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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#541 - 2013-04-09 08:08:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Now go plug in every tank you can think of into the Megathron and bear in mind a respectable BS' EHP is around 120k. Hardly anyone uses the Tempest seriously for a reason!

Making an "agile and fast" battleship is all fine and dandy, except the Talos exists and will always fill that role several orders of magnitude more effectively in the Gallente lineup.

The problem here is that a Battleship will never be fast or agile enough for these changes to matter much. All it means is you're putting the Megathron into the slot of "kinda sorta fast for a BS but will pop before it ever reaches blaster range".

The "tier 3" / assault battlecruisers are filling the role you're trying to shoehorn these ships into. Don't. You're just making them into inferior choices when they already had their own niche.


I want to respond to a few of these points since they seem to be coming up a lot, though I'm not sure why.

First the tank - I showed you the armor tank that people are most likely to use, 2 plate, 2eanm, 1 dcu - this is the standard mega armor tank and its still completely viable. Now, you have the same tank, similar damage, but your ship goes faster and you have an extra mid. Seems like a fair trade.

And as far as the Talos. I would never expect this ship to compete with the Talos as a roaming kiter. That is not whats intended by "fast and agile". If you want to see some value from fast and agile, think about a situation where you have a new shiny armageddon tackled by your friend in a stiletto. The geddon is perma jammed by your friend in a blackbird. But! You have just jumped through the gate and are 35k away from the armageddon! Now, as you close in, the armageddon has 2 friends show up! An oneiros and a falcon. Now you have to make a run for the gate as fast as possible. This is just one example of where a BS's speed matters. If you are in a hyperion, you will struggle to get over there and apply damage in anywhere near the time-frame that this attack mega can. There's many other examples, but I just want to make the point that just because a ship can't kite as well as a Talos, that doesn't mean speed is not important.

As a final point for comparing BS vs Tier3 BC. Always consider the way they would perform vs each other. How does this new mega do in a 1v1 vs a Talos?


Can you do the scenario again with the ECM. I always wondered what it would be like...
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#542 - 2013-04-09 08:09:58 UTC
Hyperion:
Find a role for it or leave it as it is until you do.

Megathron:
What the hell?!?
The quintessential Gallente Battleship and it looks like all this proposed change is designed to do is to make shield/gank fits more viable... Oh and making it cap out faster (like it needs the help).
I (and I'm sure many others) recall the previous assessment being that the 'thron was pretty much where it needed to be; and I would more or less agree (perhaps a little more speed would be nice) armour's current "restrictions" not withstanding.

[will add more when I'm not making myself late for work]
Heinrich Hoss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#543 - 2013-04-09 08:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Hoss
To all the ignorant people who think the dominix is not commonly used; it is the best T1 ship in the game for Sansha ratting. Argueably the second best subcap, bested only by the mach. I know a lot of people who use it almost daily, and I would myself if I could fly one and had drone skills.
Johnny Aideron
Order of Rouvenor
#544 - 2013-04-09 08:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Aideron
Give the Hyperion the rate of fire bonus instead (more DPS to take advantage of it's many guns), give the reps a bonus to capacitor use. Improve the cap recharge rate.

The problem with the Megathron is capacitor use as well, you should keep it at 4 mids, 7 lows, but give it lots of extra capacitor while keeping the damage rather than rate of fire bonus. Let the Megathron keeps it's flight of heavies, in almost every other class of ship there is at least one Gallente ship that can use a full flight of unbonused drones. Give it 125/150 so that it can carry a full set of heavies and lights. It would be more versatile than the Hyperion but less tanky and ganky.

The Dominix could use a increase in it's base targeting range given that it can serve a long ranged DPS role. You could also give it a more CPU and powergrid to compensate for the loss of the hybrid damage bonus. With unbonused guns at least let it fit a rack of 425 railguns. Add +5 km drone control range per level to one of the hull bonuses. That way you could fit a full rack of guns and still take advantage of the hull bonus to drone range.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#545 - 2013-04-09 08:36:16 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Can you do the scenario again with the ECM. I always wondered what it would be like...


I love how people think ECM is the most broken ewar Roll

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Au' Tena
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#546 - 2013-04-09 08:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Au' Tena
@ccp rise

Quote:
Hyperion:

The Hyperion in a tight spot. We can acknowledge that for the moment active armor tanking is struggling to find a place. We know that many of you would be happier to have the Hyperion lose this bonus and pick up something more practical in today's Eve. However, we're committed to helping armor find its place, and so, to keep continuity with the rest of the Gallente line-up, the Hyp will keep its current bonuses.

It will be gaining a low slot (giving up a mid), hopefully making its purpose as a pure brawler more realistic.



i dont understand how youre change would improve active tanking. i am flying a hype myself in lvl4's with 2 reppers on it and an AB. given thet the rest of my midslots are filled with cap rechargers and the rigs are t1 of the same bonusses, i can dual rep permantly or use a rep and a AB permantly for some range.

this is a basic t2 setup with no officer or other exotic mods on it

loosing the mid will mean loosing a cap recharger and therefore upsetting my balance, the extra low wont help there. perhaps better native cap recharge might help this ship a lott more? otherwise , i wll have to rethink my fit and go for better resists and spend the freed low slot on that. not what you had intended, was it?
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#547 - 2013-04-09 08:44:38 UTC
Au' Tena wrote:
loosing the mid will mean loosing a cap recharger and therefore upsetting my balance, the extra low wont help there.


There is a wonderful module named capacitor power relay. You can just put a cpr on your new low slot and continue your PvE fun uninterrupted.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#548 - 2013-04-09 08:45:25 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Space potato becomes a fleet ship


How is it a good idea for a fleet ship to leave it's DPS source behind every time it has to gtfo?
Captain Semper
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#549 - 2013-04-09 08:46:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Semper
Does anyone use BS in solo\small pvp roams? In solo its usually gate camps. Now with MJD. And smal roams? No ofc. Coz of speed. Who want use BS with so low speed in situation where u need mobility? You need like 10 min to travel 5-6 systems (or even more if armor tank).
So...main role for most of BS is fleet fights. CTA and etc. Tell me plz, where i could use ALL gallent ships? In what format? Armor BS? Amarr better. More tank more range (~50 with close range weapon).
So, if nobody told me, that gallents BS have no use in alliance CTA format, and i learnd it... Well im pretty useless for my ally because gallent have no BS for form their own format...
Blasters have low range...Very low.... And only in 1\5 situation you will warp in 10-20 to enemy fleet, in other way you will be always out of range and taking damage from enemy. And +7 m\s not helps to get in close fast.
Give optimal or falloff bonus to gallents BS (mega or hyper). Some of gallent ships have optimal bonus (t2 versions) and some have falloff bonus (frigs, destr, t3) "New" hyper with 4 med slots pretty weak in dual-trip reps because you need to choose between prop module and web (2 cap booster is default for hyper in current game mechanic), so why not to give him optimal or falloff bonus?

Anyway rokh still better for all hybrid weapons. Becuase of range. He could deal damage at range that mega can only dream (dont forget about EHP). Why i should learn gallents BS? Dont know, what my SP back :D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#550 - 2013-04-09 08:54:10 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:
Does anyone use BS in solo\small pvp roams?


I do.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#551 - 2013-04-09 08:59:32 UTC
Au' Tena wrote:
@ccp rise

Quote:
Hyperion:

The Hyperion in a tight spot. We can acknowledge that for the moment active armor tanking is struggling to find a place. We know that many of you would be happier to have the Hyperion lose this bonus and pick up something more practical in today's Eve. However, we're committed to helping armor find its place, and so, to keep continuity with the rest of the Gallente line-up, the Hyp will keep its current bonuses.

It will be gaining a low slot (giving up a mid), hopefully making its purpose as a pure brawler more realistic.



i dont understand how youre change would improve active tanking. i am flying a hype myself in lvl4's with 2 reppers on it and an AB. given thet the rest of my midslots are filled with cap rechargers and the rigs are t1 of the same bonusses, i can dual rep permantly or use a rep and a AB permantly for some range.

this is a basic t2 setup with no officer or other exotic mods on it

loosing the mid will mean loosing a cap recharger and therefore upsetting my balance, the extra low wont help there. perhaps better native cap recharge might help this ship a lott more? otherwise , i wll have to rethink my fit and go for better resists and spend the freed low slot on that. not what you had intended, was it?


The best capacitor mods are lowslot mods. Just FYI. No one uses them because lowslots are extremely important and generally there is something better to fit, but you'll GAIN cap stability moving a mid to a low.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#552 - 2013-04-09 09:01:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:
Does anyone use BS in solo\small pvp roams?


I do.


And you could do the same with a dreadnaught.

Doesn't mean it is an optimal choice. Because it isn't.

BSes can be used in nearly any role, but only truly excel in fleet warfare and PvE.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#553 - 2013-04-09 09:08:28 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:
Does anyone use BS in solo\small pvp roams?


I do.


And you could do the same with a dreadnaught.

Doesn't mean it is an optimal choice. Because it isn't.

BSes can be used in nearly any role, but only truly excel in fleet warfare and PvE.


Wrong. You just need to know how to use them.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#554 - 2013-04-09 09:12:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:
Does anyone use BS in solo\small pvp roams?


I do.


And you could do the same with a dreadnaught.

Doesn't mean it is an optimal choice. Because it isn't.

BSes can be used in nearly any role, but only truly excel in fleet warfare and PvE.


Wrong. You just need to know how to use them.




You could do even more in a Talos in a small gang. Comparable DPS, significantly higher speed, and far more flexibility. Just because it is possible to use a Megathron in that role does not mean it is the ideal ship, let alone ideal blaster platform.

I know you love the ship and it has been your gimmick for ages. A lot of us love the ship. But its specialization is not shield tanked small gang roaming.
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#555 - 2013-04-09 09:15:12 UTC
ok so to start with ..dominix ...the new bonus to optimal range + tracking is ok...now when used with sentryes it will be better ..now ..the mega ...as usual .. u can`t do 1 thing right witouth 1 wrong ..thats how ccp works ..in conclusion ..you should of just change the mega bonuses to the hyperion cuz thats what u are doing now ..having 6 slots will make its buffer weaker ..also -1 heavy drone loses the whole joy of the ship ..giving it 5% bonus to rate of fire isnt what was needed either ..in the long run results more dps ..but the whole fun of mega was 7 blasters 5 ogre "high alpha+buff ..deal as much dps as u can ..by changing the curent stats to the ones u got in mind now ..u basicly ruining it ..and im not the only one complaining about the mega change ...so ccp thats a no no ..leave the mega alone if you wanna actually do something replace the hull HP with the armor HP so it gets more armor ..if not just leave it as it is ...now on to the hyperion ...giving it a 7th low slot ..actually is something needed u can tank it better it could actually work even decent in pvp now so yeah u`r doing it right here
X4m
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#556 - 2013-04-09 09:16:03 UTC
-1 med slot for giperion? Seriosly? How I can fit this **** without 2 capboosters?
Au' Tena
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#557 - 2013-04-09 09:17:56 UTC

@Deerin and
@ Akirei Scytale

thank you both, I will look into that.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#558 - 2013-04-09 09:18:28 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:
Does anyone use BS in solo\small pvp roams?


I do.


And you could do the same with a dreadnaught.

Doesn't mean it is an optimal choice. Because it isn't.

BSes can be used in nearly any role, but only truly excel in fleet warfare and PvE.



I've done mostly solo small gang BS for years. It isn't the optimal choice for how you play maybe but I don't care much for killing frigs in belts.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#559 - 2013-04-09 09:19:39 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:


You could do even more in a Talos in a small gang. Comparable DPS, significantly higher speed, and far more flexibility. Just because it is possible to use a Megathron in that role does not mean it is the ideal ship, let alone ideal blaster platform.

I know you love the ship and it has been your gimmick for ages. A lot of us love the ship. But its specialization is not shield tanked small gang roaming.


Nor should it be.

I dont want to see it lose that low slot. If it must get that 5th mid (which I like the idea of) the the high should be taken away.

I would also want the cap recharge to be upgraded to neutralisethe extra cap that will be used with the ROF change.
Awatar
Black Flag Operations
#560 - 2013-04-09 09:21:04 UTC
With the new slot layout on the mega you move away from armortanking with gallente even further and only make it more viable as a speedy shield-caphungry brawler. ie large Talos.