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Official Protest - Mittani should be removed from CSM - *** UPDATED RESPONSE POSTED ***

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#801 - 2011-11-03 01:32:45 UTC
Nate Guralman wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Nate Guralman wrote:
The conversation above would never happen.

Actually, that has happened twice, one titan and one supercarrier iirc.


Oh, I have no doubt people were scammed out of their belongings through outright lying in chat. What I don't believe is that the scammer used their position on the CSM to gain the scammee's trust.

I don't remember all the details offhand of the titan scam (iirc those are publicly available on the site that must not be named because CCP is a big butthurt crybabby), but one goon got some pubbie to hand over 79b (could've gotten 80) by saying "the mittani is entirely trustworthy, he's the csm chairman!", which the pubbie swallowed whole. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Sirhan Blixt
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#802 - 2011-11-03 03:13:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Nate Guralman wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Nate Guralman wrote:
The conversation above would never happen.

Actually, that has happened twice, one titan and one supercarrier iirc.


Oh, I have no doubt people were scammed out of their belongings through outright lying in chat. What I don't believe is that the scammer used their position on the CSM to gain the scammee's trust.

I don't remember all the details offhand of the titan scam (iirc those are publicly available on the site that must not be named because CCP is a big butthurt crybabby), but one goon got some pubbie to hand over 79b (could've gotten 80) by saying "the mittani is entirely trustworthy, he's the csm chairman!", which the pubbie swallowed whole. vOv

... the important takeaway being that, at no time in either conversation did the Mittani himself offer any assurance of trust based on his position as CSM chairman, or any statement that could be construed as one. I'll leave the lawyerese to actual lawyers, but the basic fact was that there was no there there. Any notion that the MIttani had somehow abused his position as CSM chairman or engaged in corrupt behavior in his capacity as CSM chairman is entirely hypothetical. The actual chat logs have been leaked and re-leaked so many times that even the least dedicated investigator should have no trouble finding them.

But, facts be damned, we have yet again witnessed the spectacle of a screaming, gibbering mob of pubbies all beating on a greasy spot on the pavement where used to lie the carcass of a horse.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#803 - 2011-11-03 04:18:46 UTC
Not that a seat in the CSM should be construed as a "position of trust" in any case.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Master Modulus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#804 - 2011-11-04 18:10:31 UTC
It's because of tears like this from carebears that many goons re-sub. Let It Bee.
Vio Geraci
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#805 - 2011-11-04 22:33:16 UTC
Dear Just Another Toon,

What is your primary language in real life?

Signed with love,

-Vio Geraci

PS: How much of this thread have you actually read?
Delirious Grib
Solaroids
#806 - 2011-11-10 09:59:37 UTC
I see no issue with a CSM scamming. Mittani represents the playerbase with particular interest in Goons and scammers. Like it or not, this is an integral part of the playerbase. As long as other CSMs represent other aspects of the Eve playerbase (carebears, etc) it seems perfectly legit. I would only say as long as he does not use his position to authenticate scams (e.g. saying "you can trust me, I'm a CSM") then it's fine.

That said I am not hugely familiar with CSM election procedures. Can players vote for them? An evemail from CCP with a prompt to vote when elections roll round would provide a way of ensuring CSMs are vaguely representative of the Eve population.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#807 - 2011-11-10 10:07:43 UTC
Delirious Grib wrote:
I see no issue with a CSM scamming. Mittani represents the playerbase with particular interest in Goons and scammers. Like it or not, this is an integral part of the playerbase. As long as other CSMs represent other aspects of the Eve playerbase (carebears, etc) it seems perfectly legit. I would only say as long as he does not use his position to authenticate scams (e.g. saying "you can trust me, I'm a CSM") then it's fine.

That said I am not hugely familiar with CSM election procedures. Can players vote for them? An evemail from CCP with a prompt to vote when elections roll round would provide a way of ensuring CSMs are vaguely representative of the Eve population.

It is an out of game vote, which is advertised for about 3 weeks(1 week before and for the whole 2 weeks the election runs). Total votes cast are tallied, the 9 people with the most votes are CSM, and the 5(I think) who came in below that are designated as alternates, to be called in to fill in for any of the main delegates who are unable to perform(CSM steps down, alt becomes CSM, CSM can't make a meeting, alt steps in and attends the meeting in their place).

The new eve launcher that they have with the SiSi client is gonna do its best to shove info like this even more in our faces, as well.

All in all, short of requiring you to vote to log in, everything reasonable is being done to make sure people know about it. If you can't be bothered to vote, you have no say in the current round of CSMs. If you voted and your candidate lost, sorry, you might try helping them campaign in the upcoming elections so they get enough votes to get in.

iirc, the minimum votes to get elected this last time was only about 2k, so its not like its a massive chunk of the playerbase, but its enough to block unorganized candidates from getting in.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Geertruida Zelle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#808 - 2011-11-13 01:51:29 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
[quote=Venus Vermillion][quote=Just Another Toon][quote=Andski][quote=Just Another Toon]****

all sorts of cuddly stuff



I voted for mittani, yet I hardly venture out of Empire. The goons would most prob call be a pubbie, but who cares. This is eve, not utopia, and thats what makes it fun. The fact that there is a risk everytime I haul stuff in and out of Jita, the fact that I have to read every contract in minute detail, the fact that groups of people can cause chaos and disturb the routine. Thats what gives this game the edge.

x3 might be a better game for you. Its nice, safe and predictable, you will love it.

z
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#809 - 2011-11-13 04:32:18 UTC
X3 is indeed a good game, it's going to be interesting to see how X Reborn turns out.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Big Bad Mofo
Doomheim
#810 - 2011-11-15 12:03:58 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
X3 is indeed a good game, it's going to be interesting to see how X Reborn turns out.



its rebirth btw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabrDe4XJo0
its looks amazing, i really really wish they would make this into a MMO.. This is what space games should look like..they have always made eve look 10 years behind..sorry..
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#811 - 2011-11-15 13:06:01 UTC
Derp. Rebirth it is.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Kilobar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#812 - 2011-11-15 16:29:36 UTC
OP show me where on the doll the mittens touched you
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#813 - 2011-11-16 18:37:30 UTC
as someone who has fought agaist the goons and does not like them I say....


WTF is your problem?

Mittens is playing the game...good for him
He is having fun in the game..Good for him
He wants to make eve better..Good for him.

I don't see a problem.
Diosas
Doomheim
#814 - 2011-11-17 09:48:19 UTC
E man Industries wrote:
as someone who has fought agaist the goons and does not like them I say....


WTF is your problem?

Mittens is playing the game...good for him
He is having fun in the game..Good for him
He wants to make eve better..Good for him.

I don't see a problem.


Maybe thats the problem you think this ^

he wants to make eve better? Yes for himself and the goons thats it.. im bored of hearing from alt goons about mittens personally. The only people who support him are his goon losers.
Anyway you are like 2 months late posting, time this thread was locked and closed i think
Stahlregen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#815 - 2011-11-17 16:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Stahlregen
Diosas wrote:
E man Industries wrote:
as someone who has fought agaist the goons and does not like them I say....


WTF is your problem?

Mittens is playing the game...good for him
He is having fun in the game..Good for him
He wants to make eve better..Good for him.

I don't see a problem.


Maybe thats the problem you think this ^

he wants to make eve better? Yes for himself and the goons thats it.. im bored of hearing from alt goons about mittens personally. The only people who support him are his goon losers.
Anyway you are like 2 months late posting, time this thread was locked and closed i think


How about instead of calling us losers you detail what it is exactly he is doing that is for the sole benefit of him and his ilk rather than for the betterment of all EVE? Is it CSM6's push for the focus on FiS instead of space barbies, The redistribution of technetium and other moon minerals, the nerfing of supercaps and thus the unassailable power of old-boys-club alliances, or is it the bringing of long requested features/issues that have been on CCP's backburner for years to the front?

Even a cursory glance at his platform and the results of the current CSM reveals that a lot of the things he is pushing for will actually be detrimental to goonswarm federation members on both an individual and alliance level. It's painfully obvious you simply dislike goons and let hilarious amounts of rage completely cloud your judgement, but hey feel free to provide an actual argument as to why this isn't true other than; "goons are losers."

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#816 - 2011-11-20 05:05:08 UTC
Cba reading this clusterfuck of terribad posts, can someone repost best rages so far? Need more tears for my happy bucket.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
ShipToaster
#817 - 2011-11-20 06:05:35 UTC
Mittani is good for EVE. Makes game more interesting for me. Not supported.

.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#818 - 2011-12-20 06:35:53 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:


How about instead of calling us losers you detail what it is exactly he is doing that is for the sole benefit of him and his ilk rather than for the betterment of all EVE? Is it CSM6's push for the focus on FiS instead of space barbies, The redistribution of technetium and other moon minerals, the nerfing of supercaps and thus the unassailable power of old-boys-club alliances, or is it the bringing of long requested features/issues that have been on CCP's backburner for years to the front?

Even a cursory glance at his platform and the results of the current CSM reveals that a lot of the things he is pushing for will actually be detrimental to goonswarm federation members on both an individual and alliance level. It's painfully obvious you simply dislike goons and let hilarious amounts of rage completely cloud your judgement, but hey feel free to provide an actual argument as to why this isn't true other than; "goons are losers."


Not emptyquoting.
CSM6 actually got **** done and I don't give a **** about how massive of a ****** people like white tree/mittens are (very). CSM6 is the driving force behind the timely abortion of WiS and the refocus on fights.
Oh and of course the hybrid/gallente rebalance. They communicated with CCP a lot on that as well.

OP, you are a moron with a worldview (heh, more like EVE-view get it) that literally spans only ~10% of the game. Shut the **** up about these things, you literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#819 - 2012-01-15 14:39:49 UTC
All in all Mittani is a problem for CCP. Having “open to fraud, stealing an grefing” policy was good for EVE sandbox when it was done by relatively independent groups and individuals. But with Mittani's increasing influence and organisational capabilities promoting such activities it reaches levels when it becomes more then just a game feature but actual problem for recruiting new or holding on to old players. Thus he becomes actual problem for CCP and it's bottom line.

As thing are standing now Mittani did not openly do or say anything that is in conflict with EULA (anyhow if he did something that conflicts with it CCP does not know about it so it is irrelevant) so he can continue his his work in EVE and CSM as long as he likes regardless of what we say or do.

But we should note that recently we had some changes in EVE rules protecting new players and carebears, those changes were undoubtedly provoked by CFC high sec ganking and recruitment frauds, and were I no way promoted by CSM. More of those are likely to come. In the end Mittens greatest “contribution” to EVE might end up being more restricted sandbox and more irrelevant CSM as CCP has to protect it's bottom line from the likes of him.

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#820 - 2012-01-15 21:14:16 UTC
Sofia Wolf wrote:
All in all Mittani is a problem for CCP. Having “open to fraud, stealing an grefing” policy was good for EVE sandbox when it was done by relatively independent groups and individuals. But with Mittani's increasing influence and organisational capabilities promoting such activities it reaches levels when it becomes more then just a game feature but actual problem for recruiting new or holding on to old players. Thus he becomes actual problem for CCP and it's bottom line.

Pray tell, how is this "an actual problem for recruiting new or holding on to old players"?

Sofia Wolf wrote:
But we should note that recently we had some changes in EVE rules protecting new players and carebears, those changes were undoubtedly provoked by CFC high sec ganking and recruitment frauds, and were I no way promoted by CSM. More of those are likely to come. In the end Mittens greatest “contribution” to EVE might end up being more restricted sandbox and more irrelevant CSM as CCP has to protect it's bottom line from the likes of him.

You mean the changes where insurance wasn't being paid out if you get concorded? How can you possibly come to the conclusion that this is "restricting the sandbox" and "making CSM irrelevant"?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat