they need to shuffle some things around. It makes more sense for the Hyperion to be fast and for the passive tanking ship (the mega) to have the larger buffer of the two.

An active tanking Hyperion is faster than a plated/trimarked Megathron.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Serith Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1171 - 2013-04-10 11:33:24 UTC
Quote:
Hyperion:

Here's the new and improved Hyperion. Based off of your feedback, this new version goes from 8 turrets to 6, while doubling its damage bonus from 5% per level to 10%. It also gains a larger drone bandwidth and bay, a utility high, and keeps its much-needed mid slot.

If anything, I'm worried this is too strong, but it should be an extremely fun ship to use. Hope you guys approve.

From 10 effective turrets (8+25%) to 9 (6+50%) is not a major change, and everything else looks very positive. And the utility high can be used for a launcher in max dps setups, a neut, nos, or other fun things to aid the dedicated brawler role. I may have to buy one of these now :)

Quote:
Megathron:

With the Hyperion moving to more of a combat/utility ship via its drones, heavy mid-slot allocation, and spare high, we felt the mega could now afford to move towards a completely dedicated gun boat. Instead of the former 8/5/6 utility focused set up, we now have a 7/4/8 hybrid damage machine that has sacrificed its utility high (which was often unused) to gain another low - giving it more access to damage, damage application/projection, or tank. It stays in its attack role and therefor retains the previously described increases to speed and agility. This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.


Yes. Yes. Oh god yes! Despite being someone who almost always used the utility high (usually for a drone link augmenter ) I find these changes entirely positive.

Inappropriate signature added.  CCP Notarealdev.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1172 - 2013-04-10 11:33:54 UTC
Roime wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

Aren't Dominix missing a slot? All other ships have 19, while Dominix only have 18.

By design. Drone ships have 1 less slot.


This is somewhat justified on double-damage bonused hulls, but not on purely drone-oriented ships. Dominix could now well have it's missing slot back.

Another way to fix this would be to extend drone bonus to all drone effects, to actually make the mythical "drone utility" a reality. Halve ECM drone base strength while you are at it. This would also differentiate the Domi and Geddon, one would be a true drone boat, other a nasty ghetto Bhaal.

Also, I see no reason to not extend the native drone control range of Domi now to better suit it's sentry drone role.


Pretty much. Add one of those changes to the domi and we're done.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1173 - 2013-04-10 11:34:22 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:

Look at its base armor before commenting that it will be the best armor buffer. It has the option of a solid tank or extreme gank now.


Extreme gank is way too extreme as Megathron already annihilate anything within range. People will always find ways to abuse dps in a way that doesn't make the game any better. And trust me you can get a sweet tank out of the Mega with 8 lowslots and still hurt people with ease...
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#1174 - 2013-04-10 11:35:16 UTC
I'm toying with the new Mega atm - the ship is still extremely CPU starved, but the new layout is incredible. If only it could take full advantage of all its slots. CPU rigs hurt to fit.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1175 - 2013-04-10 11:40:16 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Extreme gank is way too extreme as Megathron already annihilate anything within range. People will always find ways to abuse dps in a way that doesn't make the game any better. And trust me you can get a sweet tank out of the Mega with 8 lowslots and still hurt people with ease...

People don't seem to understank nor see that Blasters + dmg bonus + 1 MFS = the mightest weapon in the galaxy.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1176 - 2013-04-10 11:40:29 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:

Look at its base armor before commenting that it will be the best armor buffer. It has the option of a solid tank or extreme gank now.


Extreme gank is way too extreme as Megathron already annihilate anything within range. People will always find ways to abuse dps in a way that doesn't make the game any better. And trust me you can get a sweet tank out of the Mega with 8 lowslots and still hurt people with ease...


Most of the time a mega is shooting null. Its not often you get a fight that takes place in perfect void range agaist targets you can hit for full effect.

Extreme gank requires extreme close range and nobody out there will let you get close to them or stay still if they can help it.
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1177 - 2013-04-10 11:40:34 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
After the first wave of feedback, we are already talking about ways to make this line look a little stronger. We tend to agree that there's room for some more strength, especially in the case of the Hyperion. We'll keep you updated.

Aren't Dominix missing a slot? All other ships have 19, while Dominix only have 18.


Drone ships bro, Drone ships. -1 slot for drone ships has been the model of balance for an extremely long time. While there are some exceptions atm, expect those exceptions to disappear in the near future.
Maximille Biagge
Hydra Eternal
#1178 - 2013-04-10 11:40:44 UTC
CCP Rise delivers!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1179 - 2013-04-10 11:41:33 UTC
And plated Hype has a lot thicker buffer than Mega.

I think LAAR+plate+active rigs will be the ideal way to tank this version of the Mega, it is rather fast (1775m/s, 11s non-MWD align) and probably has enough buffer to last for 8 rep cycles. Especially with T2 LAAR, to be introduced in winter expansion 2024. Standard Exile, heat and a fleetmate in a BC with Passive Defense II gives it 911 hp/s reps per second, resulting in 59K EHP without speed penalty.



.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1180 - 2013-04-10 11:41:52 UTC
Maximille Biagge wrote:
CCP Rise delivers!

Was it Pizza? The Gallente community seems to still be divided.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.