EVE General Discussion

It honestly could not be more clear.

I think you point out the problem quite well, whether you realized it or not. People don't usually go to low or null because it never occurs as a viable idea to them. All every other mmo tutorial I've seen pretty much listed out exactly what you could do in the game. People mistakenly take this idea over to eve and so they take the tutorial at face value. Thus, they stick to highsec for two years because it wasn't presented as an option until they finally get a good taste of different gameplay. And it doesn't help when all of highsec is screaming a similar message of "LOWSEC IS BAD, DON'T GO THERE!".

i did not say i believed you quit

i said i believed you had made many, many posts about how you were ragequitting

however, i regret to inform you that the relevance to the statement "Your answer denies the very scenario. Worst post of the day." is not readily apparent

Roger that, understood

goonswarm newbies are losing ships that are dirt-cheap because they're t1 frigs or later t1 cruisers

they learn that ships and death are cheap and that your ship is liable to blow up at any moment and not to cry like a little girl over it

and they get in through the standard recruiting channels we do the vast majority of our recruiting by convincing new people to play eve and to join goonswarm, i was in within a week of starting (and it took that long because the auth director was lazy at the time)

Bolded the important part.

The problem is not "PvPers telling carebears they must fight" and "enforcing their play style on others".

In fact, it's quite the opposite. It's the carebears sucking in new players will all sorts of potential and ENFORCING THE CAREBEAR WAY OF LIFE on them. I find all the "you can't make me pvp" outcries very hypocritical.

These new players are made to mine as the only way of income for a noob. As if money was all that matters in life - let alone a game. Then get pushed into training for exhumers and spending their time and isk on more expensive mining ships.
They get told they must train up for Marauders to run level 4 missions and mine till they get there. Then keep mining and running missions until they have a 4 bil fit ship for incursions.

Then they are told they can start to do PvP when they have billions in disposable income from ^ and three years of skill points under their belt. And well, since they came here expecting to PvP reasonably soon on some level, their response is "LOL I'm outa here".


We had four new players join our corp some time ago. They came to play with a corp member they knew from another game. They all bought a bunch of plexes and were players of the "I throw dollars at the game and have fun" variety. Within a week they were sitting in drakes, following the friends advice and starting to look forward to fighting.

Unfortunately, they kept listening to their friend and not the other corp members. Three weeks later they were logging in only for a couple hours a week and mining in their barges with their friend. Wondering why they are mining and training max yield when they plan to fund their ships with $ not isk. Soon after, it turned out they deeply believed they need "all 5's in a battleship" to do any kind of fighting and only logged in for training. A few weeks later they cancelled their subscriptions in frustration, unwilling to listen to the rest of us.


TL;DR You don't need a 4 bil ratting ship, "steady income" and 60 mil SP to start thinking about PvP. Convincing new players into such beliefs, is a carebear community contribution we would be better off without.

@OP, here's the thing.

Personally, I'd like to be less carebear, and more nullsec or PvP or whatever you want to call it. I know some others who would too. But the problem is (someone correct me if I am wrong), a hell of a lot of nullsec corps are inaccessible. They either aren't recruiting anyone, or if they are, they aren't recruiting noobs, i.e. anyone who doesn't have 30 million SP need not apply. Again, someone correct me if I am wrong, but that's certainly what I've found.

Note that I am talking 'real' nullsec corps here - corps who actually own and control nullsec real estate.

At any rate, this leaves little choice for many folks except to be carebears, even if they'd prefer not to be. What would your solution to this be, OP? If you are saying that carebears are killing the game by boring noobs, what's the alternative?

EDIT:



I call total BS. Nobody is heading out to low or null in a retriever without one of two things being true: 1) they are in a low/null sec corp. which controls that system, or 2) they lose a retriever.

I know, you can check my kills because I've lost like 4 retrievers in 1 months trying to just mine in low sec, nevermind null sec.

I have not seen an identifiable GSF or CFC presence in any of the noobcorp chats I've been a part of offering advice of recruiting. Nor have I seen any reasonable efforts to keep that population from falling to the carebear influence there. Is there something preventing this from happening?

From anything I've ever seen, Goonswarm only recruits from members of their site. Period. Paragraph. In fact, if you accept a recruitment offer from them, and you are not a member of their site, they just take your money without letting you in the corp. (yes, they charge to be in the corp). In other words, they scam you.

Try again?

In order for the tutorial to be effective in exposing characters to space outside highsec it would need to expose them to the dangers there but would also need to leave them with a positive experience to keep them drawn in. How would you propose to accomplish that? NPC driven tutorials that push players outside of highsec would do so with almost no experienced player backup, informational or otherwise, and could frustrate early players regarding the PvP aspects of the game. How would you suggest allowing the experience to be meaningful while still allowing it to be positive when there is no guarantee of helpful player intervention?