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New Bounty System .-. Success or Failure
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-04-07 13:27:03 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
And judging from the miners posting in this thread bounties do make highsec more dangerous. Gank mechanics are made much more profitable by a high bounty. Think about a guy with a billion isk bounty out missioning, if a ganker finds and suicides him the gankers ship is paid for before the loot is scooped, the mission ship loot is all gravy.


If not in a NPC corp. The worst offenders are in NPC corps with some serious negative standings, as there's little recourse to deal with them (can't war dec them for one). Some have bounties in the hundreds of millions, and KB ganks to prove how they got their bounties.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#62 - 2013-04-07 13:42:25 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
If not in a NPC corp. The worst offenders are in NPC corps with some serious negative standings, as there's little recourse to deal with them (can't war dec them for one). Some have bounties in the hundreds of millions, and KB ganks to prove how they got their bounties.
…in which case there is an obvious line of recourse to deal with them.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-04-07 13:54:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[]…in which case there is an obvious line of recourse to deal with them.


If anyone is willing to bother. 20% payout on trash isn't much of a bounty hunter incentive.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-04-07 14:22:51 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Tippia wrote:

Miilla wrote:
So why should I be as safe as somebody without a bounty not being wanted and me being wanted say for example by 100 corps, 100 aliances and 10,000 players? Or as equally safe as somebody who is only wanted for 100,000 and 1 player?

Why should I be as equally as safe as them?
Good news: you're not.
The fact that you have a bounty makes you a more valuable target for attackers to go after than if you didn't have it. Flying more expensive ships becomes even more risky since you start making yourself a free gank, from the hull alone.

Bounties offer a motivation to attack, not a means to do so — that's the job of Crimewatch. Higher bounty = higher motivation = higher risk. It's not rocket surgery.

yea.
now just compare bounty for 100billion and 1mil ISK.
Let's say your main ship - Catalyst. Total price is like 5 millions.
The main your job is - suicide ganking miners.

Better bounty == bigger risk you say?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#65 - 2013-04-07 14:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ace Uoweme wrote:
If anyone is willing to bother. 20% payout on trash isn't much of a bounty hunter incentive.
That entirely depends on the ship, which means that the bounty-holder needs to adjust his flying to remain safe, which often means he's commonly easier to kill.

And it doesn't change the fact that if they have a KB full of ganks to provide a reason for their bounties, there's plenty of recourse to get back at them. Since the kills are free, a couple of million here and there will start to add up rather quickly.

March rabbit wrote:
now just compare bounty for 100billion and 1mil ISK.
Let's say your main ship - Catalyst. Total price is like 5 millions.
The main your job is - suicide ganking miners.

Better bounty == bigger risk you say?
Yup. Otherwise, he wouldn't have to manage that risk and could fly around in whatever he wanted.

Said ganker is a free kill — the bounty is all profit — and he is now limited to only ever flying single-digit-million ships. He is already at an elevated risk, and flying something more racks it up even further.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#66 - 2013-04-07 14:57:20 UTC
Huge success.

The Tears Must Flow
Fairren
HellrisCorp
#67 - 2013-04-07 15:05:06 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Fairren wrote:
How exactly are accounts of different players going to be linked?


What?

How would different players be related to how Battle.net links accounts (and for the point of addressing an issue in how to address the bounty payout exploits)?

Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-04-07 15:22:46 UTC
Fairren wrote:
Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that?


Much like it stops 10000001 exploits and abuses in WoW.

Accountability.

Losing one account is, "bah". Losing 10+, hurts.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-04-07 15:39:42 UTC
The improvement that should be made is to make killrights salable on contracts as if they were items in addition to what we have already.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Fairren
HellrisCorp
#70 - 2013-04-07 15:44:25 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Fairren wrote:
Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that?


Much like it stops 10000001 exploits and abuses in WoW.

Accountability.

Losing one account is, "bah". Losing 10+, hurts.

And you catch them how?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-04-07 15:50:04 UTC
Fairren wrote:
And you catch them how?


Couple months back some hacker group discovered (8 years too late) that Blizzard was imprinting screenshots with watermarks with Date/time/server/user ID. It's been surmised that this was done to track photos (NDA violations to private servers).

What you don't know can hurt you.

Fly safe!

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Fairren
HellrisCorp
#72 - 2013-04-07 15:54:17 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Fairren wrote:
And you catch them how?

I have no idea so I rambled about WoW some more.

That's how I read it.
Lady Areola Fappington
#73 - 2013-04-07 16:09:16 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Fairren wrote:
Whatever abuse people are doing with alts can also be done by asking their friends to do it, instead of using their own alts. How is account-linking going to stop that?


Much like it stops 10000001 exploits and abuses in WoW.

Accountability.

Losing one account is, "bah". Losing 10+, hurts.


I think you are confusing something here. Awoxing, corptheft, ganking, bumping, and all those fun "bad" activities are neither exploits or abuses. It's a legit way to play EVE.

You may not have noticed, but we New Order Agents happen to hate exploits and abuses of our game. We tend to target mining bots. There's even a manifesto.

Trying to link character=player is never gonna fly. Some of us understand Eve to be a game, and the whole "consequences for your actions" routine stops right at the character select screen. I can choose to play an evil mean pie-rat, a fluffywambler carebear, a charismatic sov holding CEO...and unless I choose to link them together, each one is it's own entity.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-04-07 16:22:05 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I think you are confusing something here. Awoxing, corptheft, ganking, bumping, and all those fun "bad" activities are neither exploits or abuses. It's a legit way to play EVE.


Where did you come from with that left field response? Pluto?

Anyone mentioned that stuff?

Read before replying, it helps.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Lady Areola Fappington
#75 - 2013-04-07 16:28:45 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I think you are confusing something here. Awoxing, corptheft, ganking, bumping, and all those fun "bad" activities are neither exploits or abuses. It's a legit way to play EVE.


Where did you come from with that left field response? Pluto?

Anyone mentioned that stuff?

Read before replying, it helps.


I've read. I see whinging about bounties, complaints about the bad people doing bad things in EVE and how the bounty system doesn't slow them down, then this weirdness about linking accounts.

The conclusion I draw, you mad about bad people doing bad things, and you want CCP to fixit.

If I'm wrong, which has happened on very rare occasions, consider this your mandatory New order threadjack.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-04-07 16:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I've read. I see whinging about bounties, complaints about the bad people doing bad things in EVE and how the bounty system doesn't slow them down, then this weirdness about linking accounts.


It's weird if someone wants to evade detection.

It's weird if someone wants to exploit the system.

It's weird for players who share accounts.

Yeah, weird for the wrong reasons.

Bring accountability into the equation, we could have a bounty system that has meaning...and tougher to exploit.

The bounty system was changed due to exploiting the payout. And in effect we have a bounty system that isn't as effective as it could be, as the accountability isn't there. Someone with 10 accounts isn't linked, so account #1 has the bounty, while account #10 is going to pop his own.

We can't have good things because of that. That's what is truly weird.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-04-07 16:54:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:

March rabbit wrote:
now just compare bounty for 100billion and 1mil ISK.
Let's say your main ship - Catalyst. Total price is like 5 millions.
The main your job is - suicide ganking miners.

Better bounty == bigger risk you say?
Yup. Otherwise, he wouldn't have to manage that risk and could fly around in whatever he wanted.

Said ganker is a free kill — the bounty is all profit — and he is now limited to only ever flying single-digit-million ships. He is already at an elevated risk, and flying something more racks it up even further.

you mean bounty somehow changes the fact that you will get attacked by NPC for having bad SS? Or maybe 1 million of bounty you can get by catching and killing it worth any effort?

Once i spend some time trying to catch one suicider. he used station, docked in a pod, undocked to undock bookmark in catalyst, then warp to whatever point and work. After 10-15 minutes i decided that even if i kill him any bounty/loot don't worth wasted time.

So what exactly makes 100billions bounty of this person to increase his risk? To change his "life" (which is 100% is suicide ganking)?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-04-07 17:46:07 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
So what exactly makes 100billions bounty of this person to increase his risk? To change his "life" (which is 100% is suicide ganking)?


He'll just go back to do it again. That's what he exists to do.

There's no real incentive to hunt him down, as tomorrow he's busy ganking again.

Now if the bounty system had teeth, he would have to think more than losing a cheap 2m ISK ship, as now there's a risk more than his worthless life.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Lady Areola Fappington
#79 - 2013-04-07 18:11:35 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:


He'll just go back to do it again. That's what he exists to do.

There's no real incentive to hunt him down, as tomorrow he's busy ganking again.

Now if the bounty system had teeth, he would have to think more than losing a cheap 2m ISK ship, as now there's a risk more than his worthless life.


And, as I said, your "accountability" ends at the login screen. If CCP had wanted it any differently, we'd be limited to single chars with no extra accounts allowed. That's the amazing fun of alts, you can choose to do something new. If you take minimal steps to keep your alts separate, nobody will know.

This is something I've noticed out of a lot of carebears. They tend to think of their toons as "themselves", and assign their own personality and motives. Us gankers (I have the most experience with them) just treat it like a game. Lady Faps is a jackbooted anti-miner thug. My industrial alt is a super nice builder type. Outside of the game, I'm a slightly jaded disabled combat vet studying for a PhD. in nursing.

What I do in EVE has no more bearing on me as a person, then what I do playing any other game. It's a video game

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-04-07 18:23:03 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
And, as I said, your "accountability" ends at the login screen.


I believe even CCP won't agree with that viewpoint. You bet they believe in accountability on their property.

Pull back some there, as that's some extreme views, that isn't reality.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell