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Caldari Prime now a DMZ

Author
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#81 - 2013-04-04 04:59:20 UTC
Thank you, Khross-haan, for your research on this matter! It's very much appreciated. While I'd been reviewing news over the past four years, I hadn't completed my review. Your summary allowed me to fill in the gaps in my knowledge. Really, though, this allowed me to confirm much that I suspected: Heth's power is a product of voluntary ceding of authority.

This is to state: aside from the admittedly very suspect seizure of Caldari Constructions, Heth has no inviolable control. A CEO doesn't own a corporation; he is an executive elected by the board of directors to make strategic decisions as a proxy for the board. In the case of Ytiri, there is no statement of ownership share. The same is true of Kaalakiota. If the boards of either should wish to depose Heth, all that is required is a vote. My suspicion, though, is that these corporations will not be quick to replace the man on account of his former popularity -- they likely don't wish to antagonize their work force unnecessarily. Given time, though...

I should elaborate on why I consider Heth's seizure of Caldari Constructions suspect. How exactly does an MTAC operator get the funds to purchase majority stake in a major corporation? Even if share prices were plummeting, you'd have to figure an opportunistic megacorporation would have gotten to it first...?

I think of the position of Executor as being the state's equivalent to a corporation's CEO: a position elected by the board to operate a corporation on the board's behalf. Just as this is the case, the Executor's position is taken at the behest of the CEP. I believe they could rightly dissolve it, or replace Heth on account of poor performance.

All that Heth has legitimate claim to, then, is Caldari Constructions, and arguably the Caldari Providence Directorate.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#82 - 2013-04-04 06:22:21 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
DMZ... this was a weak and indecent move, but still it is for better of our people.

Luckily, Gallente Prime and other gallentean territories are not DMZ. We must use it to retaliate them there. While gallenteans have weapons, none of DMZ declarations will provide safety to Home Planet.
Gallentes already show that they break treaties, and we must force them to never break it again.


Just this once, this one time do you think you could be silent and let a step forward be appreciated for what it is?

I will appreciate when gallentes will pay for their atrocity when they dropped our titan on Caldari Prime, killing millions of innocents.

You are aware that said titan was directly threatening the planet in Gallente space?
I'm tired of this feuding. Why can't we all get along? Leave this feuding to the lawless pirates and capsuleers living out in God knows where doing God knows what.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#83 - 2013-04-04 09:45:51 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:

You are aware that said titan was directly threatening the planet in Gallente space?
I'm tired of this feuding. Why can't we all get along? Leave this feuding to the lawless pirates and capsuleers living out in God knows where doing God knows what.

It was OUR Titan on orbit of OUR planet. This is not a pesky gallentean affair what we do with our ships. They broke our sovereignty without real excuse, just to kill millions on the planet below.
Simply while gallentes are allowed to do things like this, "getting along" is plainly impossible.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#84 - 2013-04-04 10:13:48 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

Simply while gallentes are allowed to do things like this, "getting along" is plainly impossible.


We get along just fine. Just need to take one look around a station in Jita to see how thoroughly invested the Federation is in the Caldari market. Meanwhile, by far the most lucrative opportunities I enjoy are in Federation space.

This settlement is sound. Whilst I suspect it will take stocks some time to recover during the aftermath of the battle, long-term gains are in sight after this decision. For us, this is the best outcome to come from a bad situation.

Leave the cannon-waving to the tribal warlords and remember that you are Caldari. This disaster could have been avoided if not for the gung-ho attitude of the provists. Hopefully following this turn of events, further short-sighted losses can be minimized.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#85 - 2013-04-04 10:22:49 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
[...] (Cut for length, no disrespect intended)


You would not be the first or last to consider Executor Heth's sudden ownership over CC suspect.

Your point regarding the voluntary ceding of powers by the megacorporations is an accurate one, and one that I've made myself many times. It should be reiterated, however, that the position of "Executor" did not exist before Tibus Heth and it is my sincere hope that it doesn't continue to exist after him. The CEP has proven itself capable of managing State affairs and embodies our ideals to a much fuller extent.

~Malcolm Khross

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2013-04-04 16:55:47 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:

I don't think I ever calmed to be a humanitarian Msr. Tuulinen.
But you may rest assured my contributions to conditions on Caldari Prime do have... effects.


Yes, I remember. You shipped arms and explosives to terrorists. Let's hope that they're able to find all those arms and explosives now the planet is being demilled, eh? It would be a shame if the only thing of lasting worth that you'd accomplished would be to fund and equip criminals, wouldn't it?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-04-04 17:08:19 UTC
Man, I really dodged a bullet when you turned down my job offer, didn't I James?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Nicolas Merovech
Doomheim
#88 - 2013-04-04 20:13:08 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
DMZ... this was a weak and indecent move, but still it is for better of our people.

Luckily, Gallente Prime and other gallentean territories are not DMZ. We must use it to retaliate them there. While gallenteans have weapons, none of DMZ declarations will provide safety to Home Planet.
Gallentes already show that they break treaties, and we must force them to never break it again.


War-mongering hypocrite.

Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Ph. D, M.D.

Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#89 - 2013-04-04 23:08:12 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:

You are aware that said titan was directly threatening the planet in Gallente space?
I'm tired of this feuding. Why can't we all get along? Leave this feuding to the lawless pirates and capsuleers living out in God knows where doing God knows what.

It was OUR Titan on orbit of OUR planet. This is not a pesky gallentean affair what we do with our ships. They broke our sovereignty without real excuse, just to kill millions on the planet below.

And the attempt to stop aid from being received by those who were fortunate enough to (barely) survive that event is an attempt to preserve 'pride'. Typical. Pride means different things to different people, and though the Provists might think that what they did is honorable, to everyone else in New Eden, it is just shameful. Even the Amarr look down on you for your cold contempt.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.

Liuni Kalthis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-04-05 00:25:49 UTC
Good to see the leaders started to act like adults. Still, there is no price I wouldn't pay to be a fly on Heth's wall when he heard the news the Corporations went around him.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#91 - 2013-04-05 00:44:52 UTC
Liuni Kalthis wrote:
Good to see the leaders started to act like adults. Still, there is no price I wouldn't pay to be a fly on Heth's wall when he heard the news the Corporations went around him.


They didn't go around him, that would imply that he has that level of authority. The only thing that has happened here is that out of the eight megacorporate CEOs that sit on the Chief Executive Panel (Heth being one of the eight), the majority ruled against Heth's wishes instead of complying with them (either by the lack of opposition or the presence of support).

They did not go around him, they simply exercised their authority.

~Malcolm Khross

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-04-05 00:52:15 UTC
Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

Simply while gallentes are allowed to do things like this, "getting along" is plainly impossible.


We get along just fine. Just need to take one look around a station in Jita to see how thoroughly invested the Federation is in the Caldari market. Meanwhile, by far the most lucrative opportunities I enjoy are in Federation space.

Federation goods are decadent and vulgar. They have nothing of value, that they can give us. All their ideas, all their money and products are dirty as they are themselves.

Quinzel Nikulainen wrote:

This settlement is sound. Whilst I suspect it will take stocks some time to recover during the aftermath of the battle, long-term gains are in sight after this decision. For us, this is the best outcome to come from a bad situation.

Leave the cannon-waving to the tribal warlords and remember that you are Caldari. This disaster could have been avoided if not for the gung-ho attitude of the provists. Hopefully following this turn of events, further short-sighted losses can be minimized.

For those, who weren't present at the battle for our Home Planet, it was federation "gung-ho attitude" that caused this massacre and catastrophe. Provists were only defending our planet.

And to avoid it in the future we must rend gallentes to be unable to hold weapons ever again!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#93 - 2013-04-05 01:47:01 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:

I don't think I ever calmed to be a humanitarian Msr. Tuulinen.
But you may rest assured my contributions to conditions on Caldari Prime do have... effects.


Yes, I remember. You shipped arms and explosives to terrorists. Let's hope that they're able to find all those arms and explosives now the planet is being demilled, eh? It would be a shame if the only thing of lasting worth that you'd accomplished would be to fund and equip criminals, wouldn't it?

Pieter, those "terrorist" were Gallenteans civilians fighting a repressive foreign occupation.

I know and understand that most Caldari view Caldari Prime as "Home", but so do those you call terrorists.

My position on the disposition of Caldari Prime is common knowledge. But any government that hopes to stand a chance of bringing peace and stability to Caldari Prime is going to have to acknowledge the non-Caldari who have called it home for generations.

The ethnically pure planet of your collective cultural fantasy no longer exists.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#94 - 2013-04-05 01:51:17 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Man, I really dodged a bullet when you turned down my job offer, didn't I James?


Perhaps you did at that Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-04-05 07:00:32 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
And to avoid it in the future we must rend gallentes to be unable to hold weapons ever again!

Quite obviously not gonna happen. You know this to be true and it makes you so mad. Big smile

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-04-05 10:53:38 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:

I don't think I ever calmed to be a humanitarian Msr. Tuulinen.
But you may rest assured my contributions to conditions on Caldari Prime do have... effects.


Yes, I remember. You shipped arms and explosives to terrorists. Let's hope that they're able to find all those arms and explosives now the planet is being demilled, eh? It would be a shame if the only thing of lasting worth that you'd accomplished would be to fund and equip criminals, wouldn't it?

Pieter, those "terrorist" were Gallenteans civilians fighting a repressive foreign occupation.

I know and understand that most Caldari view Caldari Prime as "Home", but so do those you call terrorists.

My position on the disposition of Caldari Prime is common knowledge. But any government that hopes to stand a chance of bringing peace and stability to Caldari Prime is going to have to acknowledge the non-Caldari who have called it home for generations.

The ethnically pure planet of your collective cultural fantasy no longer exists.

Those "Gallentean civilians" were hired mercs dropped by Federation earlier to provoke response by orbiting fleet.
Besides, it is OUR planet, and it is GALLENTE scumdogs who were occupying it. You can't place occupation on occupants. This is like... I dunno, maybe gallenteans could, their wicked ideals of freedom and liberty can call this things like occupation.
But it won't change the fact that it is our home, not their, and it is gallenteans on Caldari Prime who are aliens and must be get rid of. They were occupants.

Thanks to our glorious leader Tibus Heth, occupation is no more.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#97 - 2013-04-05 12:33:25 UTC
So some additional details.

Fifty-Four percent of Caldari Prime will be administered by Ishukone with the citizens there retaining their corporate citizenship and subject to Ishukone law and taxes. THe other fourty-six percent will be Gallente territory administrated by Material Aquisition, a subsidiary of Quafe with everyone living in those districts being considered Federation citizens and subject to their law. Neither side are to be racially segregated which, assuming it holds up, will be different from both the past five years as well as former Gaallente occupation. Modrus Legion will provide security and policing from a joint fund operated equally by the CEP and the Federation.


I can't say I agree with the move to have nearly half of the planet owned by the Gallente. I do hope it is just a transitional step on the road to Caldari Prime being fully returned to the Caldari people. I have no issues with Gallente still living on the planet if they so choose, but they would become Caldari Citizens if the planet were to be fully returned to our control.
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#98 - 2013-04-05 12:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Anja Suorsa
Xindi Kraid wrote:
So some additional details.

Fifty-Four percent of Caldari Prime will be administered by Ishukone with the citizens there retaining their corporate citizenship and subject to Ishukone law and taxes. THe other fourty-six percent will be Gallente territory administrated by Material Aquisition, a subsidiary of Quafe with everyone living in those districts being considered Federation citizens and subject to their law. Neither side are to be racially segregated which, assuming it holds up, will be different from both the past five years as well as former Gaallente occupation. Modrus Legion will provide security and policing from a joint fund operated equally by the CEP and the Federation.


I can't say I agree with the move to have nearly half of the planet owned by the Gallente. I do hope it is just a transitional step on the road to Caldari Prime being fully returned to the Caldari people. I have no issues with Gallente still living on the planet if they so choose, but they would become Caldari Citizens if the planet were to be fully returned to our control.


I can't say I'm overly surprised with this outcome. Disappointed, yes, but not surprised. At least now we know what the Federation gained. Half of something that was never theirs to begin with.

I find myself in agreement with Alakoni Ishanoya afterall.
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#99 - 2013-04-05 12:49:48 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

Federation goods are decadent and vulgar. They have nothing of value, that they can give us. All their ideas, all their money and products are dirty as they are themselves.


By extension I assume that the Provists will be declaring a State of War with Nugoeihuvi?

Diana Kim wrote:

For those, who weren't present at the battle for our Home Planet, it was federation "gung-ho attitude" that caused this massacre and catastrophe. Provists were only defending our planet.

And to avoid it in the future we must rend gallentes to be unable to hold weapons ever again!


Your hypocrisy is showing.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.

Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#100 - 2013-04-05 14:47:10 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
So some additional details.

Fifty-Four percent of Caldari Prime will be administered by Ishukone with the citizens there retaining their corporate citizenship and subject to Ishukone law and taxes. THe other fourty-six percent will be Gallente territory administrated by Material Aquisition, a subsidiary of Quafe with everyone living in those districts being considered Federation citizens and subject to their law. Neither side are to be racially segregated which, assuming it holds up, will be different from both the past five years as well as former Gaallente occupation. Modrus Legion will provide security and policing from a joint fund operated equally by the CEP and the Federation.


I can't say I agree with the move to have nearly half of the planet owned by the Gallente. I do hope it is just a transitional step on the road to Caldari Prime being fully returned to the Caldari people. I have no issues with Gallente still living on the planet if they so choose, but they would become Caldari Citizens if the planet were to be fully returned to our control.

To be fair, Quafe is the only non-Caldari corporation fully recognized by the CEP as having corporate sovereignty within the borders of the State. While there should, no doubt, be some remuneration paid by Quafe and its subsidiaries for the territory under their administration, Quafe enclaves elsewhere in the State retain similar rights and privileges.