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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2101 - 2013-04-23 11:14:43 UTC
Castor Narcissus wrote:
Roime wrote:
Yep, I agree. Oversized ASBs is about the correct level for active tanks, but they shouldn't be cap immune.

Strategies need to be viable and counterable.



They are counterable, you can't perma run them because of the charges. The problem is you can hold close to one hundred cap boosters if I'm not mistaken in BS's.



very mistaken.. a typical BS hold will hold like 20-24 400 sized charges.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2102 - 2013-04-23 11:15:57 UTC
Roime wrote:
You can't affect the tank with neuts = neut immunity.

ExAstra, the reason why you see the Mega as plated ship is because active armor tanking isn't fixed yet.

And the reason I see active(hybrid) tanking the Mega as a possible option is because it's partly fixed.

1600mm+LAAR fit looks like it could almost work, after they finally buff the repper base rep amounts, reduce the cap drain and cycle time, a T2 LAAR will work. We're not talking about dramatic changes, 5-10% and it's go.






You can affectt he tank. because you stop the hardeners. ASB are only RESILENT to neuts. Not immune.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2103 - 2013-04-23 11:30:15 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Roime wrote:
You can't affect the tank with neuts = neut immunity.

ExAstra, the reason why you see the Mega as plated ship is because active armor tanking isn't fixed yet.

And the reason I see active(hybrid) tanking the Mega as a possible option is because it's partly fixed.

1600mm+LAAR fit looks like it could almost work, after they finally buff the repper base rep amounts, reduce the cap drain and cycle time, a T2 LAAR will work. We're not talking about dramatic changes, 5-10% and it's go.






You can affectt he tank. because you stop the hardeners. ASB are only RESILENT to neuts. Not immune.


ASBs are pretty much spot on. If you use a single one, it's really just a slowly working LSE with higher max HP and similiar interaction with the minmatar SB-Bonus as the passive resist bonus granted to other races' ships. Now with resistances being mildly tunes downwards, SB-bonused ships might finally create more EHP than a comparable resist-bonused set-up.
Anyways, wether using two ASBs to create an active tank, or cap booster + SB to create a tank having less peak, more sustain are equally valid choices. ASB ships - unless you don't kill the container they are getting charges from - are running out of time incredibly quickly. I personally don't see much wrong with the current state of ASBs.

Hybrid tanking the mega though is incredibly appealing, mounting a plate and a repper that you can stick between two eanms or so, making up for very long OH-durations. For 80 more mil, you even get a c-type that you can use overheated with an exile boost for ages, in supersmallscale/solo-scenarios imo the smarter choice over a second plate.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#2104 - 2013-04-23 11:32:06 UTC
Temai wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Temai wrote:
so far i dont like what i see....

looks like im gona have to say bye bye to my Hyperion... i relly like that ship to...


? This post makes no sense unless it's a troll....

Hyperion is better in pretty much every imaginable way than it was before... dual rep tank with ions and dual heavy cap injectors now fits... Dps overall is higher due to extra low and and the extra 25m3 of bandwidth... If anything the Hyperion is a bit too strong atm.




just looking at the changes comeing in im probly not gona be flying Gallan for a long time

i dont fear changed before someone screams that i just dont like the direction the change is heading in and geting told it will be better when from what i can see atm its gona be "renderd" less than other races ships in overall performance

only bright side of this is the cost of the ships will drop a lot due to the shear amount of suck added to em so i guess you can get a cheep giggle on susideing em


Dude... You're making no sense. You need to actually explain as to why the Hyperion is getting worse when you actually say it is. The reality is that the Hyperion is getting a whole hell of a lot better..... 6 Slot dual rep tank with 1 mag stab, 2x heavy cap injectors and full tackle + mwd, 6x Ions with a 50% dmg bonus, and a medium (or large if you have grid implant) nuet to finish things off. Oh yeah, and it gets a full rack of heavy drones, and another 50m3 to play with ontop of that.


I see lots of "doomsayers" like yourself claiming that the changes to gallente are game breaking however the reality is that every single one of the gallente BS is getting better outside of the nuetron gank Dominix... It's very clear that your issue is that you do in fact fear change as there is no legitimate reason to be upset with the current proposal.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2105 - 2013-04-23 11:37:46 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Dominix:

With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones. It will of course also be stronger at short range using heavy drones. As a combat battleship, its received increased hitpoints across the board, increased mass (it got its mass lowered during the hybrid buff), increased cap pool, and increased sig.

We believe this is a very exciting direction for the Dominix, and hope you will too!

I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones – no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)


I like the Domi Changes, but i still feel like its being obsoleted by the Armageddon with its changes, there isnt really any niche that puts the Domi in competition of it, i think that giving it another bonus to increase the number of drones controlled by 1 per leveand increase the bay size to 400m3 and bandwidth to 250MBit and drop the turret hard points to 2 and 1 high slot for a low. So like the following.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
(+1 Drone Controlled per level)

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 5M, 8L(+1); 2 turrets(-4) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 250(+125) / 400(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)

What do you guys think?

EDIT: reduce CPU by 10% and increase Power-grid by 25%.


I personally strognly object to 200mil battleships dishing out 1300+ sentry-dps with insane tracking/optimal bonus. And 8 lows. That is a disposable thanatos you got there <.<
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2106 - 2013-04-23 11:48:17 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Roime wrote:
You can't affect the tank with neuts = neut immunity.

ExAstra, the reason why you see the Mega as plated ship is because active armor tanking isn't fixed yet.

And the reason I see active(hybrid) tanking the Mega as a possible option is because it's partly fixed.

1600mm+LAAR fit looks like it could almost work, after they finally buff the repper base rep amounts, reduce the cap drain and cycle time, a T2 LAAR will work. We're not talking about dramatic changes, 5-10% and it's go.






You can affectt he tank. because you stop the hardeners. ASB are only RESILENT to neuts. Not immune.


ASBs are pretty much spot on. If you use a single one, it's really just a slowly working LSE with higher max HP and similiar interaction with the minmatar SB-Bonus as the passive resist bonus granted to other races' ships. Now with resistances being mildly tunes downwards, SB-bonused ships might finally create more EHP than a comparable resist-bonused set-up.
Anyways, wether using two ASBs to create an active tank, or cap booster + SB to create a tank having less peak, more sustain are equally valid choices. ASB ships - unless you don't kill the container they are getting charges from - are running out of time incredibly quickly. I personally don't see much wrong with the current state of ASBs.

Hybrid tanking the mega though is incredibly appealing, mounting a plate and a repper that you can stick between two eanms or so, making up for very long OH-durations. For 80 more mil, you even get a c-type that you can use overheated with an exile boost for ages, in supersmallscale/solo-scenarios imo the smarter choice over a second plate.



That is why I said that CCP attempt to balance ASB was wrogn, they shoudl not have touched them..... they shoudl have only limited to 1 per ship.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2107 - 2013-04-23 12:00:58 UTC
All level 5 Dominix with 5 Garde IIs (no OTLs) still had a hard time hitting a double webbed Broadsword at 50km.

I was kinda disappointed, actually.

Save the drones!
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2108 - 2013-04-23 12:31:16 UTC
ExAstra wrote:
All level 5 Dominix with 5 Garde IIs (no OTLs) still had a hard time hitting a double webbed Broadsword at 50km.

I was kinda disappointed, actually.



Your skills must be terrible... We use sentry-ishtars for station-games, and they got no issues hitting non-webbed battleships at 30. That is without 50% tracking bonus.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2109 - 2013-04-23 13:28:20 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Dominix:

With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones. It will of course also be stronger at short range using heavy drones. As a combat battleship, its received increased hitpoints across the board, increased mass (it got its mass lowered during the hybrid buff), increased cap pool, and increased sig.

We believe this is a very exciting direction for the Dominix, and hope you will too!

I also want to mention here that while the drone system overall needs looking at, we here on the balance team have some short term ideas for helping the usability of sentry drones – no timeframe on them as of yet, but its something we have in mind.

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)


I like the Domi Changes, but i still feel like its being obsoleted by the Armageddon with its changes, there isnt really any niche that puts the Domi in competition of it, i think that giving it another bonus to increase the number of drones controlled by 1 per leveand increase the bay size to 400m3 and bandwidth to 250MBit and drop the turret hard points to 2 and 1 high slot for a low. So like the following.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints
+10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
(+1 Drone Controlled per level)

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 5M, 8L(+1); 2 turrets(-4) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 250(+125) / 400(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)

What do you guys think?

EDIT: reduce CPU by 10% and increase Power-grid by 25%.

OP as hell.

The only ship I might be able to imagine CCP allowing to get the coveted (+1 Drone Control Per Level) is the Navy Dominix, though many would be opposed to that ship changing at all.
I could possibly see them doing this
*Navy Dominix*
+1 Drone Control Per Level
+10% Drone Tracking and HP
Bandwidth 250
Drone Bay 750m3

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Marxzo Andoun
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2110 - 2013-04-23 13:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Marxzo Andoun
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

The only ship I might be able to imagine CCP allowing to get the coveted (+1 Drone Control Per Level) is the Navy Dominix, though many would be opposed to that ship changing at all.
I could possibly see them doing this
*Navy Dominix*
+1 Drone Control Per Level
+10% Drone Tracking and HP
Bandwidth 250
Drone Bay 750m3


Subtract tracking bonus and playing with turret slots if need be from this (in addition to the EHP and fitting numbers for reg) would get you at a reasonable vanilla Domi.

The argument I'm seeing here is that it's too "shiny" a bonus which is pretty subjective considering a large number of ship hulls used to be able to do this way back.

The question we are unable to answer from our perspective is whether after 8 years the server load would still be an issue. If so, larger damage/utility bonus could be applied to drones while still capping at 5.

[Edit] And of course we'd be talking about 125 bandwidth +drone per level, not 250+. Drone bay on this seems too large as well.
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2111 - 2013-04-23 15:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ExAstra
Lloyd Roses wrote:
ExAstra wrote:
All level 5 Dominix with 5 Garde IIs (no OTLs) still had a hard time hitting a double webbed Broadsword at 50km.

I was kinda disappointed, actually.



Your skills must be terrible... We use sentry-ishtars for station-games, and they got no issues hitting non-webbed battleships at 30. That is without 50% tracking bonus.

1) My skills are all level 5 (any and all related to the drones). Please read.
2) You were hitting battleships, not a Broadsword (well gee that's 1/4 the sig and not slow as hell to start with). Please read.

Save the drones!
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#2112 - 2013-04-24 05:11:22 UTC
Save the DOMI !!!! Do not remove the hybrid bonus or else you'll only see projectile domies
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#2113 - 2013-04-24 09:46:30 UTC
as a dedicated dominix pilot for last several years i have to say these changes are crap ... i am going to quit for good if you ruin my ship with this crap... the double damage bonus is great and the main reason i fly it and the only reason i trained up my drone skills, large railgun spec and gallente battleship to 5.

and none of these changes will help gallente battleships its making them all worse.

I sure do hope your offering a refund for gallente trained skills in conjunction with these changes or you can kiss my accounts goodbye.

if it isnt broke dont fix it ... if it is broke then fix it right.

The dominix isnt broken its just fine but this change will ruin it.

the mega and hype are subpar and useless in fleets and that will not change with these changes it will only magnify it .... so again what are you guys doing or thinking over there?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2114 - 2013-04-24 09:58:37 UTC
Fade Azura wrote:
as a dedicated dominix pilot for last several years i have to say these changes are crap ... i am going to quit for good if you ruin my ship with this crap... the double damage bonus is great and the main reason i fly it and the only reason i trained up my drone skills, large railgun spec and gallente battleship to 5.

and none of these changes will help gallente battleships its making them all worse.

I sure do hope your offering a refund for gallente trained skills in conjunction with these changes or you can kiss my accounts goodbye.

if it isnt broke dont fix it ... if it is broke then fix it right.

The dominix isnt broken its just fine but this change will ruin it.

the mega and hype are subpar and useless in fleets and that will not change with these changes it will only magnify it .... so again what are you guys doing or thinking over there?






are you nuts? The mega and the hyperion are borderline broken now. Much more powerful than they used to be!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#2115 - 2013-04-24 10:22:47 UTC
let me explain what your doing wrong ccp


CCP-With the Hyperion moving to more of a combat/utility ship via its drones .......

wtf we already got a combat utility in the dominix and we dont need some crap regurgitated hyperion to fulfill this ....


CCP-we felt the mega could now afford to move towards a completely dedicated gun boat

umm the mega was already a dedicated gunboat ... blasters specifically ... taking away its drones doesnt change anything ... this change is just exchanging some dps numbers and making the ship use more cap which is one its main flaws already

CCP-With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones)

why would you do this since noone complained about it and everyone loves it the way it is? this is an unnedded change. the dominix is a great combat utility ship as it is stop trying to swap its roles with hyperion

CCP-We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones

the gallente fleet options do no lie in sentry drones optimal or tracking they lie in you making the other useless gallente ship viable.

this is what you need to do to make gallente viable in fleets and not **** alot of people off using domi's already.


Hyperion- 7.5% hybrid rof bonus and 7.5% to Hybrid optimal range per level
(this will make it a good mix between dmg and application for blasters using null and rails with antimatter)

this would be the armor version of the rokh favoring dmg over tank basically and would possibly see fleet representation .. much more so than the proposed version. maybe streamline the slot layout to favor this as well.

Megathron- 5% hybrid dmg bonus 5% increased armor amount per level


Gallente version of abbaddon dmg bonus instead of ROF bonus means it wont be so cap hungry. bonuses suggest fleet representation in armor fleets due to nice buffer ... should fit in well with armor doctrines using blasters or rails. adjust slots if needed accordingly.

Dominix- its just fine leave it ... its the best utility ship in the game by far already

fix things right dont re-break stuff for no reason.
Fade Azura
Weaponized Autists Cartel
#2116 - 2013-04-24 10:29:31 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Fade Azura wrote:
as a dedicated dominix pilot for last several years i have to say these changes are crap ... i am going to quit for good if you ruin my ship with this crap... the double damage bonus is great and the main reason i fly it and the only reason i trained up my drone skills, large railgun spec and gallente battleship to 5.

and none of these changes will help gallente battleships its making them all worse.

I sure do hope your offering a refund for gallente trained skills in conjunction with these changes or you can kiss my accounts goodbye.

if it isnt broke dont fix it ... if it is broke then fix it right.

The dominix isnt broken its just fine but this change will ruin it.

the mega and hype are subpar and useless in fleets and that will not change with these changes it will only magnify it .... so again what are you guys doing or thinking over there?






are you nuts? The mega and the hyperion are borderline broken now. Much more powerful than they used to be!



yeah i said they were crap basically and all these changes due to these 2 ships is the equivalent of shining up a turd ... it may look a bit nice but they are still gunna be crap and changes dont address the problems and dont fix anything and they are friggin pissing all over the domi with these changes.
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#2117 - 2013-04-24 11:38:22 UTC
fleet domis are gonna be what : a mjd, sensor booster , 6 x 1400, and sentries? God a non moving fleet, which s#its drones. Yes I can see the Domi is the new fleet ship alright.

hyperion is better btw.
mega is missing it's high slot , drones bandwidth and uses more cap so worse, with it's 8 lows i expect even more brick mentality.

I feel like they took from the mega and gave to the hyperion - why did they need to take from mega I do not know.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#2118 - 2013-04-24 12:02:21 UTC
Would it be too much to ask for a higher damage bonus to maintain the difference between gallente and amarr drone boats?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#2119 - 2013-04-24 12:39:57 UTC
Bigg Gun wrote:
fleet domis are gonna be what : a mjd, sensor booster , 6 x 1400, and sentries? God a non moving fleet, which s#its drones. Yes I can see the Domi is the new fleet ship alright.

hyperion is better btw.
mega is missing it's high slot , drones bandwidth and uses more cap so worse, with it's 8 lows i expect even more brick mentality.

I feel like they took from the mega and gave to the hyperion - why did they need to take from mega I do not know.



at least the domi cannot fir 1400mm T2 because of powergrid :P
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#2120 - 2013-04-24 13:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Bigg Gun wrote:
fleet domis are gonna be what : a mjd, sensor booster , 6 x 1400, and sentries? God a non moving fleet, which s#its drones. Yes I can see the Domi is the new fleet ship alright.

hyperion is better btw.
mega is missing it's high slot , drones bandwidth and uses more cap so worse, with it's 8 lows i expect even more brick mentality.

I feel like they took from the mega and gave to the hyperion - why did they need to take from mega I do not know.


Mega is better than it was in almost all situations. The loss of a nuet in the high does have a negative effect however the cap issues that people often claim are "game breaking" are really rather insignificant. A single heavy cap booster is way more than enough to run your guns and your mwd. As for it's dps... A larger portion of it is in guns rather than drones and with the 8th low a 3rd mag stab can be fit onto the standard plater fit. This means that the post change mega will be doing like 70+ dps compared to current mega and a couple hundred more gun dps. Gun dps is > than heavy drone dps for multiple reasons, namely overheat, and lack of travel time. Only thing the current mega proposal could use is another 25m3 drone bay, after that, there should be no complaints beyond fruitless whiners.

The hyperion as you stated, is getting much better. Infact it needs to have it's extra drone bay removed.

Domi is the one gallente proposal that has some rather justified complaints however most of it has to do with the new geddon being OP rather than the new domi being bad.