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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#3101 - 2013-05-31 23:48:06 UTC
I mostly agree with Kaarous, but the Apoc is still useful in PvE. The didn't have a Damage Bonus before, and it still hasn't. So the tracking bonus is actually more damage than before.

The Problem is that the buffed Capacitor isn't enough to make up for the lost bonus. With 8 Cap-Hungry Guns it needs to have a capacitor that allows to compensate without having to rely on cap power relays for the lowslots.

If I recall correctly they buffed the Caprecharge by 0.7/sec. And Napoc and Apoc have the exact same capacitor and recharge.

I'd like to see the caprecharge go up to maybe 0.8/sec or 0.9/sec. Even if not for the standard apoc then atleast for the navy one.
It feels kinda odd to have the navy apoc almost with the exact same stats as the standard one, when the navy geddon and geddon are so completely different.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3102 - 2013-05-31 23:54:16 UTC
Quote:
I mostly agree with Kaarous, but the Apoc is still useful in PvE. The didn't have a Damage Bonus before, and it still hasn't. So the tracking bonus is actually more damage than before.

The Problem is that the buffed Capacitor isn't enough to make up for the lost bonus. With 8 Cap-Hungry Guns it needs to have a capacitor that allows to compensate without having to rely on cap power relays for the lowslots.


This was my point entirely. Without the cap use bonus, you may as well be using the Abaddon to mission in. The resist bonus helps save you cap on repairs, and the damage bonus is just flat out better than a tracking bonus for shooting at rats.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3103 - 2013-06-01 00:26:14 UTC
TehCloud wrote:

It feels kinda odd to have the navy apoc almost with the exact same stats as the standard one ...


I've always felt it was silly and kind of wrong for the Navy version of a ship to be virtually identical to the civilian version.

Better tank, better cap, better fittings, one extra slot. A navy version should always have at least have these three things, even if only marginally.
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#3104 - 2013-06-01 00:56:46 UTC
Samas Sarum wrote:

Can you please expand on why you think it's so good? Does the neut range really make that big a difference? How do you plan on using it differently than a Curse or Bhaalgorn currently is?


The fleet people can talk about big blobs. I don't really know enough about it. My participation in fleet blobs before I gave sov the finger and left for NPC null was to sit in a drake and press F1 on command like an obedient little monkey.

For small gang and medium gangs, the new Geddon is going to be awesome.

Five geddons can remove enough cap to prevent a carrier from jumping out, and survive the fighters.

Five geddons can destroy 10-15 ships from BS down by making them nearly immobile. Machs are going to hurt against the new geddon. Sure, they have capless weapons, but without the speed they die fast.

BCs and cruisers are going to have a little less trouble because of the long cycle time, but you can always stagger the neuts.

I do worry about the Curse though - not so much about the Pilgrim. The new geddon is going to make it near obsolete. I don't see a point in bringing a curse when you can bring a couple of geddons. They just have much higher survivability.

But T2 ships are in line for a tiericide after this patch, I believe.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here

J A Aloysiusz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3105 - 2013-06-01 02:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: J A Aloysiusz
Kharamete wrote:
Samas Sarum wrote:

Can you please expand on why you think it's so good? Does the neut range really make that big a difference? How do you plan on using it differently than a Curse or Bhaalgorn currently is?


The fleet people can talk about big blobs. I don't really know enough about it. My participation in fleet blobs before I gave sov the finger and left for NPC null was to sit in a drake and press F1 on command like an obedient little monkey.

For small gang and medium gangs, the new Geddon is going to be awesome.

Five geddons can remove enough cap to prevent a carrier from jumping out, and survive the fighters.

Five geddons can destroy 10-15 ships from BS down by making them nearly immobile. Machs are going to hurt against the new geddon. Sure, they have capless weapons, but without the speed they die fast.

BCs and cruisers are going to have a little less trouble because of the long cycle time, but you can always stagger the neuts.

I do worry about the Curse though - not so much about the Pilgrim. The new geddon is going to make it near obsolete. I don't see a point in bringing a curse when you can bring a couple of geddons. They just have much higher survivability.

But T2 ships are in line for a tiericide after this patch, I believe.


All this was true (edit: true about the dominix) before the 'geddon got an irrelevant range bonus, except for the mach part. The only time added range helps on a neut is vs kitey tackle. And if you're basing a ship on its epic prowess fending off tacklers, perhaps you should reconsider its actual effectiveness.

Edit: that being said, I'm glad to see these ships won't be as similar as before.
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3106 - 2013-06-01 15:03:27 UTC
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
Kharamete wrote:
Samas Sarum wrote:

Can you please expand on why you think it's so good? Does the neut range really make that big a difference? How do you plan on using it differently than a Curse or Bhaalgorn currently is?


The fleet people can talk about big blobs. I don't really know enough about it. My participation in fleet blobs before I gave sov the finger and left for NPC null was to sit in a drake and press F1 on command like an obedient little monkey.

For small gang and medium gangs, the new Geddon is going to be awesome.

Five geddons can remove enough cap to prevent a carrier from jumping out, and survive the fighters.

Five geddons can destroy 10-15 ships from BS down by making them nearly immobile. Machs are going to hurt against the new geddon. Sure, they have capless weapons, but without the speed they die fast.

BCs and cruisers are going to have a little less trouble because of the long cycle time, but you can always stagger the neuts.

I do worry about the Curse though - not so much about the Pilgrim. The new geddon is going to make it near obsolete. I don't see a point in bringing a curse when you can bring a couple of geddons. They just have much higher survivability.

But T2 ships are in line for a tiericide after this patch, I believe.


All this was true (edit: true about the dominix) before the 'geddon got an irrelevant range bonus, except for the mach part. The only time added range helps on a neut is vs kitey tackle. And if you're basing a ship on its epic prowess fending off tacklers, perhaps you should reconsider its actual effectiveness.

Edit: that being said, I'm glad to see these ships won't be as similar as before.


Agreed, I was more asking why the Geddon lovers believe the range bonus is going to "own" and be awesome? The argument was brought up before that you can fit some other BS's with more neuts due to Geddon PG issues and still do more dps. Drone bonuses typically aren't useful in fleet ships, so why not use another BS that can fit more neuts and have better dps? The range helps against kitey ships as was said before but the Geddon is a brick and probably won't be wasting PG and cap on a prop (I could be wrong) so who is going to stay in the 45km distance that wouldn't have already stayed in the 30km distance without a bonus?
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3107 - 2013-06-01 15:08:00 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
I mostly agree with Kaarous, but the Apoc is still useful in PvE. The didn't have a Damage Bonus before, and it still hasn't. So the tracking bonus is actually more damage than before.

The Problem is that the buffed Capacitor isn't enough to make up for the lost bonus. With 8 Cap-Hungry Guns it needs to have a capacitor that allows to compensate without having to rely on cap power relays for the lowslots.

If I recall correctly they buffed the Caprecharge by 0.7/sec. And Napoc and Apoc have the exact same capacitor and recharge.

I'd like to see the caprecharge go up to maybe 0.8/sec or 0.9/sec. Even if not for the standard apoc then atleast for the navy one.
It feels kinda odd to have the navy apoc almost with the exact same stats as the standard one, when the navy geddon and geddon are so completely different.


Even before Odyssey the Apoc wasn't all that useful in PvE, the Geddon was far better unless you really needed the sniper range.

The math was done previously in this thread, the tracking bonus only helps against perfectly orbiting cruisers which aren't really an issue in PvE (and most PvP). It's somewhat obvious to me that the bonus change was pushed through by 0.0 pilots hoping to better combat ABC fleets, non-fleet or PvE need not apply (as is the case for most of these T1 ships).
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#3108 - 2013-06-01 19:36:17 UTC
The reason these changes seem to be creating more stink than the frigateand cruiser ones is, they added no role bonus.

As an example if the Geddon had a Neutralizer activation role bonus either to drain or activation cost, it would look like the cheaper and single nation roles version of the Bhaalgorn they seem to want it to be. Bhaalgorn would still be superior with webber and 100% damage bonus but fielding a neut boat Geddon would be more obvious in large scale engagements where a Bhaalgorn would be an obvious bulls eye.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3109 - 2013-06-01 21:40:20 UTC
Ioci wrote:
The reason these changes seem to be creating more stink than the frigateand cruiser ones is, they added no role bonus.

As an example if the Geddon had a Neutralizer activation role bonus either to drain or activation cost, it would look like the cheaper and single nation roles version of the Bhaalgorn they seem to want it to be. Bhaalgorn would still be superior with webber and 100% damage bonus but fielding a neut boat Geddon would be more obvious in large scale engagements where a Bhaalgorn would be an obvious bulls eye.



I think the most stink comes from fundamentally changing the roles of 2 out of the 3 ships and the 3rd one just got a nerf and nothing else. Compare this to the Minmitar and Gallente changes and I don't blame them. You may like the new roles on both the ships but it still means that every previous owner that doesn't has to shell out the isk for a new ship.
John 1135
#3110 - 2013-06-01 22:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: John 1135
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I mostly agree with Kaarous, but the Apoc is still useful in PvE. The didn't have a Damage Bonus before, and it still hasn't. So the tracking bonus is actually more damage than before.

The Problem is that the buffed Capacitor isn't enough to make up for the lost bonus. With 8 Cap-Hungry Guns it needs to have a capacitor that allows to compensate without having to rely on cap power relays for the lowslots.


This was my point entirely. Without the cap use bonus, you may as well be using the Abaddon to mission in. The resist bonus helps save you cap on repairs, and the damage bonus is just flat out better than a tracking bonus for shooting at rats.

It does look like Apoc/Napoc will be left high-and-dry by these changes. Abaddon replaces it in most roles. I'm not saying the Abaddon is ideal, just better than new Apoc. And Navy 'geddon in roles that use faction versions.

I rely on other posters for checking this through the turret damage formula, but if they are correct then the range-band at which the bonus tracking significantly impacts DPS doesn't feel useful. What might have been interesting is a gun-sig reduction bonus. The golden fleet can always use a fly swatter.
J A Aloysiusz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3111 - 2013-06-01 22:36:57 UTC
Ioci wrote:
The reason these changes seem to be creating more stink than the frigateand cruiser ones is, they added no role bonus.

As an example if the Geddon had a Neutralizer activation role bonus either to drain or activation cost, it would look like the cheaper and single nation roles version of the Bhaalgorn they seem to want it to be. Bhaalgorn would still be superior with webber and 100% damage bonus but fielding a neut boat Geddon would be more obvious in large scale engagements where a Bhaalgorn would be an obvious bulls eye.



I think this is an interesting idea; I'll piggyback...

What if the 'geddon was modified to occupy a niche like the scorpion? (the scorpion has 3 ship bonuses - 2 to ecm, 1 to ECM burst). It's always seemed awkward to me that the scorpion is the only ship in its "disruption" class. The addition of a +5% neut amount per level would help define the Armageddon's (currently ambiguous) role, as well as give the scorpion a peer.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#3112 - 2013-06-01 23:05:41 UTC
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
Ioci wrote:
The reason these changes seem to be creating more stink than the frigateand cruiser ones is, they added no role bonus.

As an example if the Geddon had a Neutralizer activation role bonus either to drain or activation cost, it would look like the cheaper and single nation roles version of the Bhaalgorn they seem to want it to be. Bhaalgorn would still be superior with webber and 100% damage bonus but fielding a neut boat Geddon would be more obvious in large scale engagements where a Bhaalgorn would be an obvious bulls eye.



I think this is an interesting idea; I'll piggyback...

What if the 'geddon was modified to occupy a niche like the scorpion? (the scorpion has 3 ship bonuses - 2 to ecm, 1 to ECM burst). It's always seemed awkward to me that the scorpion is the only ship in its "disruption" class. The addition of a +5% neut amount per level would help define the Armageddon's (currently ambiguous) role, as well as give the scorpion a peer.


And to expand the idea a bit further, put an ECM burst on the scorp in roles not tied to level and make it 125% Add drone ECM bonus too. An ECM burst roles bonus makes a Scorp harder to drone mob, that is very Caldari of it.

For Phoon, it could be a webber boat with web role bonus. Ideally to web range as the 10km makes it a frigate module for all practical purpose. Having a Webber phoon is pretty Minmatar. Keep you where I want you so I can shoot you or get the hell out when I need to. Target Painting Phoon wouldn't be as attractive but it would work too.

Neut for Geddon. The only high slot role based ship but neuting is also hand over fist the most cap taxing of the roles.

Sensor Damp for Domi. The virtue being obvious. You need to get a little closer and getting a little closer to a Gallente fleet is usually a very bad idea.

Bonus to both the module and the drone respective. I'm not going to pretend any of this will change the face of warfare in EVE but a diversified choice will open the door and it will put the horse before the cart for a change. Tools in, then see where you can change it to make EVE less about blobbing damage.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3113 - 2013-06-01 23:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Samas Sarum
John 1135 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I mostly agree with Kaarous, but the Apoc is still useful in PvE. The didn't have a Damage Bonus before, and it still hasn't. So the tracking bonus is actually more damage than before.

The Problem is that the buffed Capacitor isn't enough to make up for the lost bonus. With 8 Cap-Hungry Guns it needs to have a capacitor that allows to compensate without having to rely on cap power relays for the lowslots.


This was my point entirely. Without the cap use bonus, you may as well be using the Abaddon to mission in. The resist bonus helps save you cap on repairs, and the damage bonus is just flat out better than a tracking bonus for shooting at rats.

It does look like Apoc/Napoc will be left high-and-dry by these changes. Abaddon replaces it in most roles. I'm not saying the Abaddon is ideal, just better than new Apoc. And Navy 'geddon in roles that use faction versions.

I rely on other posters for checking this through the turret damage formula, but if they are correct then the range-band at which the bonus tracking significantly impacts DPS doesn't feel useful. What might have been interesting is a gun-sig reduction bonus. The golden fleet can always use a fly swatter.


Eh, I don't want a 2nd niche ship alongside the Geddon. Just lower the turret count and give it a damage bonus to compensate, perhaps putting it just below the dps of a Baddon but with the lower turret count able to fit Tach's or just be the low-SP/mission friendly ship that is easier to fit like the other races have.
J A Aloysiusz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3114 - 2013-06-01 23:49:01 UTC
Ioci wrote:
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
Ioci wrote:
The reason these changes seem to be creating more stink than the frigateand cruiser ones is, they added no role bonus.

As an example if the Geddon had a Neutralizer activation role bonus either to drain or activation cost, it would look like the cheaper and single nation roles version of the Bhaalgorn they seem to want it to be. Bhaalgorn would still be superior with webber and 100% damage bonus but fielding a neut boat Geddon would be more obvious in large scale engagements where a Bhaalgorn would be an obvious bulls eye.



I think this is an interesting idea; I'll piggyback...

What if the 'geddon was modified to occupy a niche like the scorpion? (the scorpion has 3 ship bonuses - 2 to ecm, 1 to ECM burst). It's always seemed awkward to me that the scorpion is the only ship in its "disruption" class. The addition of a +5% neut amount per level would help define the Armageddon's (currently ambiguous) role, as well as give the scorpion a peer.


And to expand the idea a bit further, put an ECM burst on the scorp in roles not tied to level and make it 125% Add drone ECM bonus too. An ECM burst roles bonus makes a Scorp harder to drone mob, that is very Caldari of it.

For Phoon, it could be a webber boat with web role bonus. Ideally to web range as the 10km makes it a frigate module for all practical purpose. Having a Webber phoon is pretty Minmatar. Keep you where I want you so I can shoot you or get the hell out when I need to. Target Painting Phoon wouldn't be as attractive but it would work too.

Neut for Geddon. The only high slot role based ship but neuting is also hand over fist the most cap taxing of the roles.

Sensor Damp for Domi. The virtue being obvious. You need to get a little closer and getting a little closer to a Gallente fleet is usually a very bad idea.

Bonus to both the module and the drone respective. I'm not going to pretend any of this will change the face of warfare in EVE but a diversified choice will open the door and it will put the horse before the cart for a change. Tools in, then see where you can change it to make EVE less about blobbing damage.


I can tell you now that web phoon is a negative; CCP flat-out refuses to put a web bonus on any standard T1 ships. I also believe a role bonus is just about out of the question as well, but who knows.

And personally, I think having only caldari+amarr "disruption" boats would be optimal. Gallente will have some added variation with the drone-oriented dominix, and active/passive (though I feel Mega should be combat and the hyperion should be attack, which fits better with an active tank, as it does not penalize speed/mobility), and the minmatar lineup already feels solid to me.

I suspect a goal with the geddon change was to keep the spirit of the old typhoon alive, but the old phoon was strong mostly due to its maximum damage potential, and speed. Doing the same on the geddon would completely waste any benefit of the (already barely useful) neut bonus, and the typhoon + fleet phoon are still far better choices.

Overall, I think odyssey's iteration of the amarr lineup relieves the "abaddon stepping on toes" issue, but leaves the geddon in a very ambiguous position. The addition of a drone bonus is strong, but having missiles, turrets, and neuts - all without a damage/strength bonus - leaves it feeling weak and uncertain.
J A Aloysiusz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3115 - 2013-06-02 01:02:41 UTC
I'd also like to point out that the 'geddon will have the lowest potential energy neutralization of the Amarr line (as the others have 1 more high slot). It's clearly drawn the short stick here.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3116 - 2013-06-02 01:09:45 UTC
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the 'geddon will have the lowest potential energy neutralization of the Amarr line (as the others have 1 more high slot). It's clearly drawn the short stick here.


True. But, the reason it will make the best neut platform of the Amarr Battleships anyway is because it has a viable source of dps besides it's high slots. It has drones.

The other battleships, yes they can fit an extra neut compared to the Geddon. But to back it up, all they have is unbonused drones. Meh.

Especially for small gang work, where you can't just outsource the dps to the other guys in the fleet, it works very well.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

J A Aloysiusz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3117 - 2013-06-02 01:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: J A Aloysiusz
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the 'geddon will have the lowest potential energy neutralization of the Amarr line (as the others have 1 more high slot). It's clearly drawn the short stick here.


True. But, the reason it will make the best neut platform of the Amarr Battleships anyway is because it has a viable source of dps besides it's high slots. It has drones.

The other battleships, yes they can fit an extra neut compared to the Geddon. But to back it up, all they have is unbonused drones. Meh.

Especially for small gang work, where you can't just outsource the dps to the other guys in the fleet, it works very well.


I agree, but wouldn't a dominix work just as well, if not better? A dominix's tracking+optimal gardes could make short work of ranged tacklers, thus nullifying the only real benefit of ranged neuts. The addition of a 5% neut amount would bring the geddon in line with the scorpion as a disruption boat, and set it apart from the dominix, which currently overshadows it, in my opinion.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3118 - 2013-06-02 01:29:13 UTC
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the 'geddon will have the lowest potential energy neutralization of the Amarr line (as the others have 1 more high slot). It's clearly drawn the short stick here.


True. But, the reason it will make the best neut platform of the Amarr Battleships anyway is because it has a viable source of dps besides it's high slots. It has drones.

The other battleships, yes they can fit an extra neut compared to the Geddon. But to back it up, all they have is unbonused drones. Meh.

Especially for small gang work, where you can't just outsource the dps to the other guys in the fleet, it works very well.


I agree, but wouldn't a dominix work just as well, if not better? A dominix's tracking+optimal gardes could make short work of ranged tacklers, thus nullifying the only real benefit of ranged neuts. The addition of a 5% neut amount would bring the geddon in line with the scorpion as a disruption boat, and set it apart from the dominix, which currently overshadows it, in my opinion.



I can easily see the immense range of the Geddon coming into play more often than the Domi's tracking bonus. Neut amount just crosses into the territory of the Bhaalgorn, and I can see why they didn't want to do that.

Idk how you see the Domi overshadowing it, to be honest. Yeah the Domi has a lot better defenses, but you fit better on the Geddon since it has about 3500 more PG. It will make for the more effective boat for the role, imo. Which explains, at least to me, why the Gallente have pitched such a fevered whine about their Domi now. They think we've beat them out for the battleship drone role, and I honestly agree.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#3119 - 2013-06-02 01:57:41 UTC
John 1135 wrote:
It does look like Apoc/Napoc will be left high-and-dry by these changes. Abaddon replaces it in most roles. I'm not saying the Abaddon is ideal, just better than new Apoc. And Navy 'geddon in roles that use faction versions.

I rely on other posters for checking this through the turret damage formula, but if they are correct then the range-band at which the bonus tracking significantly impacts DPS doesn't feel useful. What might have been interesting is a gun-sig reduction bonus. The golden fleet can always use a fly swatter.


Why do you think it is a clever idea to suggest a new bonus if you don't understand the tracking formula yourself? For example 400 signature resolution vs 320 sig means a you get a 20% tracking penalty(3.2/4 = 0.8). Turret sig resolution is a simple tracking modifier, and a reduction is exactly the same as a tracking bonus. It is quite similar to 2008, where people didn't understand that blasters received a 400% nerf with the scram and web changes for effective tracking at point blank and that the maxed out 1600 DPS gank mega went from face ****(like killing sub bs hulls in 30s or less at point blank) to useless for solo pvp.

To give you a little hint about apoc vs abaddon in fleet pvp after the patch, try to think about a BS doctrine can outgank a apoc fleet at a range that the apoc fleet chose, since other formats are not able to dictate range against it and sig/speed tanking gang concepts that can migrate damage against 10 times the effective tracking of a neutron blaster fitted megathron(that is comparing 90% webed targets to unwebed targets, just to give you a idea). They got a range window of zero meters, where they can operate without getting owned(this is why I pointed out that Rise will get massive issues if he wants to balance HACs with the current apoc changes).

I am pretty sure no one wants to fly the new apoc after patch and the guys from PL just trolled you be calling the changes pretty good. What?

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

J A Aloysiusz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3120 - 2013-06-02 02:12:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the 'geddon will have the lowest potential energy neutralization of the Amarr line (as the others have 1 more high slot). It's clearly drawn the short stick here.


True. But, the reason it will make the best neut platform of the Amarr Battleships anyway is because it has a viable source of dps besides it's high slots. It has drones.

The other battleships, yes they can fit an extra neut compared to the Geddon. But to back it up, all they have is unbonused drones. Meh.

Especially for small gang work, where you can't just outsource the dps to the other guys in the fleet, it works very well.


I agree, but wouldn't a dominix work just as well, if not better? A dominix's tracking+optimal gardes could make short work of ranged tacklers, thus nullifying the only real benefit of ranged neuts. The addition of a 5% neut amount would bring the geddon in line with the scorpion as a disruption boat, and set it apart from the dominix, which currently overshadows it, in my opinion.



I can easily see the immense range of the Geddon coming into play more often than the Domi's tracking bonus. Neut amount just crosses into the territory of the Bhaalgorn, and I can see why they didn't want to do that.

Idk how you see the Domi overshadowing it, to be honest. Yeah the Domi has a lot better defenses, but you fit better on the Geddon since it has about 3500 more PG. It will make for the more effective boat for the role, imo. Which explains, at least to me, why the Gallente have pitched such a fevered whine about their Domi now. They think we've beat them out for the battleship drone role, and I honestly agree.


Fair points, but notice the Mega has a 25% damage + 60% web, 2/3 of the vindi's 37.5% damage + 90% web. Using this as comparison, one could hardly say a 5% geddon would cross into the realm of the whopping 15% bhaal.

I do agree with you when you say the geddon is stepping on the dominix's toes. I think we can agree they're too similar, and could use some differentiation? Since Gallente is the primary drone race, one could argue the geddon should have a slightly lower (7.5%, maybe?) damage bonus.