These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Odyssey summer expansion: Starbase iterations

First post First post
Author
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#441 - 2013-04-05 19:00:13 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:

You already face the potential of these issues with currently existing mods to one extent or another.


Not mine. Converting entries into items in space is a bit different than moving a DB entry to a different state.

Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#442 - 2013-04-05 19:06:46 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:

You already face the potential of these issues with currently existing mods to one extent or another.


Not mine. Converting entries into items in space is a bit different than moving a DB entry to a different state.

I was referring to loss of items due to destruction and too many drops causing lag, etc.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#443 - 2013-04-05 19:23:50 UTC
Maybe creating something rather simple.

If destroyed or unanchored. Spawn one wreck. That you salvage to get access to all the loot. The salvage time could be set long so server have time to roll. ?? It can not be the first 50, as suggested it needs to be random on all items to keep things fair?!



Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#444 - 2013-04-05 19:33:19 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Maybe creating something rather simple.

If destroyed or unanchored. Spawn one wreck. That you salvage to get access to all the loot. The salvage time could be set long so server have time to roll. ?? It can not be the first 50, as suggested it needs to be random on all items to keep things fair?!

Standard item drop chance, same as any wreck, of course, it'd just have to be a new type of named wreck for them to drop into.
Bellasarius Baxter
Zilog Enterprises
#445 - 2013-04-05 22:20:27 UTC
The Pilot hangar stuff sounds good, however I would prefer to have all structures which currently have storage got a Pilot hanger, so that you can use manufacturing arrays, labs, and storage facilities to have your own stuff.
Then make it possible to use the pilot hangar as input/output, and you would make a lot of indy CEOs very happy.
When using the pilot hangar as input, the payment of rental fees should be taken from the personal wallet, rather than a corp wallet.

That implementation would also enable renting slots at a POS owned by a different corporation than your own.

Comments, enhancements, and thoughts on the above is welcome, as always.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#446 - 2013-04-05 22:28:33 UTC
Bellasarius Baxter wrote:
The Pilot hangar stuff sounds good, however I would prefer to have all structures which currently have storage got a Pilot hanger, so that you can use manufacturing arrays, labs, and storage facilities to have your own stuff.
Then make it possible to use the pilot hangar as input/output, and you would make a lot of indy CEOs very happy.
When using the pilot hangar as input, the payment of rental fees should be taken from the personal wallet, rather than a corp wallet.

That implementation would also enable renting slots at a POS owned by a different corporation than your own.

Comments, enhancements, and thoughts on the above is welcome, as always.

I love ideas like this, cause atm, I have no reason to have an HS pos, and stuff like this would give me a reason to set one up :P
Katsuo Nuruodo
Suddenly Dreadnoughts
#447 - 2013-04-06 02:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Katsuo Nuruodo
Pelea Ming wrote:
You already face the potential of these issues with currently existing mods to one extent or another.


I'd disagree. No POS modules currently allow storage of an unlimited amount of m3. POCOs, which do allow this, do not drop anything when destroyed.

Just imagine if a corp with high member turnover maintains a POS with a PHA for 5 years.

Or, for that matter, imagine if a corp collectively created 3 new chars every day(could be done with trial accounts, or just extra alt slots), and used each new alt to fill a bay in the PHA with shuttles(this would only cost about 880mil for the entire year). You'd fit 80 shuttles into each bay if they're 40k m3 bays. After a year of doing this, if someone blew up the PHA, you'd suddenly have up to 87,600 shuttles spawned in space.

For that matter, fill the bays with frozen corpses. Each bay can hold 20,000 of them.

Hmm, would this crash the server? Or just cause an insane amount of lag?
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#448 - 2013-04-06 02:55:14 UTC
A nice gift for wormhole dwellers, but I saw nothing addressing most of the common concerns on the forums. No mention of a modular pos, for sure. Anchoring and unanchoring a pos will remain a nightmare. Players cannot control their own pos independent of corp, etc. You can constantly tweak really outdated code or you can start fresh with something that makes sense for everyone. I recommend the later.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#449 - 2013-04-06 04:04:05 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
A nice gift for wormhole dwellers, but I saw nothing addressing most of the common concerns on the forums. No mention of a modular pos, for sure. Anchoring and unanchoring a pos will remain a nightmare. Players cannot control their own pos independent of corp, etc. You can constantly tweak really outdated code or you can start fresh with something that makes sense for everyone. I recommend the later.


Or, you can have a small team work on tweaking really outdated code to solve some common headaches while another team works on the much larger problem of an all-new design and code base.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#450 - 2013-04-06 05:10:45 UTC
make sure to code the new POS code to be able to replicate the old pos behaviors. all of them.

because it took way too long for you to finally do what everyone told you to do with the UInventory.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#451 - 2013-04-06 16:09:02 UTC
Katsuo Nuruodo wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
You already face the potential of these issues with currently existing mods to one extent or another.


I'd disagree. No POS modules currently allow storage of an unlimited amount of m3. POCOs, which do allow this, do not drop anything when destroyed.

Just imagine if a corp with high member turnover maintains a POS with a PHA for 5 years.

Or, for that matter, imagine if a corp collectively created 3 new chars every day(could be done with trial accounts, or just extra alt slots), and used each new alt to fill a bay in the PHA with shuttles(this would only cost about 880mil for the entire year). You'd fit 80 shuttles into each bay if they're 40k m3 bays. After a year of doing this, if someone blew up the PHA, you'd suddenly have up to 87,600 shuttles spawned in space.

For that matter, fill the bays with frozen corpses. Each bay can hold 20,000 of them.

Hmm, would this crash the server? Or just cause an insane amount of lag?

And this is why I was saying about creating a new type of wreck for this mod for the dropped items to spawn within.
Verlaine Glariant
The Kudur Cult
#452 - 2013-04-06 18:55:40 UTC
CCP, please take a look at Permission system for starbases.

And put modular POS system already.

www.amphysvena.org

Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#453 - 2013-04-06 20:42:59 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
A nice gift for wormhole dwellers, but I saw nothing addressing most of the common concerns on the forums. No mention of a modular pos, for sure. Anchoring and unanchoring a pos will remain a nightmare. Players cannot control their own pos independent of corp, etc. You can constantly tweak really outdated code or you can start fresh with something that makes sense for everyone. I recommend the later.



There has to be a intermediary step. While CCP could revamp the POS code, it will take them some time.

So if a POS code revamp takes a year.. should they just completely stall out on providing anything while they revamp it?

Is it optimal, nope. Is it Modular, nope.

Does it Help.. good lord yes it does.

Yea I know there is no alliance POS's, abilities to launch personal POS's, set standards or share Manufacturing arrays among the alliances. Those are headaches but people have managed (though they really do need to address the whole manufacturing/job cancelling issue).

The new hanger is a good idea, the Capital array is a good idea. Will it fix the current code.. no.

Will it help people in the interim While they fix the current code.... I believe so. Its not a solution, its emergency aid.


But Lord they need to fix the whole "cancel manufacturing job" issue that's present. BIIIIG problem.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#454 - 2013-04-06 22:40:10 UTC
Tennessee Jack wrote:
So if a POS code revamp takes a year.. should they just completely stall out on providing anything while they revamp it?

Is it optimal, nope. Is it Modular, nope.

Does it Help.. good lord yes it does.

I didn't noticed. I just thought an idea, that would really help, out of my head. What they propose is going to be a no-help-for-anyone.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#455 - 2013-04-06 22:44:36 UTC
So the excuse I keep hearing is there isn't enough time to implement changes before the expansion goes live. This is incredibly annoying. What happened to "planning ahead". Clearly this is a very large and important issue and instead of putting a band aid on it, perhaps fixing it at the source is a smarter idea.

How long will we have to wait before we finally get something that works? Plenty of people have given plenty of suggestions and all we get is "not enough time". Perhaps you should get a team together and dedicated them towards the POS Revamp. Theres an idea.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#456 - 2013-04-06 23:32:37 UTC
Sassums wrote:
So the excuse I keep hearing is there isn't enough time to implement changes before the expansion goes live. This is incredibly annoying. What happened to "planning ahead". Clearly this is a very large and important issue and instead of putting a band aid on it, perhaps fixing it at the source is a smarter idea.

How long will we have to wait before we finally get something that works? Plenty of people have given plenty of suggestions and all we get is "not enough time". Perhaps you should get a team together and dedicated them towards the POS Revamp. Theres an idea.

Because that's not exactly what they are doing. Roll

The plan to completely rework the code is in motion, but it's a huge task because it affects so many different aspects of EvE. So we have a smaller group working on a short term fix, which forms a handy test bed for the larger changes to come.

The current system already works.
The update will make the current system work better.
The full redo is being planned out, so that it ends up better than what we have.

What happened to "understanding the situation before offering your opinion"? Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#457 - 2013-04-06 23:46:55 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The current system already works.

That's the problem.

Quote:
The update will make the current system work better.

No, the update will not change it even a little.

Quote:
The full redo is being planned out, so that it ends up better than what we have.

We're all waiting for it.

Quote:
What happened to "understanding the situation before offering your opinion"? Smile

It seems, it was you, who didn't understood the problem.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#458 - 2013-04-07 00:01:44 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The current system already works.

That's the problem.

Quote:
The update will make the current system work better.

No, the update will not change it even a little.


So...you didn't read the DevBlog at all, did you? Repackaging items in the POS. Oh look at that, something that is very helpful, at least to those of us in the wormhole, but also to others to a lesser extent. Your argument has already been invalidated just by one of the many changes they are doing.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#459 - 2013-04-07 00:02:40 UTC
If you don't think the changes coming will help out a large number of EvE players, perhaps you should actually read this thread.

If you feel that the current system working while waiting for a complete rework is "the problem" I don't know what to tell you. LolLolLol

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#460 - 2013-04-07 01:41:09 UTC
Lolmer wrote:
So...you didn't read the DevBlog at all, did you? Repackaging items in the POS. Oh look at that, something that is very helpful, at least to those of us in the wormhole, but also to others to a lesser extent. Your argument has already been invalidated just by one of the many changes they are doing.

That's the ONLY change, that is actually making the life in a POS better. People already pointed to multiple issues that were LEFT OUT of the scope of the blog, including ACTUAL BUGS, rather than missing features.
Pointing to a single feature and proclaiming that it's worth all the bugs unfixed is just stupid.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison