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carebears are scaring off noobs with boredom.

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Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2013-04-08 03:55:34 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
a newbie, as a newbie, self-evidently does not know enough about the game to make an informed choice...
When did "a newbie doesn't know what he wants" turn into informed choices? There is a difference... that should be self-evident.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2013-04-08 03:56:09 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
You can't know that . You can guess than many don't know and many do, but you can know their motivations.


I'm curious about your motivations. With enough smilies to make Wal-Mart jealous, even.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2013-04-08 03:57:08 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:

Nobody is dictating anything. There *are* plenty of highsec corps out there who
ruin the game for people without these new people actually knowing this.

yea. exactly.

my first visit to WH finished in cloning facility. i was like 1 month old.
my first contact with people finished by losing my ship and like 80% of wallet.

my first corp (high-sec mission runners) taught me a lot and helped with ISK/stuff. They made me know that there is good people in Eve.

my first try to join .0 sec alliance almost ended in goonswarm recruiting scam.


Yea, exactly this is high-sec carebear corps who ruin the game for new players Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#204 - 2013-04-08 03:57:16 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
my friend, we can all see that you repeatedly shy away


You're desperate to save face, Evil?

Communication is critical here, and if you can't communicate well, you lost the PR war.

And for that, I take no prisoners.

See "carebears" specialize in other more important skills...

my friend, i welcome you to the field of actual knowledge, but no matter how many times i offer you the chance to defend your ideas and communicate you never quite manage to work up the courage

as a believer in the power of the human mind, i know that by racing my warhorse of infinite knowledge up and down these fields showing my willingness to discuss, while you continue to tell everyone how much you wish you could engage in posting combat, shows to the poor newbies of eve who have not yet learned who to trust that it is i who am in the right here: it is those who are assured in their knowledge that are willing to discuss the issues and it is those who know they are wrong who post...well, what you've posted here

i, and my three thousand best space friends, have trained newbies how to play eve for the better part of a decade, do not yet know all there is to know on the subject. but compared to anyone else, our knowledge blazes like the sun compared to the weak flickering candle of your "newbies cannot participate in 0.0"
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#205 - 2013-04-08 04:01:53 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
a newbie, as a newbie, self-evidently does not know enough about the game to make an informed choice...
When did "a newbie doesn't know what he wants" turn into informed choices? There is a difference... that should be self-evident.

as i told you before, we must walk before we can run

a newbie, lacking the knowledge to make an informed choice, may "want" something in one sense. he has chosen the box of poop, and is grasping to try and sieze it. but in a truer, better sense, he does not know what he wants: with greater information his wants will change in a predictable way

as the possessor of that knowledge, i know what the person wants in a more real sense than they know themselves
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2013-04-08 04:05:58 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
The newbie usually knows next to nothing about which skills are most important and how best to prioritise, and is vulnerable to being fed bad advice by NPC corp chat and horrible corps.


Or by PvPers more interested in promoting their own agendas.

What the new player won't find out is, that PvPer doesn't care about industry.

From the get go, he will now be so self-serving to lead the player down the wrong path, training him in skills that's not useful for his career.

Useful what YOU deem is important, but selfish in it to the point to ruin a player's career over it.

And EvE is like that, it allows such scheming and tomfoolery (Goonies are in this thread afterall).

So in the effort to "educate", such players aren't "educating" what a player would want, it's what THEY want the new player to learn.

Which frankly is like having momma turning kids into momma boys, and worse.

Basic Comprehension IV is a prerequisite to Not Being A Bad Poster I

actually i'm not sure it's only that you can't understand what i type but more that you're also incredibly ignorant about eve online, incapable of grasping that you are so ignorant, and yet feel a compulsion to comment on everything

but you certainly didn't understand my post which is what's immediately relevant. read it again. my posts rule.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#207 - 2013-04-08 04:07:55 UTC
as the possessor of the knowledge, i know that when a newbie grasps towards that box labeled mining, as one of the most accomplished and successful players in eve, i know he is reaching for a box of poop

some people may manage to convince themselves they like the poop, but i, as one of the alliances who has seen the experience of more new players first-hand than everyone in this thread combined, know that the majority of players will instead they have been given a box of poop, and not knowing there are boxes that are less odorous, will chose to give up the hunt for the box of steak and leave the game

those poor souls who are sucked into the corps that will tell them that the poop is the point of the box game, that they must learn to love the poop, those are the greatest criminals in eve
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#208 - 2013-04-08 04:08:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Bi-Mi LansathaYou seem to have a very low opinion of many players.[/quote wrote:
Nope.

Quote:
Not only are they not playing the game the way you want, but you seem to believe that the are too stupid and gullible to figure thing out on their own.
Incorrect assessment on both accounts.

Quote:
How can any player, with all of the resource available, not be able to do this?
By not using said resource because, hey, their friendly corpmates are such a wealth of information and ancient wisdom… It's something we've seen again and again (and again) over the years, and it festers like crazy in the newbie-corp chats and is, as shown by some of the very odd posts that appear on the forum sometimes, rather prevalent in carebear corps as well. Neither is surprising, unfortunately.

Quote:
If you wish to argue that Eve may delivers a different experience than the one the bought the game for, that is a different matter.

Most players have wants when they buy Eve, how the product delivers is the issue. I don't doubt that many who would like to be into small PvP get caught up in the wrong Corp and eventually quit... other will choose to move on. This isn't a case of new players not knowing what they want, but getting those players into the right area of the game.
I'm arguing that, unless you have completely misunderstood the game (by, for instance, believing that it's not a full-PvP game), everything you'd want to do will come in two or three or fifteen different forms. As a new player, you won't know this, and you have no ability to choose intelligently between them.

The problem comes when you get picked up early on by a corp that only offers (and only knows of) one of those forms, meaning that this is all you know too… which explains why the corp knows so little: because they suffered the same fate way back when.

[quote]When did "a newbie doesn't know what he wants" turn into informed choices?
It didn't. It was always there. It was always “a newbie don't know what he wants (for obvious reasons) and have no basis for making informed choices when he's only shown half (or one third (or less)) of the overall picture.” It is the entire premise of the thread.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2013-04-08 04:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Ace Uoweme wrote:

I'm curious about your motivations. With enough smilies to make Wal-Mart jealous, even.
Blink

I think most people who buy this product have an idea of what they want to do: there is lots of videos and documentation available, and while the actual game will vary from these preconception... the new player has different playing styles available. If you want to PvP it is there for the new player... I just think some of them are overwhelmed those first few weeks (I was) and might have trouble finding that path. I am not sure how to fix it, but I believe it could be better.

It isn't the fault of those older players who want to be care bears to pass their knowledge on to new guy who strongly desire to do PvP. I don't think blaming carebares accomplishes anything.

Perhaps a PvP tutorial path as a choice at the start with better pointers to PvP recruiting corps might be more helpful.

My motivation: nerf this or that generally doesn't make a game better. Enhance this or that generally does. Enhance the ability of those new players wishing to be Pvpers is something most would oppose.

Yes or no?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2013-04-08 04:11:57 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
...as the possessor of that knowledge, i know what the person wants in a more real sense than they know themselves...
Lol
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2013-04-08 04:13:30 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
actually i'm not sure it's only that you can't understand what i type but more that you're also incredibly ignorant about eve online, incapable of grasping that you are so ignorant, and yet feel a compulsion to comment on everything

but you certainly didn't understand my post which is what's immediately relevant. read it again. my posts rule.


Lol

It's not understanding EvE that is the problem (not difficult at all)...it's understanding you and your motives.

If you actually cared, you'd be mentoring, not worrying about micrometers to measure ePeens.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2013-04-08 04:18:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Double
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2013-04-08 04:18:47 UTC

If I might quote you again. Then please explain your view why thousand of players are so... so what?

Tippia"...they will never be able to make an informed choice..."

Tippia"...without the ability to actually decide for themselves..."
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#214 - 2013-04-08 04:18:48 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

Nobody is dictating anything. There *are* plenty of highsec corps out there who
ruin the game for people without these new people actually knowing this.

yea. exactly.

my first visit to WH finished in cloning facility. i was like 1 month old.
my first contact with people finished by losing my ship and like 80% of wallet.

my first corp (high-sec mission runners) taught me a lot and helped with ISK/stuff. They made me know that there is good people in Eve.

my first try to join .0 sec alliance almost ended in goonswarm recruiting scam.


Yea, exactly this is high-sec carebear corps who ruin the game for new players Lol


Ah the goonswarm recruiting scam. My second favourite scam to hear about. People falling for the 1 trit scam or Margin Trading scams garner top equal spot though.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#215 - 2013-04-08 04:20:39 UTC
i'm really liking the fecal analogies. ...ahem

but i've been reading the past few pages and what i'm gathering is that the greatest truth of all is being overlooked.

there is no steak.

it's all poop.

and we are all just dung beetles. rolling our favorite bits of the poop into little balls of enjoyment for ourselves.

and in order for this game to work...we need beetles that favor all the various odors of that poop to drive the great circle of eve's gastro-intestinal production to function normally.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#216 - 2013-04-08 04:21:15 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:

Ah the goonswarm recruiting scam. My second favourite scam to hear about. People falling for the 1 trit scam or Margin Trading scams garner top equal spot though.

one of the finest lessons to newbies in eve

my favorite ones are the ones where people are doing the goonswarm recruiting scam without even being in goonswarm
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2013-04-08 04:21:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
I'm arguing that, unless you have completely misunderstood the game (by, for instance, believing that it's not a full-PvP game)...
Clarification please. Are you saying PvP in ship to ship combat only or does PvP include other actions. Station traders and such.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2013-04-08 04:24:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It didn't. It was always there. It was always “a newbie don't know what he wants (for obvious reasons) and have no basis for making informed choices when he's only shown half (or one third (or less)) of the overall picture.” It is the entire premise of the thread.

If this thread equates 'wants' with informed choices then it is invalid from the start.

They are different concepts.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2013-04-08 04:26:49 UTC
Carebears are scaring off new players?

Shocked

After being in this game for almost 5 years, I thought I had heard it all but this is definitely a new one.

The only appropriate response is this.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2013-04-08 04:27:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It didn't. It was always there. It was always “a newbie don't know what he wants (for obvious reasons) and have no basis for making informed choices when he's only shown half (or one third (or less)) of the overall picture.” It is the entire premise of the thread.
If the question is informed choices, then you don't seem to believe 'those people' will ever make one. So what is you solution?

Tippia"...they will never be able to make an informed choice..."

Tippia"...without the ability to actually decide for themselves..."