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Official Protest - Mittani should be removed from CSM - *** UPDATED RESPONSE POSTED ***

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Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#481 - 2011-10-17 12:44:32 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

I suppose I am referring to the branch of Darwinism called "survival of the fittest". Poster I was referring to stated if he got scammed and burned to the ground he'd still vote for the doer of such evils Cool

I am going to explain this to you once, and once only. Taking into account your limited intelligence, I shall describe it thus:

Survival of the fittest is a statement based on the concept that all other variables being equal, the creature most suited to its environment has the greatest chance of reproducing.

Lets imagine a world with two creates living on it. It is a cold world, and one of the two creatures (lets call them coldies) is well adapted for the cold. polar bear style fur, lots of fat etc.

The others, referred to as warmies, are badly adapted for cold environments. They have no hair and no fat.

If neither of these two species is sentient, then the coldies will survive, and the warmies will inevitably die out. Survival of the fittest.

However, if the warmies are sentient, they might choose to dump billions of tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere, creating an enhanced greenhouse effect to warm the planet. The result is that the coldies die out, despite being better adapted for their planet.

The warmies modified their environment to suit their inferior survivability, and in doing so, removed the principal of survival of the fittest from the equation.

Every day in eve, people well suited to the game give up and leave because people less well suited but more experienced use tools to beat them.

Infact, eve doesn't actually have an environment. In darwinism, if you make everyone sit still and do nothing, one species will still emerge better adapted. In eve, if you sit everyone still, nothing happens and noone dies.

So, from this, understand that darwinism does not, never has and never will exist in eve. The fact that you think it does means someone else has tricked you into thinking that, probably in an attempt to manipulate you.

If that explanation isn't clear enough for you, then I'm afraid I cannot lower the explanation to your intellectual level.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#482 - 2011-10-17 12:44:59 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You know I answer this for the OP, because perhaps coming from someone else, you might understand.

If a person is in a position of trust, the CSM as a whole represents, or should represent the player base of eve. Therefore amongst alot of the player base the CSM are 'trusted' individuals.` Thus if you are using your title to scam people in game then that is pretty much corruption.

If say a person trades with, especially the Chair of the CSM, one would assume he is trustworthy, whether in goons or not.

So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?
I think personally I would like to know your answer to these questions...
Airu Naari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#483 - 2011-10-17 12:46:48 UTC
It may not be right, and it certainly isn't pleasant for the one scammed, however - if it's allowed - SUCK IT UP. Also, CSM and in-game actions are a separate thing. When CCP sees someone seriously exploits CSM in a wrong way, I'm sure they will act upon it.

The Mittani would do this being CSM, as well as not being CSM, I'm sure!

He was elected (MAYBE the vast majority of the votes came from Goonswarm, but why don't you form an opposition then and fight it off?). I'm not an ass-kisser by the way, but it's the truth what I'm saying.
WisdomLikeSilence
BurgerkingTM
#484 - 2011-10-17 12:48:01 UTC
If this is an "official" protest, lets see your permit.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#485 - 2011-10-17 12:49:02 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You mean except pushing agendas that benefit only the huge nullsec alliances, like removing all high end ore from WH-space?


By pushing agendas by legitimate means you mean doing exactly what politicians are supposed to do?

Sorry. 'I don't like this decision that has been made.' is not political corruption, in fact -- it's politics! Whoa!

Former member of CSM6.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#486 - 2011-10-17 12:49:15 UTC
Edit: Double post, delete me.

Former member of CSM6.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2011-10-17 12:50:34 UTC
Since you posted twice white tree, I liked it twice. You're welcome Big smile

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#488 - 2011-10-17 12:51:02 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You know I answer this for the OP, because perhaps coming from someone else, you might understand.

If a person is in a position of trust, the CSM as a whole represents, or should represent the player base of eve. Therefore amongst alot of the player base the CSM are 'trusted' individuals.` Thus if you are using your title to scam people in game then that is pretty much corruption.

If say a person trades with, especially the Chair of the CSM, one would assume he is trustworthy, whether in goons or not.

So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?
I think personally I would like to know your answer to these questions...


I have actually never scammed anyone using my CSM title as a voice of validity, nor have I even actually scammed someone.

Next.

Former member of CSM6.
Takamori Maruyama
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#489 - 2011-10-17 12:51:44 UTC
>250 likes
>in a game with at least 45k players
>mfw ಠ_ಠ

Loud and clear...
Mr R4nd0m
Doomheim
#490 - 2011-10-17 12:52:04 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You know I answer this for the OP, because perhaps coming from someone else, you might understand.

If a person is in a position of trust, the CSM as a whole represents, or should represent the player base of eve. Therefore amongst alot of the player base the CSM are 'trusted' individuals.` Thus if you are using your title to scam people in game then that is pretty much corruption.

If say a person trades with, especially the Chair of the CSM, one would assume he is trustworthy, whether in goons or not.

So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?
I think personally I would like to know your answer to these questions...


I have actually never scammed anyone using my CSM title as a voice of validity, nor have I even actually scammed someone.

Next.


You have not answered these two fundamental questions...You need to give a response.


So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#491 - 2011-10-17 12:53:51 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:


So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?


I didn't say the CSM weren't to be trusted at all. I'm saying the CSM are politicians, you may apply whatever your personal perception of politicians is to that at your will, that's your responsibility, not mine.

Former member of CSM6.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#492 - 2011-10-17 12:56:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
If a person is in a position of trust, the CSM as a whole represents, or should represent the player base of eve. Therefore amongst alot of the player base the CSM are 'trusted' individuals.`
Why would you trust them just because they're on the CSM?
Quote:
Thus if you are using your title to scam people in game then that is pretty much corruption.
And the question remains: where is the proof that they're doing that?
Quote:
If say a person trades with, especially the Chair of the CSM, one would assume he is trustworthy, whether in goons or not.
Lol no. Largely because you're not trading with the CSM chair — you're trading with the Goon CEO, a decidedly untrustworthy guy.

Why is it so hard for you to distinguish in-game from real life?
Quote:
So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED?
Not in-game, no. Why should they be? The CSM does not exist in the game.
Out of game? Maybe — that depends on how you feel about their ability to communicate with you and CCP. None of that has any relationship with what happens in-game, though.
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#493 - 2011-10-17 12:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Substance
Mr R4nd0m wrote:

So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?

Personally, I think terry pratchett had it right when he suggested that we should just throw every politician in jail as soon as we elect them. In the words of someone I can't remember who was probably fictional, those who desire power are the least suited to wield it.

Your mileage may vary, especially with the CSM.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#494 - 2011-10-17 12:58:18 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

I suppose I am referring to the branch of Darwinism called "survival of the fittest". Poster I was referring to stated if he got scammed and burned to the ground he'd still vote for the doer of such evils Cool

I am going to explain this to you once, and once only. Taking into account your limited intelligence, I shall describe it thus:

Survival of the fittest is a statement based on the concept that all other variables being equal, the creature most suited to its environment has the greatest chance of reproducing.

...

If that explanation isn't clear enough for you, then I'm afraid I cannot lower the explanation to your intellectual level.


10/10 for ability to be condescending
1/10 for poorly applying a Darwinism analogy to a video game about spaceships
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#495 - 2011-10-17 12:58:58 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Deviana Sevidon wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You mean except pushing agendas that benefit only the huge nullsec alliances, like removing all high end ore from WH-space?


By pushing agendas by legitimate means you mean doing exactly what politicians are supposed to do?

Sorry. 'I don't like this decision that has been made.' is not political corruption, in fact -- it's politics! Whoa!


Yup, that is politics, corrupts politics, but most certainly politics and you still fail to see why people have problems with the CSM, if it follows the screw-over-majority-when-it-helps-their-own-wallet-behavior?


....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
WisdomLikeSilence
BurgerkingTM
#496 - 2011-10-17 12:59:02 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:

So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?

Personally, I think terry pratchett had it right when he suggested that we should just throw every politician in jail as soon as we elect them. In the words of someone I can't remember who was probably fictional, those who desire power are the least suited to wield it.

Your mileage may vary, especially with the CSM.


Bring back the rule of KINGS!
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2011-10-17 13:00:29 UTC
Deviana Sevidon wrote:

Yup, that is politics, corrupts politics


Look at how wrong you are.

Former member of CSM6.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#498 - 2011-10-17 13:01:08 UTC
Ummm...is there a list somewhere in this thread of who among the CSM is the least / most trustworthy? Or do we all eat babies?

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Alara IonStorm
#499 - 2011-10-17 13:02:17 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
White Tree wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


They are corrupt...


Show me specifically where I have been 'corrupt'.


You know I answer this for the OP, because perhaps coming from someone else, you might understand.

If a person is in a position of trust, the CSM as a whole represents, or should represent the player base of eve. Therefore amongst alot of the player base the CSM are 'trusted' individuals.` Thus if you are using your title to scam people in game then that is pretty much corruption.

If say a person trades with, especially the Chair of the CSM, one would assume he is trustworthy, whether in goons or not.

So are you saying that the CSM ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? Are you? If you are, then how can the player base trust the CSM with any other affairs?
I think personally I would like to know your answer to these questions...

Scamming is a respected part of the game, in fact CCP made a Trailer encouraging new players to join the game for the purpose of Scamming.

CSM's are not the guys who hang out in the Help Channel they are players with an agenda to push, those that vote for them want there agenda to be represented.

If a CSM runs a Pro Crime Campaign then does not participate then how can we trust that they really believe in there Scamming Agenda.

I am willing to bet you can not find any proof in which a member of the CSM Scammed someone by saying you can trust me I am a CSM. If you trust a CSM to be your best buddy in game and coddle you that's your fault, they represent there Agenda to the Devs and nothing else. If you or anyone else comes to the stupidly false conclusion that they represent anything more then that is your fault.

They are not Noobie Help Bunnies nor should they be treated as such.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#500 - 2011-10-17 13:02:43 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Ummm...is there a list somewhere in this thread of who among the CSM is the least / most trustworthy? Or do we all eat babies?

No we're all basically scum. We've actually been compared to the Reich several times completely casually. You stay classy EVE-O.

Former member of CSM6.