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Dev blog: Odyssey summer expansion: Starbase iterations

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Ley 'Urhg' Grotman
Justified and Ancient
#61 - 2013-04-02 15:40:38 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Sweet blog! Think this one will push you over 5k? Blink


I guess that will depend on whether Starbase users are a small portion of the community or not. Lol
I gave you six likes from both my accounts. Hope that says enough. P
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#62 - 2013-04-02 15:41:03 UTC
Quote:
Accessing starbase arrays from anywhere within the shield

The requirement to move within range of each and every starbase structure to access their storage is a major annoyance for most starbase users, and one we are working to fix. Thanks to new advances in starbase technology, tiny drones will now carry items to and fro within the shield bubble. This changes the POS module access range to instead check that your ship is inside the shield, allowing players to access all the structures from one location.


Interesting... Does this mean if the POS is offline, or online without a shield, you cannot access any materials in any starbase structures because there is no shield to be "within"?
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2013-04-02 15:41:34 UTC
Great to see we're getting some love for starbases.

Can you also confirm if any of these ideas are being looked into (perhaps as later Odyssey patches)?

a) Starbase weapon rebalancing
We could use a fresh look at the various weapons that haven't been touched in 7+ years. Starbase mods were all balanced around fighting ships as they were in 2005/2006. Obviously ships have moved on a lot since then, but the starbase weapons have never been revisted to keep up.
A perfect example is the way the SDM skill and Energy Neuts were introduced to counter dreadnoughts, then supercaps made them obsolete* a short while later. There's also the matter of missile and hybrid comedy-weapons, which are currently used as a metric to determine when someone has no clue what they're doing with a starbase.

b) Centralised ammo mananagement
A way to check from the starbase window if all the weapons on the tower have sufficient ammo/crystals, without needing to fly over to each one. Unless of course the 'access modules within the shield' change affects this somehow.

c) Starbase Defense Management UI
Why do I need to click the guns one. at. a. time. to control them? What's wrong with shift clicking several at once to grab control?

d) Auditing
I'm sure the logs always show something these days, but it would be really nice if we could see them too. If starbases wrote to a central log for that corporation which allowed directors to see the latest happenings, e.g:

18 Apr 2013 12:10:11 - Jita Planet 1 Moon 1 – Silo offlined by xttz
18 Apr 2013 12:10:43 - Jita Planet 1 Moon 1 – Control tower unanchored by xttz
18 Apr 2013 12:11:23 – CCP-US Planet 4 Moon 2 – 405 Fuel Blocks removed by xttz

I imagine this would also save a fair few requests for GM's to investigate 'bugs' with starbases.

e) Standings-based Forcefield Access
Yep I went there.


*outside of wormholes of course
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#64 - 2013-04-02 15:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ P0N-3
Pancakes and jubilation!

I agree with the general sentiment that directors/CEOs should be able to empty hangars. Let's not see a repeat of the damaged crystals in POS guns bug in personal hangar form.
Sedilis
Lead Farmers
#65 - 2013-04-02 15:42:47 UTC
At the risk of making personal hangers a bit OP it would be really nice if you could make them have more capacity per person. Or have an extra large version maybe?

A current workaround for personal SMA that is commonly used in wspace is for members to move assembled shiny ships (eg T3s) from the SMA to a CHA hanger division only they or a limited number of people have access . Its a bit of a PITA because you have to move them back to the SMA for boarding but it helps security a little bit.

With the proposed 40k m3 that would be far too small to store even one T3. An extra large PCHA with maybe 500k m3 would allow people to store 4-5 T3s or a Faction battleship. Even if you made it have similar fitting requirements to a CSMA that would give us something close to personal SMA security if you cant implement the personal SMAs.

Please consider that as a alternative.
Tshaowdyne Dvorak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-04-02 15:42:56 UTC
Dalcho wrote:
However I agree that ceo/directtors MUST be allowed access to remove items rather than destroying them for afk/on vacation members.


This defeats the purpose of personal storage. Remember, these changes are a stopgap for a full POS overhaul, not the final product. I think that many of us who have to live out of a POS are tired of the theft problems inherent in a poorly designed system. Someone can get director access and clean out everyone's stuff, and it happens all the time in Eve.

I don't think it's the best solution that the only ways to get rid of a player's crap who has left the corp is to blow up the hangar or to unanchor it, but short of a full overhaul of the roles system (which is the clear solution that must eventually be implemented) it's a reasonable compromise that I'm willing to accept in order to have storage completely incapable of being stolen. I'd rather my crap burn in a fire than have it be stolen by some jerk who I didn't approve of, and had no say in, getting a directorship.

On the other hand, since it seems like the personal storage will be available to all members of the corp, maybe there's no upper limit to how much the structure can store. Then it hardly matters whether directors/CEO can access what's in there since it's not depleting valuable storage space for others. If that's the case, the only reason they'd want access to it is in order to take what isn't theirs. The rage of thieves warms the cockles of my heart.
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-04-02 15:43:20 UTC
CCP, you glorious bastards, this is awesome!
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#68 - 2013-04-02 15:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dibblerette
EDIT: Nevermind, mixed up CSAA with CSMA. Carry on.
Vesago
Doomheim
#69 - 2013-04-02 15:44:10 UTC
xttz wrote:


d) Auditing
I'm sure the logs always show something these days, but it would be really nice if we could see them too. If starbases wrote to a central log for that corporation which allowed directors to see the latest happenings, e.g:

18 Apr 2013 12:10:11 - Jita Planet 1 Moon 1 – Silo offlined by xttz
18 Apr 2013 12:10:43 - Jita Planet 1 Moon 1 – Control tower unanchored by xttz
18 Apr 2013 12:11:23 – CCP-US Planet 4 Moon 2 – 405 Fuel Blocks removed by xttz

I imagine this would also save a fair few requests for GM's to investigate 'bugs' with starbases.


*outside of wormholes of course



Ditto. Hell, do htis for Corporate Hangars too!
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-04-02 15:45:02 UTC
This is great news!!!
Psihius
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-04-02 15:45:06 UTC
Well, maybe CEO/Director should not be able to take stuff while character is in the corporation, but when he's out - access should be allowed.
vasanizome
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-04-02 15:47:26 UTC  |  Edited by: vasanizome
It will nice if u change some stront mechanics

In strontium hangar of a pos atm u can cannot split strontium .

So when the pos is under attack its critical to adjust strontium to the prefer timer.

The only way to remove strontium is by holding shift and remove the amount u want.

That does not always work in heavy lag and u have a good possibility to remove all strong.

It will a good solution when u want to remove stront from pos to have the ability to split strontium inside the pos stront bay and remove the exact amount of strontium that u want .

Another pain for a pos manager is that when u have pos under attack the shield status does not update on the manage tab of the pos,the exact same thing happens when u rep a tower.

The only way to see that is:
1. Relog
2.Warp out from grid and warp back to the pos.

So it will be a good idea that the pos manage tab updates the shiled status of the pos to have a clear idea of what is the status.

Excuse my bad English.

I am waiting for your thoughts.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#73 - 2013-04-02 15:48:03 UTC
Let the players decide. Make it configurable whether or not you trust your directors to clean out your personal hangar array.

Corps can set their own policies, players can follow it or not to their own detriment.

Everyone wins.

(Well, except the UI programmers who hate adding configurable settings to things, but thbptptpt!)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Dring Dingle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2013-04-02 15:48:22 UTC
YAAAAAYYYYY.....

however... Is a CEO / director limited to a m3 amount?

I ran my own pos in a wh for a while, if I were to do it agen would I be limited to X amount ? So I'd be the only one using the whole thing and have a fraction of the space for the same CPU / power grid use? Or can that be scaled on how many members are using the hanger....

Alternatively perhaps the space could be set / modified by directors on a member by member basis.
I think directors should have the ability to take from the members hangers aswell. Especially if someone goes AWOL and you are left with a module that's half full that you can't get access to. Least then you could take their stuff to a NPC station for when they return.....

My 2 cents

:)

Dringy.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#75 - 2013-04-02 15:48:38 UTC
Dibblerette wrote:
EDIT: Nevermind, mixed up CSAA with CSMA. Carry on.

won't change a thing, currently, it's easy to have super / titans in low, holding toon and log it out, pretty hard to know where it is stored if the alliance / corp has several large.

now, you will know where it probably is , cause even if the pilot / holding toon is logged, well the CSMA is still there(doesn't mean the super is inside but..)!
Darth Sith
Genbuku.
Psycho Unicorn Squad
#76 - 2013-04-02 15:49:18 UTC
Think I just wet myself ..


Awesome updates - the removing proximity to pos objects requirement alone was worth reading the 80% disclaimer / 20% content :)
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-04-02 15:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Camios
xttz wrote:

e) Standings-based Forcefield Access
Yep I went there.




I'ìm against this. Forcefield Passwords are good.
If I steal your password I can bump your (super)capitals out of the forcefield and make them go boom. Emergent gameplay, nice things.
Huiron
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-04-02 15:50:50 UTC
First of all, thanks for working on pos's. They really needed the work.

I like the idea of personel hangars, but the notes only mention this for items.
Is there any chance we could get the same for Ship maintenance arrays?
That would be really nice for us wormhole people.

Galen Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
#79 - 2013-04-02 15:50:51 UTC
Deornoth Drake wrote:
First: I like!

And I hope that you don't run into a road block!

Now on to some feedback:
Private Hangars
Quote:
No limit on the number of characters that can use the structure, but storage is limited per character. The exact per-character volume is undecided but we are currently considering a range from 10,000m3 to 40,000m3.


That sounds a bit strange to me. Consider a small corp with 10 pilots, they would end up using 400k m3 of 1'400k m3 (if the volume of the private hangar module corresponds to the corporate hangar module). Hence, a relative number would make more sense to me. Or on the other side, consider a really big corp with 150+ pilots, they would be able to use more that the 1'400k m3. As said it depends on how the total available volume, if there is any at all. And don't forget to link the private hangars in case a POS has two modules. Maybe provide access to the hangars and fuel bays via the POS and increase the size via the modules and let the drones take care of distributing the stuff (e.g. gun ammo).

Maybe each corp member gets [total volume]/[number of corp members] for himself. If that's not enough, restrict access by "rank" in the corp or some other means, or allow for multiple sizes of storage array, or allow the corp to buy extensions that increase the size.

http://eveboard.com/ub/1939472205-31.png
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#80 - 2013-04-02 15:52:51 UTC
I challenge ANY pod to find a devblog with a longer preamble disclaimer than THIS:

CCP wrote:
Please be aware that when we say something is planned at this stage in the process there is absolutely no guarantee that each individual item will be delivered as part of Odyssey. The starbase code is quite old and complicated; so it is quite possible we will hit road blocks when addressing some of these features, road blocks that in some cases could render one or more of them undeliverable. Since we at CCP have made mistakes with expectations management surrounding this feature in the past we want to be very clear. This is our educated estimate of what we think we can deliver based on this time period, but we cannot rule out roadblocks arising including but not limited to: unforeseen technical hurdles blocking a feature, the starbase code gaining self-awareness, seizing the building’s climate control system and roasting us all alive, and/or emergency response tasks taking developer time from feature work. Development within CCP is very fast paced, problems come up, schedules and priorities sometimes change; this is an unavoidable reality of game development. We will be working very hard to deliver these changes to you all in the Odyssey expansion, and we will keep you all up to date on our progress.


LOL! Hilarious! Longerst. Devblog disclaimer. Ever.

No... but the changes look good... looking forward to it!

Signatures should be used responsibly...