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Official Protest - Mittani should be removed from CSM - *** UPDATED RESPONSE POSTED ***

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Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#341 - 2011-10-17 07:36:39 UTC
Xython wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Xython wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Phew, While reading this thread, for a second there, I thought the CSM ran CCP and EVE. Like they were the ones in power.
They are only advisers.

CCP really is dumb enough to not be able to tell when one of their advisers has a vested interest in a part of their world?

So you're saying the ideal CSM ... wouldn't have any interest in the game?

I know, lets hire the Final Fantasy 14 GM team for our CSM staff next time! They'll definitely not have any "vested interest" in the game.

I wrote a nice and long reply to this but then stopped and decided not to post it. Since you're obviously a troll.
What I said is very straight forward and I didn't mean anything more.


Not a troll, a Goon. Merch Industrial; specifically, KiTA from the Penny-Arcade forums.

But what you said certainly did not come across as very straight forward. Yes, every CSM has vested interests in the game -- they're passionate about EVE. That's why they are going through the hassle of being on the CSM and doing stuff like flying to CCP's home offices to help clean up their mess when they drop the ball.

And yes, some of them are PVPers. Fancy that, since this is a PVP Sandbox game. And yes, that includes suicide PVPing highsec people with no frustration tolerance. It's fun.

Remember CCP's motto? Harden the **** up.

But by all means, please explain if I'm misunderstanding. You appear to be suggesting he's abusing his CSM authority in some way, shape, or form by participating in PVP. Care to clarify that?


Stop talking to yourself thats silly!

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2011-10-17 07:38:15 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Stop talking to yourself thats silly!


This is a silly thread and we should all be ashamed to be posting in it.

At least it's not another Apostle dropping, though.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#343 - 2011-10-17 07:38:18 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
Oh that is rubbish, and you still represent Goons full stop, Goons are about scamming, about the worse thing about eve , about a community. You are (and in your own words) Vile.


You see this is where you just flail around. You're critiquing a valid in game playstyle and trying to say that because we play the game a certain way we're not WORTHY of being voted in by the playerbase to represent them to CCP.




Quote:

Im sure your alts dont scam either...Yeah right...


Nope. I don't scam at all. I'm not allowed to. Granted it's my own rule, but it's one I enforce. I don't really need to though since I'm eve-rich.

Quote:

No sorry but this is pure downright abuse of power and corruption. I have already contacted a few external editorials and will continually do so. You are bad for the game and bad for eve. Enough is enough now, and will no longer be tolerated.



Ok outline the abuse and/or corruption. Go ahead. Be detailed.


Read the first post, might help a bit...
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#344 - 2011-10-17 07:39:44 UTC
Keep clicking the like button, support is growing!

Its time to stand up to this...
Botleten
Perkone
Caldari State
#345 - 2011-10-17 07:39:57 UTC
Hey 'Just Another Toon', if you feel so passionately about this, why don't you start posting with your main instead of hiding behind an NPC corp alt?
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#346 - 2011-10-17 07:42:07 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:


Read the first post, might help a bit...



Your OP included no corruption nor abuse. You just whined that because he's an in game scammer you can't trust him and because you can't trust him you think he's a bad CSM. That's fine, you have your vote and all, but you haven't detailed any corruption nor abuse.


So what else you got?
Cedille Mureau
Institute of Archaeology
#347 - 2011-10-17 07:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Cedille Mureau
Tippia wrote:
Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic ideal…



Damn, how many times do I have to post this?

"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

Please note: This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members nor should it be the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage.

Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#348 - 2011-10-17 07:42:50 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


Read the first post, might help a bit...



Your OP included no corruption nor abuse. You just whined that because he's an in game scammer you can't trust him and because you can't trust him you think he's a bad CSM. That's fine, you have your vote and all, but you haven't detailed any corruption nor abuse.


So what else you got?



Think you need to read again..everyone else seems to understand it..
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#349 - 2011-10-17 07:43:34 UTC
Cedille Mureau wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic ideal…



Damn, how many times do I have to post this?

"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

Please note: This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members notr is it the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage.

Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance.


So whats the point?
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2011-10-17 07:43:48 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:


Read the first post, might help a bit...



Your OP included no corruption nor abuse. You just whined that because he's an in game scammer you can't trust him and because you can't trust him you think he's a bad CSM. That's fine, you have your vote and all, but you haven't detailed any corruption nor abuse.


So what else you got?



Think you need to read again..everyone else seems to understand it..


I don't. Please explain. Use small words, I'm a Goon after all.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#351 - 2011-10-17 07:44:26 UTC
Xython wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Xython wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Phew, While reading this thread, for a second there, I thought the CSM ran CCP and EVE. Like they were the ones in power.
They are only advisers.

CCP really is dumb enough to not be able to tell when one of their advisers has a vested interest in a part of their world?

So you're saying the ideal CSM ... wouldn't have any interest in the game?

I know, lets hire the Final Fantasy 14 GM team for our CSM staff next time! They'll definitely not have any "vested interest" in the game.

I wrote a nice and long reply to this but then stopped and decided not to post it. Since you're obviously a troll.
What I said is very straight forward and I didn't mean anything more.


Not a troll, a Goon. Merch Industrial; specifically, KiTA from the Penny-Arcade forums.

But what you said certainly did not come across as very straight forward. Yes, every CSM has vested interests in the game -- they're passionate about EVE. That's why they are going through the hassle of being on the CSM and doing stuff like flying to CCP's home offices to help clean up their mess when they drop the ball.

And yes, some of them are PVPers. Fancy that, since this is a PVP Sandbox game. And yes, that includes suicide PVPing highsec people with no frustration tolerance. It's fun.

Remember CCP's motto? Harden the **** up.

But by all means, please explain if I'm misunderstanding. You appear to be suggesting he's abusing his CSM authority in some way, shape, or form by participating in PVP. Care to clarify that?

Okay here is a version of my first reply, that I had sitting in notepad off to the side still:

I don't think I'm saying that at all.
What I was saying is this:
CCP are in control of what happens, not the CSM. CSM are only advisers.

CCP know what Mittens is good at and they know he has a lot of knowledge about nullsec. I think he's a good person to have on CSM because he has good understanding of nullsec and probably most other areas (except maybe wormhole space). They would also know that Mittens would be looking out for his own interests first. Having a vested interest in his part of nullsec is obvious.
I did not mean that having a vested interest was a bad thing. It's almost impossible to find someone who doesn't have a vested interest. Of course the people on CSM have vested interests in their part of the game.
I'm saying that CCP know all this and most likely take it into consideration when any of the CSM people talk to them.

That is all that I'm saying, nothing more.
Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#352 - 2011-10-17 07:44:45 UTC
There is no smoke without fire! Watergate Watergate!

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#353 - 2011-10-17 07:45:30 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
So whats the point?


The point of the CSM? To represent the player base and bring things up in an orderly fashion.

(If I recall correctly, wasn't the CSM founded after some CCP Dev got caught leaking information to Band of Brothers, or somesuch nonsense? I'm not fully versed in my ancient New Eden history.)
Botleten
Perkone
Caldari State
#354 - 2011-10-17 07:46:31 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:


Think you need to read again..everyone else seems to understand it..



Are you stupid or just blind? There's 18 pages of people call you an idiot in this thread. Your OP has 2100 views and 31 likes... you do the math. Somewhere in the range of 1.5% of people agree with you...
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2011-10-17 07:46:48 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Xython wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Xython wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Phew, While reading this thread, for a second there, I thought the CSM ran CCP and EVE. Like they were the ones in power.
They are only advisers.

CCP really is dumb enough to not be able to tell when one of their advisers has a vested interest in a part of their world?

So you're saying the ideal CSM ... wouldn't have any interest in the game?

I know, lets hire the Final Fantasy 14 GM team for our CSM staff next time! They'll definitely not have any "vested interest" in the game.

I wrote a nice and long reply to this but then stopped and decided not to post it. Since you're obviously a troll.
What I said is very straight forward and I didn't mean anything more.


Not a troll, a Goon. Merch Industrial; specifically, KiTA from the Penny-Arcade forums.

But what you said certainly did not come across as very straight forward. Yes, every CSM has vested interests in the game -- they're passionate about EVE. That's why they are going through the hassle of being on the CSM and doing stuff like flying to CCP's home offices to help clean up their mess when they drop the ball.

And yes, some of them are PVPers. Fancy that, since this is a PVP Sandbox game. And yes, that includes suicide PVPing highsec people with no frustration tolerance. It's fun.

Remember CCP's motto? Harden the **** up.

But by all means, please explain if I'm misunderstanding. You appear to be suggesting he's abusing his CSM authority in some way, shape, or form by participating in PVP. Care to clarify that?

Okay here is a version of my first reply, that I had sitting in notepad off to the side still:

I don't think I'm saying that at all.
What I was saying is this:
CCP are in control of what happens, not the CSM. CSM are only advisers.

CCP know what Mittens is good at and they know he has a lot of knowledge about nullsec. I think he's a good person to have on CSM because he has good understanding of nullsec and probably most other areas (except maybe wormhole space). They would also know that Mittens would be looking out for his own interests first. Having a vested interest in his part of nullsec is obvious.
I did not mean that having a vested interest was a bad thing. It's almost impossible to find someone who doesn't have a vested interest. Of course the people on CSM have vested interests in their part of the game.
I'm saying that CCP know all this and most likely take it into consideration when any of the CSM people talk to them.

That is all that I'm saying, nothing more.


Well, now that I agree with. Can you try to explain that to the OP? He seems to be off his meds. ;)
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#356 - 2011-10-17 07:47:29 UTC
didnt read it all, well not even a little.

Its just wall of text written by someone with strong feeling of entitlement for his own opinion.



I bet the discussion broke down to sand box game and other things..

So let me state one thing.

If there were not people who provide meaning to things which happening in EVE than it will be dead end game. Players are and should be one who makes the game interesting. And that is what goons and other alliances doing.

From carebear point, my point.

Its awesome that things happens, i am just an small fish with no real/significant impact on EVE universe. Its sad. But i wish good luck to anyone who actually try to provide more fun and meaning to all us soldiers.

As an soldier who signs up for CTAs you are not one who make a change, well you are but THOSE WHO PROVIDE SUCH OPPORTUNITIES ARE BLESSED AND MAKE EVE what it SHOULD BE.

Otherwise it would be botting haeven and by bots i dont mean 3rd party programs but autistic people who grind and grind so they can .. hmm what have sufficient ISKs for ??? Dont know where it would end. But i personally dont see it as bright future.
Just Another Toon
Doomheim
#357 - 2011-10-17 07:47:32 UTC
Xython wrote:
Just Another Toon wrote:
So whats the point?


The point of the CSM? To represent the player base and bring things up in an orderly fashion.

(If I recall correctly, wasn't the CSM founded after some CCP Dev got caught leaking information to Band of Brothers, or somesuch nonsense? I'm not fully versed in my ancient New Eden history.)



No your point...

and yes to REPRESENT THE PLAYERBASE.... think about that for the moment. also 'for the greater good of the playerbase'

are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2011-10-17 07:48:15 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Think you need to read again..everyone else seems to understand it..

Actually you and the voices in your head are the only ones who understand it. Every page of this thread is full of people asking for clarification.
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2011-10-17 07:49:07 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
are you saying the actions of the mittani, his scamming etc is 'for the greater good' ??? really?

Prove that it's not.
Cedille Mureau
Institute of Archaeology
#360 - 2011-10-17 07:49:52 UTC
Just Another Toon wrote:
Cedille Mureau wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Please post the official rule saying that the CSM is somehow magically different from all other elected representative bodies in the history of mankind and that they must uphold your rather unrealistic ideal…



Damn, how many times do I have to post this?

"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP. " My emphasis.

Please note: This document was originally created by Pétur Jóhannes Óskarsson on behalf of CCP.

The CSM is not a vehicle for massaging the egos of its members notr is it the means whereby a minority of the game gets an unfair advantage.

Sorry about the long delay in replying to Tippia's post, but timezones are a nuisance.


So whats the point?



The point being that CCP set up the CSM to represent the whole of the EVE players base and not as has happened to further the aims of a minority who happen to get most of the CSM members elected.

Don't know about the USA but in the UK no matter what party the MP belongs to it is their duty to represent the WHOLE of their consitiuents' interests not just those voters of the party to which they belong.