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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#2461 - 2013-05-16 21:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: DeLindsay
mine mi wrote:
the hyperion can use, one more medium,instead of one utility high slot
because, there more mids modules they can use, ( micro jump, ewar, cap boosters, eccm) than high modules.

Meh the Hype is looking much better for Odyssey than it has in years. I was so busy drooling over the new Domi I only realized the Hype's new found awesomeness last night, and I'm very happy. It was after all my first BS (that I lost to a LvL 4 fail) but I always did love the look and sheer size of that ship.

EDIT: And to those saying new Geddon over new Domi in PvP I will say this... I don't want to fight that new Geddon with ANY ship, it makes me wet my pants Shocked

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Perihelion Olenard
#2462 - 2013-05-17 00:43:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
DeLindsay wrote:
... I don't want to fight that new Geddon with ANY ship, it makes me wet my pants Shocked

I would in a plated Hyperion. Him seeing me in a ship with an active tanking bonus may make him aggress if he were at a gate or station. It'll last until friends arrive.
Broxus Maximas
Perkone
Caldari State
#2463 - 2013-05-17 01:32:08 UTC
DeLindsay wrote:
mine mi wrote:
the hyperion can use, one more medium,instead of one utility high slot
because, there more mids modules they can use, ( micro jump, ewar, cap boosters, eccm) than high modules.

Meh the Hype is looking much better for Odyssey than it has in years. I was so busy drooling over the new Domi I only realized the Hype's new found awesomeness last night, and I'm very happy. It was after all my first BS (that I lost to a LvL 4 fail) but I always did love the look and sheer size of that ship.

EDIT: And to those saying new Geddon over new Domi in PvP I will say this... I don't want to fight that new Geddon with ANY ship, it makes me wet my pants Shocked



You do realize the new Domi received a pretty large nerf since it lost 25% gun damage? People seem to forget to get that weaksauce skill we lost a large chunk of DPS.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2464 - 2013-05-17 02:05:39 UTC
Broxus Maximas wrote:
DeLindsay wrote:
mine mi wrote:
the hyperion can use, one more medium,instead of one utility high slot
because, there more mids modules they can use, ( micro jump, ewar, cap boosters, eccm) than high modules.

Meh the Hype is looking much better for Odyssey than it has in years. I was so busy drooling over the new Domi I only realized the Hype's new found awesomeness last night, and I'm very happy. It was after all my first BS (that I lost to a LvL 4 fail) but I always did love the look and sheer size of that ship.

EDIT: And to those saying new Geddon over new Domi in PvP I will say this... I don't want to fight that new Geddon with ANY ship, it makes me wet my pants Shocked



You do realize the new Domi received a pretty large nerf since it lost 25% gun damage? People seem to forget to get that weaksauce skill we lost a large chunk of DPS.




On the total DPS of a full gank fit Dominix, how much DPS is lost from the 25%?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#2465 - 2013-05-17 02:39:44 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
On the total DPS of a full gank fit Dominix, how much DPS is lost from the 25%?
Given overheat and faction ammo, it's about a 15% loss..... if you are using blasters. But why would you? If you wanted a full gank ship, you would use a Mega or Hype now. Y'know, ships that actually have a bonus and do more damage gank fit.

The new Domi will end up in the same position most ships do that lack a damage bonus - they will fit ACs. Before the Blaster buff where they reduced the PG reqs, I flew AC Domis quite regularly with great success. So it's not a tragic loss. Annoying and unnecessary, but not tragic.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2466 - 2013-05-17 02:41:33 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
On the total DPS of a full gank fit Dominix, how much DPS is lost from the 25%?

It's easy to determine : you must first assess the proportion of your gun dps vs drone dps ; let's call x the gun portion. At best, your gun portion is 50% (because you won't do a lot more than 800dps with your guns unless you sacrifice everything else)..
Then, multiply the bonus by this portion : 25* 50% = 12,5% (at best).

So, in the worst case (when you sacrificed everything for gun dps), you actualy lose 12,5% dps, which is a lot, but not so scary anymore.

To achieve 50% gun ratio, you need 6 ion blasters (neutron don't fit) and same number of damage mod for drones and guns.

Fix for the futur : replace a MFS with a DDA, and you'll see almost nothing !
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2467 - 2013-05-17 02:45:42 UTC
Ty, but it was more to show that the loss of the 25% gun DPS was not all the much in the long run.
I believe I had this very discussion in the first few pages of the thread.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Otto Schultzky
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2468 - 2013-05-17 03:41:59 UTC
I am probably late to the party, but non the less.

Hyperion changes are welcome, but basically it becomes a current Megathron with a repair bonus instead of a tracking bonus.

Megathron will basically be a fatter and much slower Talos, with more tank and less gank.

Dominx on the other hand, becomes a dedicated drone potato with somewhat useless drone optimal range.
Useless, because I will have to fit more Drone Link Augmenters then guns to make use of that on anythig other then Garde sentry drones and optimal range bonus on anything other then sentry drones is practically worthless.

Honestly I would rather see that Dominix gets a 5km to 7.5km to drone control range per level, then 10% to drone optimal per level. This way you can at least fit 6 guns on it and have a decent drone control range.

P.S.

The more i look at the proposed changes, the more it reminds me of Dominion = Minmatar buff
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#2469 - 2013-05-17 03:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: DeLindsay
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
DeLindsay wrote:
... I don't want to fight that new Geddon with ANY ship, it makes me wet my pants Shocked

I would in a plated Hyperion. Him seeing me in a ship with an active tanking bonus may make him aggress if he were at a gate or station. It'll last until friends arrive.

Indeed, and I was exaggerating about how mean the Geddon will be, but it's still gonna be beast come Odyssey.
Quote:
You do realize the new Domi received a pretty large nerf since it lost 25% gun damage? People seem to forget to get that weaksauce skill we lost a large chunk of DPS.

Nobody is forgetting that the Domi lost 25% Gun dmg as that's the ONLY reason anyone is complaining about the Odyssey Domi. Even CCP tried on multiple posts to point out the FACT that at current the Domi has the highest (non-pirate) DPS for any sub cap ship in the game. It completely overshadows all other T1 BS's in DPS output. The 25% loss will reduce it's non-overheated, Void ammo + Ogre IIs dps to about 1550, still a VERY good dps number and in line with all other T1 BS's.

They are also giving the Domi a GIGANTIC EHP buff, making it even more nasty in turtle gangs than it already was. The new secondary will help regular Drones but not near as much as Sentries (more a PvE aspect for sure). It gets a pretty serious Cap boost and more grid (which it seriously needed). All in all the Odyssey Domi will be fantastic and not at all the dead space potato everyone is crying it will be. This happens in every MMO right before a change, then a bit after said changes everyone learns how to still be effective in what they were doing before and the crying stops.
Quote:
Dominx on the other hand, becomes a dedicated drone potato with somewhat useless drone optimal range.
Useless, because I will have to fit more Drone Link Augmenters then guns to make use of that on anythig other then Garde sentry drones and optimal range bonus on anything other then sentry drones is practically worthless.

I'm afraid you have no idea how to fly the Dominix as a Sentry Drone platform. Having my Garde II's get an Optimal range of 58km with only a single Omni and the tracking almost of a base stats Medium Neutron Blaster, yes please. At current I use the RS with (3) Omnis to get Gardes to 57km Opt and they tear through ships like nothing. Also, you misunderstand how sentries work. It does not matter how many DLA's you have fitted to your ship, if the Sentries are out and your ship (or they) are attacked they will fire back at anything within their range, even it's that range is 50km over what you can control them to. The difference is you cannot TELL them to attack said ship, they have to do it as a defensive move. I have had ships popped at 121km with Wardens when I could only target to 98km in my RS.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2470 - 2013-05-17 15:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
DeLindsay wrote:

Nobody is forgetting that the Domi lost 25% Gun dmg as that's the ONLY reason anyone is complaining about the Odyssey Domi.


No. Get with the program. There maybe the odd straggler moaning they want the hybrid bonus again but most of the debaters are trying to figure out a way to get the Domi to work in a PvP situation with a stationary weapon system in a game where people are arguing about how a few + or - m/s makes or breaks other boats. Also whether using other non-sentry drones are worth it on this ship considering what other boats you could be flying with those drone types.

I love the idea of 100% droneboat but I'm turning my eyes to the eventual Ishtar and maybe Eos updates for a more interesting drone bonused ship.

Also I wish Roime would do another "Dear Sir, your PvE desires have little to do with the current balance argument" post.
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2471 - 2013-05-17 15:56:44 UTC
If we look at a bare Dominix on Tranquility it gets 562 DPS with Void and 475 DPS with Ogre IIs. The removal of the Hybrid damage bonus drops the DPS from 562 to 449.6.

You can overheat, add damage mods, etc. as you like from that point, but 120 DPS isn't as much of "nothing" as about half of the people here feel. It's also not as much of "everything" as the other half seems to feel. Personally I don't mind it being removed, I just feel underwhelmed by its replacement bonus.

Save the drones!
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2472 - 2013-05-17 16:13:55 UTC
Hi guys

I have a small update for you: we are going to bump the Megathron CPU up by 30, to a total of 600.

By adding a low and also trying to coax people towards rails slightly, CPU would have been under a little too much pressure.

I know after a hundred pages this feels like a very small acknowledgment in the scheme of things, and we are certainly aware of that. A lot of the argument surrounding most of the battleship balance seems focused on whether or not these ships will actually perform in the roles they've been assigned to warrant their use. For that, we feel like we are at a point where we need to see how they do on tranquility. After release we will evaluate again, and if something isn't working out it will be addressed.

I will keep reading these threads in the mean time so don't hesitate to keep discussing the changes.

Thanks, o/

@ccp_rise
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2473 - 2013-05-17 16:18:47 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys

I have a small update for you: we are going to bump the Megathron CPU up by 30, to a total of 600.

By adding a low and also trying to coax people towards rails slightly, CPU would have been under a little too much pressure.

I know after a hundred pages this feels like a very small acknowledgment in the scheme of things, and we are certainly aware of that. A lot of the argument surrounding most of the battleship balance seems focused on whether or not these ships will actually perform in the roles they've been assigned to warrant their use. For that, we feel like we are at a point where we need to see how they do on tranquility. After release we will evaluate again, and if something isn't working out it will be addressed.

I will keep reading these threads in the mean time so don't hesitate to keep discussing the changes.

Thanks, o/


Rise please respond to this for the people who liked the original post of the shield mega.
Why do you object to the 7-5-7 layout?
as it is the Hype when dual rep fitted will be more mobile than the dual plated mega which is meant to be the attack battleship.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2474 - 2013-05-17 16:22:29 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys

I have a small update for you: we are going to bump the Megathron CPU up by 30, to a total of 600.

By adding a low and also trying to coax people towards rails slightly, CPU would have been under a little too much pressure.

I know after a hundred pages this feels like a very small acknowledgment in the scheme of things, and we are certainly aware of that. A lot of the argument surrounding most of the battleship balance seems focused on whether or not these ships will actually perform in the roles they've been assigned to warrant their use. For that, we feel like we are at a point where we need to see how they do on tranquility. After release we will evaluate again, and if something isn't working out it will be addressed.

I will keep reading these threads in the mean time so don't hesitate to keep discussing the changes.

Thanks, o/

As small as that is, I almost died when you said the Megathron is getting CPU up. That is absolutely fantastic. Also good to know that you are/have been reading the thread. I guess we'll see where Tranquility takes us then.
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Rise please respond to this for the people who liked the original post of the shield mega.
Why do you object to the 7-5-7 layout?
as it is the Hype when dual rep fitted will be more mobile than the dual plated mega which is meant to be the attack battleship.
Dear god please stop with the Shield Mega bullcrap already!

Save the drones!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2475 - 2013-05-17 16:24:34 UTC
That helps the fleet Mega fits, however well they do in in the current meta is up to the blobists to find out. The whole "Attack BS" concept is still mysterious to me, and there's very little the Mega can do in a small gang that they Hype couldn't do- so what's the attack component then for a rail blob ship?

Also, I take that as a no to the sentry fix then? I hope you recognize that the intended role for Domi hinges on adjustment to sentry scoop range or mechanics.



.
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2476 - 2013-05-17 16:26:02 UTC
Roime wrote:
That helps the fleet Mega fits, however well they do in in the current meta is up to the blobists to find out. The whole "Attack BS" concept is still mysterious to me, and there's very little the Mega can do in a small gang that they Hype couldn't do- so what's the attack component then for a rail blob ship?

Also, I take that as a no to the sentry fix then? I hope you recognize that the intended role for Domi hinges on adjustment to sentry scoop range or mechanics.

We just have to throw some ISKies out the window by trying to make effective Domi's in PvP before CCP is gonna fix it. At least, I think that's what he said.

Save the drones!
IceDe4d
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2477 - 2013-05-17 16:28:38 UTC
loged on sisi today, first thing i did was buying a hyper and try to fit it.... for me it feels like all my dreams about a nice hyper came true. I have enough grid and cpu to fit what i want and the much needed 7th low makes it the best gallente bs now.
The Mega needs the 5 heavy drones back otherwise it makes no sense for me to use it anymore.
Im speeking from a low sec pirate perspective with max skills and pvp use only anway looking forward to some hyper action :)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2478 - 2013-05-17 16:36:50 UTC
ExAstra wrote:
Roime wrote:
That helps the fleet Mega fits, however well they do in in the current meta is up to the blobists to find out. The whole "Attack BS" concept is still mysterious to me, and there's very little the Mega can do in a small gang that they Hype couldn't do- so what's the attack component then for a rail blob ship?

Also, I take that as a no to the sentry fix then? I hope you recognize that the intended role for Domi hinges on adjustment to sentry scoop range or mechanics.

We just have to throw some ISKies out the window by trying to make effective Domi's in PvP before CCP is gonna fix it. At least, I think that's what he said.


Well I personally don't find sentries problematic at all in a small gang context, instead their immobile nature allows for many interesting tricks. I've never ran out of drones. However in those situations sentries are not subject to staggered bombers or fleet warps. Obviously the fixes that fleets need would help small gangers and PVErs as well, the 2500m scoop range is highly impractical. Just dropping them right after exiting warp will cause a Domi to drift outside their range, and orbiting them may also take you too far from one sentry.


.
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2479 - 2013-05-17 16:45:16 UTC
Roime wrote:
ExAstra wrote:
Roime wrote:
That helps the fleet Mega fits, however well they do in in the current meta is up to the blobists to find out. The whole "Attack BS" concept is still mysterious to me, and there's very little the Mega can do in a small gang that they Hype couldn't do- so what's the attack component then for a rail blob ship?

Also, I take that as a no to the sentry fix then? I hope you recognize that the intended role for Domi hinges on adjustment to sentry scoop range or mechanics.

We just have to throw some ISKies out the window by trying to make effective Domi's in PvP before CCP is gonna fix it. At least, I think that's what he said.


Well I personally don't find sentries problematic at all in a small gang context, instead their immobile nature allows for many interesting tricks. I've never ran out of drones. However in those situations sentries are not subject to staggered bombers or fleet warps. Obviously the fixes that fleets need would help small gangers and PVErs as well, the 2500m scoop range is highly impractical. Just dropping them right after exiting warp will cause a Domi to drift outside their range, and orbiting them may also take you too far from one sentry.

Well, CCP had a big turret update and fix, followed by missiles. We only have to wait, Drones have to come next (especially now that those filthy Amarrians are using them).

Save the drones!
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2480 - 2013-05-17 16:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys

I have a small update for you: we are going to bump the Megathron CPU up by 30, to a total of 600.

By adding a low and also trying to coax people towards rails slightly, CPU would have been under a little too much pressure.



Huh, interesting. Coax us towards rails. I've never really considered it due to the terrible rep large rails have, but I may consider it again if its actually viable. I still have visions of the video where an iteron in tight orbit took out a rail Mega. *shudders (though there was a lot of other things the Mega could have done even with rails)

Also, thanks for the (brief) update.