EVE General Discussion

i see, so in addition to your incredibly inept understanding of 0.0 you are not terribly clear on the concept of complexity

complexity is not "johnny on the spot decisions"

let us begin at the beginning, the concept of an informed choice

i have three boxes. i tell you that you can have the contents of any one box. now, without revealing what is in the boxes, i tell you that you can have one of the three boxes. you have "decided" which box you want, and you choose

however, that is not an 'informed' choice because you don't know what's in the box. i, knowing that one of the boxes contains a delicious steak and i took a dump in the other two, know which box you actually want. you, stamping your foot and seething in outrage, are insisting that you are the only person who can know what you want. in a trivial sense that's true, you have a want currently

however, you are but a child grasping innocently towards the poop-filled box as i, in my infinite wisdom and kindness, are attempting to guide you towards the one box that does not contain poop because i know what you want better than you do because your choice is an uninformed choice and my choice for you is an informed choice

Yes, because it's pretty simple to figure out that they don't. It's also something completely different from knowing what they want.

Here are two bowls, A and B. You have no idea what's in them because you've never seen them before. Which one do you want?

Good thing that I'm not doing anything of the kind then.

I'm acting concerned that new players, who — by virtue of being new — don't know anything about the game and thus are easily tricked into learning the wrong lessons about how the game works. If they end up in corps that are full of players with a limited, distorted, often even incorrect understanding about game mechanics and options, then they will never be able to make an informed choice about their gameplay. They're being, as you call it “babied into doing this or that” without the ability to actually decide for themselves because they are never given the information needed to make those decisions.

…which is exactly the lesson many of them come away with from the carebear corps, because they have a single activity in mind and little knowledge about what's outside of that narrow field of view. They can't and won't give the player the opportunity to learn, and they can't help him understand what he did right or wrong (because no, you don't have to learn all on your own).

Irrelevant because that is not the situation.

Most players are not blindly buying a product. The make a choice base on what the know or believe. The enter the game with a conception of what they would like or might be fun. Whether the product delivers is a separate issue.

CCP spends money to market this product. To give consumers an idea of the fun they can have, and based on that and other things the enter the game with preconceptions. As varied as the individual.

Some may not know what they want, but most have an idea when they end up paying their money.

actually you shut up immediately when questioned on the details presumably because you have witnessed the power of this fully armed and operational posting station and wished to avoid getting your ideas blown to smithereens

goonswarm became the most successful alliance in eve history rending multiple incarnations of bob, the avatar of the failed "0.0 is for elites only" kind of alliance that you promote into tiny bleeding scraps by taking newbies and bringing them out to 0.0 immediately, because anyone can participate in 0.0 and those wretched fools who thought they couldn't now hold 0.0 space only because montolio would take any trash he could vacumn into the hbc to try to take on goonswarm

i, and nearly every member of goonswarm, went out to 0.0 as soon as we started playing eve. i must thank you, because we couldn't have enjoyed our unparalleled success without the foolishness of you and your friends

I dictate my own content. You may lead Goonies around by the nose, you don't dictate to me.

That's the difference.



In EvE, and only for the moment. As this game is designed to knock chumps off their rocker.

(That is if they don't carebear PvP first).

my friend, we can all see that you repeatedly shy away from the discussion you claim to be so eager to have by trying to find any excuse to avoid defending your self-evidently wrong views

i suppose knowing "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt" is a kernel of wisdom but it doesn't work to loudly announce how you're not talking

it seems i do, my friend

i roam freely around the plains of knowing things because i am a facts lord, in addition to my title as a guidance systems lord and technetium baron

as a facts lord by my mere presence on the plains of knowing things i have driven you into hiding. that you will not do honorable facts jousting does not make you any less herded into the caverns of Posting About How Wise You Are While Saying Nothing

newbies can go to 0.0 as soon as they can and stand on their own two feet like a man, following in the footsteps of thousands of goons who have become lords of space

or they can graze in the fields with the rest of the cows and hope one day they will eat enough grass to evolve into a wolf

This goes back to your quote:"... new players don't know what they want...".

If you wish to argue that Eve may delivers a different experience than the one the bought the game for, that is a different matter.

Most players have wants when they buy Eve, how the product delivers is the issue. I don't doubt that many who would like to be into small PvP get caught up in the wrong Corp and eventually quit... other will choose to move on. This isn't a case of new players not knowing what they want, but getting those players into the right area of the game.

I don't disagree with anything you have written. I am just not sure how someone would go about fixing it. Individual trial and errors seems to be the standard.

There are null sec carebears/jews. A lot of those corps recruit crazy numbers of n00bs. Even some of the large null sec pvp corps do, puting n00bs into disposable rifters or dessys.