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What are the main reasons AFK cloaking exists and is disliked.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#101 - 2013-04-12 15:23:43 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Well thing is you do a lot of stuff AFK. Be eyes in a system, wait for a fleet. I agree it's a cheap tactic though, similarily I've been on both ends of it.

I think CCP should approach this like Tiericide, by iterations. They actually made a lot of T1 ships viable through step-by-step rebalance. So:

- Rebalance industry, wait for results.
- Rebalance PvE (Which they may be doing in Odyssey), wait for results.
- Rebalance intel, wait for results.
- Rebalance sov, wait for results.
- Look at AFK cloaking if it still remains there.

It's a pendulum of imbalance that can't be resolved. Maybe if some of the underlaying problems are resolved, AFK cloaking will be gone on its own?


By Rebalance Intel I assume that includes Local, if so that may be the way to do it, personally I like cloaking as it is and would hate it to be changed.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#102 - 2013-04-12 15:32:26 UTC
Yeah - I mean rebalance local. I mean, in the end it's kind of silly that it's a chat channel used as an intel tool.

I was about to write that it should be replaced with an actual intel tool, but then where would the smacktalk go! Local has to stay. In some form.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#103 - 2013-04-12 15:42:57 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
... which is why I suggested they create a new region and have no local and no intel and see how that pans out, and it it not being earned is the same as saying it should be fair, its not a case of fairness in my opinion, but more to do with the catastrophic reduction in numbers in 0.0.[/b][/u]

We agree on some points.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191208&find=unread
You may find that worth reading.

I would point out that the intel you reference as being just as bad by showing activity can be used both ways too.
A clever PvE pilot could use this to show the likely places where hunters are likely to show up, and avoid them if not plan accordingly in some other manner.

See, this is the difference, intel requires someone to process it, and make a judgement call based off of it.
Local, by contrast, acts like a primitive version of radar, by letting you see who is and is not currently present. No processing needed, just watch for non blue pilots in that list.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#104 - 2013-04-12 15:56:49 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
... which is why I suggested they create a new region and have no local and no intel and see how that pans out, and it it not being earned is the same as saying it should be fair, its not a case of fairness in my opinion, but more to do with the catastrophic reduction in numbers in 0.0.[/b][/u]

We agree on some points.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191208&find=unread
You may find that worth reading.

I would point out that the intel you reference as being just as bad by showing activity can be used both ways too.
A clever PvE pilot could use this to show the likely places where hunters are likely to show up, and avoid them if not plan accordingly in some other manner.

See, this is the difference, intel requires someone to process it, and make a judgement call based off of it.
Local, by contrast, acts like a primitive version of radar, by letting you see who is and is not currently present. No processing needed, just watch for non blue pilots in that list.


In terms of the PVE player, I was hoping to go in the systems that are not as good and not get noticed, which is why I did not want the rats killed showing up and highlighting me being there, I could operate without local, but that intel has to go for me to go for it.

Excellent ideas in that thread, I like it Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#105 - 2013-04-12 16:03:46 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
... which is why I suggested they create a new region and have no local and no intel and see how that pans out, and it it not being earned is the same as saying it should be fair, its not a case of fairness in my opinion, but more to do with the catastrophic reduction in numbers in 0.0.[/b][/u]

We agree on some points.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191208&find=unread
You may find that worth reading.

I would point out that the intel you reference as being just as bad by showing activity can be used both ways too.
A clever PvE pilot could use this to show the likely places where hunters are likely to show up, and avoid them if not plan accordingly in some other manner.

See, this is the difference, intel requires someone to process it, and make a judgement call based off of it.
Local, by contrast, acts like a primitive version of radar, by letting you see who is and is not currently present. No processing needed, just watch for non blue pilots in that list.


In terms of the PVE player, I was hoping to go in the systems that are not as good and not get noticed, which is why I did not want the rats killed showing up and highlighting me being there, I could operate without local, but that intel has to go for me to go for it.

Excellent ideas in that thread, I like it Big smile

I could see logic in only updating once every 24 hours for this rats killed, and like items.
It is straying a bit close to live intel when updated too much, and I think live intel should require first or second party efforts.
Friend of a friend or websites or even in game maps should not be expected to give up to the minute intel reliably.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2013-04-12 16:18:57 UTC
The intel issue may be tied to static truesec. Just a glance at the static map will highlight potential ratting spots.

People are more likely to rat in low-truesec areas, simple as that. Entire regions may be devoid of life and three-four systems can be booming because of their truesec status. Perhaps replacing truesec with a more dynamic mechanic would help vary things up - for now even without rat kills/hour it's easy to look at the map and think "Well, this is a -0.8 system, best in the region. Surely someone is there."

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Jacid
Corvix.
#107 - 2013-04-12 16:22:47 UTC
I think the intel aspect is more of dotlan maps ability to tell how many NPC kills in the last hour.. if they limit that data to the last 24 hours it would still be enough info to find likely locations without them being definite locations.. i could agree to that.. remove local, delay dotlan / maps in eve intel to 24 delay. Maybe tweek rat payouts and mineral densities a bit to offset the extra effort of mashing d-scan.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#108 - 2013-04-12 16:34:58 UTC
Jacid wrote:
I think the intel aspect is more of dotlan maps ability to tell how many NPC kills in the last hour.. if they limit that data to the last 24 hours it would still be enough info to find likely locations without them being definite locations.. i could agree to that.. remove local, delay dotlan / maps in eve intel to 24 delay. Maybe tweek rat payouts and mineral densities a bit to offset the extra effort of mashing d-scan.

This makes sense.

And it also illustrates the concept that the more differences between high sec and null regarding effort, the more can exist regarding reward.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#109 - 2013-04-12 16:41:02 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
it's easy to look at the map and think "Well, this is a -0.8 system, best in the region. Surely someone is there."

You are right about it being easy, but at the same time you are describing a tactic that relies on profiling.
No specific data is being referenced, just a very generalized expectation.

Sometimes profiling works, but it always gives the same information to everyone.

Jita is always busy. -Profile based on past activity in general.

Want a place to advertise to a lot of players? go to Jita. -Targeting based on profile.
Want a quiet place to be alone? avoid Jita. -Filtering based on profile.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#110 - 2013-04-12 17:08:22 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Jacid wrote:
I think the intel aspect is more of dotlan maps ability to tell how many NPC kills in the last hour.. if they limit that data to the last 24 hours it would still be enough info to find likely locations without them being definite locations.. i could agree to that.. remove local, delay dotlan / maps in eve intel to 24 delay. Maybe tweek rat payouts and mineral densities a bit to offset the extra effort of mashing d-scan.

This makes sense.

And it also illustrates the concept that the more differences between high sec and null regarding effort, the more can exist regarding reward.


I would be prepared to give that a go too, I have no personal concerns about operating without local, and as long as people have to work to locate my ratting I can minimize risk by picking systems to make it harder for them.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp