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carebears are scaring off noobs with boredom.

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Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#121 - 2013-04-08 01:17:06 UTC
New levels of r-tard right here . . . The first "won't someone please think of the children!" post I've seen on a freaking video game forum.

Ever.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2013-04-08 01:18:08 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
That's exactly the kind of idiotic **** that we're talking about.


What's idiotic is trying to force players to play YOUR way.

Humans aren't robots, each will learn differently and in their own time.

Best way to learn a game -- and why high-sec exists -- is to do it step-by-step. Learning how to fly. Learning the UI. Learning the lingo to even communicate.

It's not a FPS shooter, throw them into the fire. Here you lose more than your life, and paying for it isn't fun.

Thus, many would prefer study time (if for anything to see if they even like the game to even want to bother with 0.0).

0.0 is advanced gameplay. No way how it's sliced, it's where the vets play. That's not the environment for new players, in a skill based game, and the player doesn't have the skills to be but cannon fodder.

That's not fun.

When I brought my sister into gaming she was over 50 years-old. It took her 2 weeks as it is to get used to the mouse to move in a 3D environment. If you never grew up into computing, something that simple is very disorientating. It took her about 2 years to catch up, and now I'm hearing she wants to host raids and raid lead (something I never thought I'd hear, and never expected).

That was all possible by letting her get acquainted to gaming on her terms. I made mistakes trying to show her as the whiz kid "how it's done", but then remembered what she taught me as a kid..."if you want to do it, do it yourself". Sure enough, letting her fall and scrape her knees she learned by doing. And now she even outgears me. Ugh

Each player is their own. Each will learn on a time scale to themself. Each will see the process differently.

Thinking, demanding, forcing won't change that.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2013-04-08 01:19:29 UTC
Cryxx Nadoa wrote:
They make their own women? Is that even legal?

And to the op: enjoying mining dosnt mean I've failed at pvp.
I'm starting to wonder if this isn't about you wanting all the new players in low sec so you can blow them up instead of fighting someone with experience.



When did I ever suggest that mining equals failing at pvp?

Stop rambling on about how I just hate miners and actually realize what the topic is about.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2013-04-08 01:22:21 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
you can always hangout in your starter school for a while. some of them have stuff on and they have the advantage of not having to worry about wardecs, so folks can PvP or carebear or both.

the major downside is that low is tricky.

I doubt you will find much success in a starter corp doing pvp, you need isk and some help to be successful at pvp.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#125 - 2013-04-08 01:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Best way to learn a game -- and why high-sec exists -- is to do it step-by-step. Learning how to fly. Learning the UI. Learning the lingo to even communicate.
…and the problem is that if they get caught up in a carebear corp, they will not learn those things properly. Oh, and no, the reason highsec exists is not to teach people to play the game.

Quote:
0.0 is advanced gameplay. No way how it's sliced, it's where the vets play.
…and the newbs who want to. It's no harder to learn than highsec (in fact, in many ways it's easier since things are much more black and white), and the history of the game shows without any doubt that newbies who get picked up and transferred there can and will thrive just fine.

Quote:
Each player is their own. Each will learn on a time scale to themself. Each will see the process differently.
…but no matter what, holding people back, deliberately or accidentally, due to a lack of ability to provide guidance will not help them and is in fact more likely than anything to harm their learning experience.
Fairren
HellrisCorp
#126 - 2013-04-08 01:27:40 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
The first "won't someone please think of the children!" post I've seen on a freaking video game forum.

Ever.

You must be new here.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-04-08 01:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Solstice Project wrote:
Wappler ...


OPs point isn't the usual **** you talk about, although you like to see exactly that.

Nobody in this thread here is forcing anybodies playstyle onto anybody else.

What he's talking about is denial of realization of possibilities.

The very fact that new people have no idea what's going on
and have full trust in what the older people, from the very corp they have joined, tell them.

It's on the same level as carebears in noobcorps telling new people to never go to lowsec
because they'll die fast and that's bad. Instead of teaching them, they just tell them to avoid it.

That's the issue. Not showing new people the possibilities and forcing them into a specific
train of thought. Most highsec corps really *are* crap. If any of you wappler (that's an Austrian insult, btw)
really cared, you'd talk to more new people out there and you'd find a LOT of them in corps
that mostly don't care or try to force them into THEIR playstyle ... which is EXACTLY what you guys complain about.

But you only complain about it if the "PvP"ers talk about it ... and not the other way round.


I even have a factual example from a guy ingame.

Once, in Osmon, there was this guy in a carebear salvaging corp called Pro Synergy.
I can't forget that name, because it's sounds seriously gay. lol

Anyway, that guy asked me if we could team up and gank something ... and so we did.

The consequences out of this were that the alliance chat heated up 300%, once they saw the killmail.
People demanded him to be removed from the corp, the CEO apologized to our victim and sent him
DOUBLE the amount of his loss, which was one of these shiny new frigates, i can't even recall.

People like them, not actually accepting the realities of the game, are the issue. It doesn't matter if you
prefer PvE or PvP ... what matters is that everybody should simply understand the reality of the game,
but many people don't !

Many people deny new people actual gameplay, either by telling them their biased views ...
... (and thus spreading them) ...
... or by completely denying certain playstyles to them.

Now comes the "then he can find a better corp" argument ... and i wished it was true,
but it simply isn't that easy. It isn't. I know you don't believe me, but i have talked to MANY new people
and there are MANY highsec corps out there that are simply CRAP, with crappy CEOs and crappy goals,
teaching new people CRAP about the game ... or only half of what it's worth ... or not teaching them at all !

That's not my personal opinion, it's paraphrased of what the other people tell me.
A really good highsec corp, that actually teaches their members well,
that doesn't FORCE A SPECIFIC PLAYSTYLE ONTO THEM, (PvE!)
and that is open minded toward anything one can do in EvE ... is *rare*.

It's the *exception* !


And here's the killer:

Most new people get FORCED into mining or running missions, because there aren't enough people showing
them that they DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS ! At all ! I'm serious ! But ... and that's a big BUT ... reaching these
new people, once they've started going that road, is HARD, because they already got pushed into this
specific direction, OR because there are *actual* carebears talking crap against those who try to bring new
people into other directions besides mining and running missions, which a LOT of new people don't actually enjoy !

That's the real issue ! And i KNOW it is, because i ACTIVELY tried finding out wtf is going on with
so many new people mining and running missions ... and it's NOT because they enjoy it !

Nobody can say he enjoys something before he did it for the first time !
Causality and stuff ! Doesn't work that way, you know !

It's because it was the first thing shown to them ! They might actually enjoy "PvP" more,
but once pushed into a certain direction, it's hard to push people into another !

Besides people ingame as examples, i have an actual reallife friend who i brought into EvE.
I've told him not to start with mining/missions, but left him do his thing. He wanted to.
So he started canflipping (i really didn't tell him to do that) and now he sits in a lowsec corp,
not playing with me, "enjoying" sitting in gatecamps for hours doing nothing until some
moron in a freighter MIGHT show up ! That's saddening, btw.

Killing a freighter in a gang was his first BIG enjoyment (huge pile of ISK) and now he's
ignorant about anything else, because THAT'S what he enjoys and he completely blocked
the fact that he might actually enjoy other things too, if he just TRIED them !

His case is so bad, i can't even bring him to join me up in highsec to gank something,
because he's completely blinded by his past experiences.

TL;DR:

New people lack the realization of possibilities,
because there are other people working against it, intentionally or not !


I win this thread, now GTFO !


(edit: holy ****, that felt good. I wanted to get that off my chest for a long time ^_^)


Thank you sir, you exactly pointed out what im trying to say.


I have to hold back so much from becoming completely uncivil with these people who are so thick skulled they have no idea what im talking about and assume im persecuting them.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2013-04-08 01:34:04 UTC
...Weird, I posted my post at 01:18 and a reply already prequoted and answered in less than 10 minutes...

Tippia wrote:
[]…and the problem is that if they get caught up in a carebear corp, they will not learn those things properly. Oh, and no, the reason highsec exists is not to teach people to play the game.


Who made you God to decide?

Who made you so omnipotent to get into all the brains of every human and say, "this is how it's done"?

That's called: delusional thinking.

If they want to be a "carebear", it's none of your business. You're not paying for their subscription.

You can control how you play, not others.

People aren't bots.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-04-08 01:38:05 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
...Weird, I posted my post at 01:18 and a reply already prequoted and answered in less than 10 minutes...


Who made you God to decide?

Who made you so omnipotent to get into all the brains of every human and say, "this is how it's done"?

That's called: delusional thinking.

If they want to be a "carebear", it's none of your business. You're not paying for their subscription.

You can control how you play, not others.

People aren't bots.


The thing is they are doing it wrong, they are teaching and lying to noobs that lowsec is a really scary place.
Carebears lie about doing pvp in recruitment, just look in recruitment chat.

Many (if not most) of the corps in talking about are run by people who are incompetent in the realms of PvP but act to their members like this is the average experience in Eve combat wise and that combat is a scary thing you should stay away from.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2013-04-08 01:40:05 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
...TLDR: In summary, boost lowsec resources, add scaling gateguns = more carebears risking their lives for profit = more carebears becoming not-carebears. Cool
The dynamic needs to change. It would be better for both high and low.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#131 - 2013-04-08 01:40:34 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Who made you God to decide?

Who made you so omnipotent to get into all the brains of every human and say, "this is how it's done"?
What on Earth are you on about?


Quote:
If they want to be a "carebear", it's none of your business. You're not paying for their subscription.

You can control how you play, not others.

People aren't bots.
Aaaand… what does that have to do with what you just quoted? Ugh
I'm not talking about what people want to do. I'm talking about the actual topic of the thread: that new players get caught up in corps that cannot teach them the game; that remove their ability to choose; that force them into playstyles out of sheer ignorance.

Since you are trying to paint yourself as so adamantly against people being controlled in this way, why aren't you upset about this state of affairs? Why don't you want new players to be able to choose?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2013-04-08 01:42:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:

…oh, and with a proper skill plan, you could get into incursions in about a month, but it would be such a hyper-specialised character that I wouldn't suggest it to a newbie anyway.


Tippia wrote:
My standard advice to all new players is rather simple: if anyone ever says “don't try X until you have [skill/ship/SP] Y”, you know beyond any doubt that the person is clueless about X because nothing in the game works like that. Along with such insipid nonsense as the old “train to V” advice, it's the worst kind of newbie griefing and really should be a bannable offence.
Are you going to ban yourself?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#133 - 2013-04-08 01:43:23 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Are you going to ban yourself?
No. Why would I?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2013-04-08 01:44:10 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
[
I doubt you will find much success in a starter corp doing pvp, you need isk and some help to be successful at pvp.
Agreed.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2013-04-08 01:48:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Are you going to ban yourself?
No. Why would I?
Lol
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2013-04-08 01:49:09 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
You leave the game because your bored.
5 hour mining ops, are boring.
Blowing things up, not boring.
Blowing up mindless red crosses, boring.


I disagree with this because I think the PvP combat in eve is terrible. It's almost always completely one sided, there's never really a good fight involved. And the boredom factor of gate/wormhole/station camps where waiting hours on end for one insta-lock alpha killmail is considered 'fun.'

Confirming that goodfights never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever happen and we only ever prey on helpless carebears.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#137 - 2013-04-08 01:49:32 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Lol
So you were just trolling. Got it.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2013-04-08 01:54:33 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:

0.0 is advanced gameplay. No way how it's sliced, it's where the vets play. That's not the environment for new players, in a skill based game, and the player doesn't have the skills to be but cannon fodder.

i and my three thousand friends started off as a raw newbie in 0.0
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#139 - 2013-04-08 01:55:53 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:

0.0 is advanced gameplay. No way how it's sliced, it's where the vets play. That's not the environment for new players, in a skill based game, and the player doesn't have the skills to be but cannon fodder.

i and my three thousand friends started off as a raw newbie in 0.0

Thirty Thousand.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2013-04-08 01:59:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Lol
So you were just trolling. Got it.
Lol Do you bother to read what you write? In one breath you want people banned for talking about needing skill to do something... in the next you talk about a skill plan need to do Incursions.


Tippia- "...and with a proper skill plan.. "

Trippa - "...if anyone ever says “don't try X until you have [skill/ship/SP] ..."
"...it's the worst kind of newbie griefing and really should be a bannable offence..."