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WH "Coalitions" Blobs, Blue Lists, and bob.

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Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#201 - 2013-04-18 22:06:08 UTC
Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

you soooo don't get the issue...

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Hoxothul
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2013-04-18 22:09:51 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

you soooo don't get the issue...


I do, I was referring to the poster above me.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#203 - 2013-04-19 00:05:41 UTC
Hoxothul wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

you soooo don't get the issue...

I do, I was referring to the poster above me.

no, you dont.
there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue.
in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Calexis Atredies
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#204 - 2013-04-19 00:28:41 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

you soooo don't get the issue...

I do, I was referring to the poster above me.

no, you dont.
there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue.
in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.


We have a winner!

It's reasuring to see that some capsuleers have enough sense to see the situation for what it is, you sir at least have the wit to see through the politcal charade being played before us. *tips hat* Honestly AHARM are not my favourite group, their monopolisation of the C6 wormholes makes me sad, but at least they sit on the fence in this issue.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2013-04-19 06:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Calexis Atredies wrote:

The large coalitions that are forming amongst wormholes is mostly due to ego and carebearing, people unwilling to put their ISK on the line for a fair fight (or trusting the other group to blob them). You are all essentially guilty of stirring the bucket of sh** in one way or another.

Scratch your blue lists, honour a gentleman's agreement in WH to limit yourselfeves to X pilots for a takedown/invasion and have some fun. You would all have to agree to such guidlines ofc, perhaps even as a community "police" those who break said agreement. Write up threads for active invasions on the forums, chat to each other, no reason why there cannot be mutual respect between warring groups. This is essentially the same principals of RvB.

You will be doing yourselves and wormhole space a favour, no longer will you have to worry about being swarmed and you might even get some "good fights". Who cares if you lose a fleet, we are all filthy rich and most of us have more money that we could ever spend on PVP. Of course those who are in it for the money would not be all too fond of this proposal, but honestly speaking, they are whats killing the community and their time will come...


This post is a huge contradiction IMO.

People don't just become blues on a whim, they do it because they have a mutual respect for each other as a result of diplomatic interaction. This enables them to have these gentlemanly agreements and over time, they naturally become blues during times that call for a combined force. You can't have gentleman agreement without having blues.

I think we are all going around in circles here. In my opinion, it is not down to the players to create some arbitrary rule set to police the actions of wormhole residence. I wouldn't want to live in wormhole space where the wormhole overlords dictate what can and can't happen in wormholes, do you?

I believe it is down to CCP to create more conflict drivers to encourage the big groups to fight each other because they have a vested interest in winning.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#206 - 2013-04-19 06:40:02 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
People don't just become blues on a whim, they do it because they have a mutual respect for each other as a result of diplomatic interaction.

This is such utter garbage I don't know where to start.
Sure, most group wont' temp blue some corps for whatever the reason but generally the way these coalitions work is something like this:

corp a: 'lets go shoot corp b!'
corp b: 'oh no, we're being shot!! quick, convo every diplo contact for any corp above 10 members we have in the books and get them to save us!'
corp a: 'great, now we're severely outnumbered with zero chance of winning. i know, lets convo every diplo contact for any corp we have in our books!'

there are some exceptions but recently it's been very much like this.

Quote:
*tips hat* Honestly AHARM are not my favourite group, their monopolisation of the C6 wormholes makes me sad, but at least they sit on the fence in this issue.

i guess i should point out again that I speak for myself and not my corp...
also, I find it adorable that people still think aharm monopolizes c6 space. it's too cute :)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#207 - 2013-04-19 07:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
^ Nice theory jack but it doesn't work like that. People join forces with the expectation of getting a big fight or as a favour. Their relationship has already be formed by those groups previously having good fights and good diplomatic talkes. Many of the big corps share a incestriouse relationship due to being in old corps together such as narwhals.

So althought I feel silly saying this as you should know what you are talking about, in this case I have to say that you are talking out your arse.
Rengas
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#208 - 2013-04-19 07:46:50 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
in this case I have to say that you are talking our your arse.

Welcome to every thread on every forum on the internet.

Also I have absolutely zero respect for anyone in EVE.





Except Messorooz.
Meytal
Doomheim
#209 - 2013-04-19 12:47:51 UTC
Calexis Atredies wrote:
The large coalitions that are forming amongst wormholes is mostly due to ego and carebearing, people unwilling to put their ISK on the line for a fair fight (or trusting the other group to blob them). You are all essentially guilty of stirring the bucket of sh** in one way or another.

Or, y'know, it could be that mutual respect is forming between groups as they get to know one another. My alliance recently flew on a large op with a former "bitter enemy" alliance. Come to find out, they were far from the evil raiders hell-bent on petty rage and griefing. They were actually a great bunch of guys with a good sense of humour, and I'd be happy to fly with them again. I'd be just as happy to shoot them again, and I know they would understand it's not personal; we could go hang out afterward, poke fun at each other, and have a good laugh at it all.

Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?

These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

It is the way of W-space.

I'm not sure what some people want ... if you shoot someone, you are forever enemies and may fly together peacefully again, to take everything personally? I'd like to think that people in W-space are a little more mature than the average Nullbear. And besides, if I befriend someone, I want to come to my friend's aid in time of trouble. If my friend acts the idiot, I'll call him an idiot but still help him out. Why should human nature suddenly cease to exist when you cross the threshold to the online world? The negative personality aspects certainly continue, so I should hope the positives would as well.
Calexis Atredies
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#210 - 2013-04-20 11:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Calexis Atredies
Meytal wrote:
Calexis Atredies wrote:
The large coalitions that are forming amongst wormholes is mostly due to ego and carebearing, people unwilling to put their ISK on the line for a fair fight (or trusting the other group to blob them). You are all essentially guilty of stirring the bucket of sh** in one way or another.

Or, y'know, it could be that mutual respect is forming between groups as they get to know one another. My alliance recently flew on a large op with a former "bitter enemy" alliance. Come to find out, they were far from the evil raiders hell-bent on petty rage and griefing. They were actually a great bunch of guys with a good sense of humour, and I'd be happy to fly with them again. I'd be just as happy to shoot them again, and I know they would understand it's not personal; we could go hang out afterward, poke fun at each other, and have a good laugh at it all.


Mutual respect doesn't equate to help out the other side when they bat phone, thats blue standings or a coalition.

I dunno how diplomacy works in SAK, but simply put you fail to understand that by "being brosefs" when "sh*t gets real" you are escalating an engagement which should have been an AD-HOC pvp encounter between two groups.

If group "Loser 1" wants to attack group "Loser 2" and group Loser 1 had 30 ships to group Loser 2's 40, group Loser 1 dont need to bat need to bat phone group "Loser 3" to bring another 30 guys, thats anti-pvp. You now have numeric imbalance that means Loser 2 wont fight because they are unlikely to have a chance of a good fight and are themselves going to attempt to bring in their own brosefs.

Feel free to ask Loser 3 to bring 10 guys if you absolutely must, but don't raise the stakes higher than the chips the other guy already has down on the table. Grow a pair and take a risk of losing, sometimes a close battle lost is alot more fun that a turkey shoot and its definately more fun than blue balls.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#211 - 2013-04-22 11:32:28 UTC
I enjoy a turkey shoot once in a while to be totally honest.

No trolling please
WarGod
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#212 - 2013-04-23 08:46:25 UTC
I believe i have solved this problem. I just spend the last 3 hours setting blue everyone who lives in WHs.. (apart from Rengas who is -10 untill that Etana dies).
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#213 - 2013-04-23 11:32:28 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

you soooo don't get the issue...

I do, I was referring to the poster above me.

no, you dont.
there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue.
in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.


"People will blue up when it matters."

Thats the single most insightful comment yet on any EVE related forum.

True story.

What about the scenarios where people blue up when it doesn't matter? Or is the act of setting someone blue equal to the case actually mattering?

I wonder.

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#214 - 2013-04-23 12:21:04 UTC
Old ladies screaming at each other, love this thread.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Rengas
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#215 - 2013-04-23 12:55:39 UTC
WarGod wrote:
I believe i have solved this problem. I just spend the last 3 hours setting blue everyone who lives in WHs.. (apart from Rengas who is -10 untill that Etana dies).

Don't worry I have Aegis.
WarGod
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#216 - 2013-04-23 13:33:59 UTC
Rengas wrote:
WarGod wrote:
I believe i have solved this problem. I just spend the last 3 hours setting blue everyone who lives in WHs.. (apart from Rengas who is -10 untill that Etana dies).

Don't worry I have Aegis.


At the 12:55 mark.

I am not impressed.
Dr Agropoly
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2013-04-23 13:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Agropoly
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

you soooo don't get the issue...

I do, I was referring to the poster above me.

no, you dont.
there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue.
in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.



This is not how a perceive things at all. Both when it comes to us and the people we have frequent interaction with we do not give any fucks about who was once blue when we enter e 3-way , we might help any side or just go for the surprise buttseks depending on what we think will give the most enjoyment at the time. I know this is not the case for all corps though and some people just don't know what a fun fight is and just care about a green killboard. Far to many times have we all seen "notable" wormhole corps run away screaming like 14 year old girls when they have even numbers just to come back with 7 guardians and 4 Bhaals to counter our 10 man fleet.

All in all it is a sandbox though and even if my word really should be law funnily enough it isn't Roll
You may play the game any way you choose but that doesn't stop me from calling you a flippin ****** and idiot both behind your back and to you face.
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#218 - 2013-04-25 22:32:09 UTC
Dr Agropoly wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Hoxothul wrote:
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?
These coalitions don't have perma blues. It's temporarily every time. And a few days after we are happily shooting each other again.

you soooo don't get the issue...

I do, I was referring to the poster above me.

no, you dont.
there's functionally no difference between groups that shoot each other normally but team up whenever it matters and groups that are perma blue.
in both cases they will be blue in any fight with a 3rd party so the distinction youre making doesnt exist.



This is not how a perceive things at all. Both when it comes to us and the people we have frequent interaction with we do not give any fucks about who was once blue when we enter e 3-way , we might help any side or just go for the surprise buttseks depending on what we think will give the most enjoyment at the time. I know this is not the case for all corps though and some people just don't know what a fun fight is and just care about a green killboard. Far to many times have we all seen "notable" wormhole corps run away screaming like 14 year old girls when they have even numbers just to come back with 7 guardians and 4 Bhaals to counter our 10 man fleet.

All in all it is a sandbox though and even if my word really should be law funnily enough it isn't Roll
You may play the game any way you choose but that doesn't stop me from calling you a flippin ****** and idiot both behind your back and to you face.



Thats all fine and dandy... but to really make sure your enemies are enraged and attack you. You have to make fun of their mothers with a kazahkstan reference in there. Then they will bring the hate.
Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2013-04-26 01:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahost Gceo
Since the OP's example was Polarized, I feel I should let him and the community reading this know that there was a recent shift in the command structure of the alliance, and that dealings between others and the alliance will be handled differently.

Preferably with more pew.Shocked

Edit: Left out a word.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.
Guile SONICBOOM
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2013-04-27 22:34:13 UTC
Ahost Gceo wrote:
Since the OP's example was Polarized, I feel I should let him and the community reading this know that there was a recent shift in the command structure of the alliance, and that dealings between others and the alliance will be handled differently.

Preferably with more pew.Shocked

Edit: Left out a word.


And less nullsec.