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Dev blog: Odyssey summer expansion: Starbase iterations

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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#241 - 2013-04-02 23:31:58 UTC
Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but 200+ posts? pfft... not gonna read through all that lol.

Odyssey is promising a revamp of the scanning system so for all I know this suggestion is already planned, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway since It's an important stepping stone on the way to describing my suggestion/request for the POS system.

Setting up probes in space takes too long. I want to be able to set them up once, click a button that says "save current configuration" and then be able to select that configuration from a menu on the scanner window in the future. Perhaps you could even add in a feature like having the number of configs you can save be dependent on your astrometrics skill level.

Now for the POS system. I want to be able to do the same thing with a POS and its modules. I want to be able to set them up once, save my configuration and then next time I set up the same type of control tower I want to be able to have all the modules sitting packaged in the CHA inside the shield and just select my configuration from a menu on the control tower window. Ideally it would even anchor and online them all one at a time in a user-defined order and then tell me if anything was missing like the current fitting system does.

General feedback to the Dev blog: I don't live in wormholes any more because of irritating POS mechanics, but if I did I would be celebrating by going out on a roam and blowing up lots of isk \o/. These changes are fantastic! I now have some real motivation to move back to w-space and POS life :)

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#242 - 2013-04-02 23:37:48 UTC
EVE isn't supposed to look like a cold, harsh universe, it is supposed to be a cold, harsh universe. One of the core features of EVE is the capability to act in a trustworthy manner where there is the option to be selfish and greedy. As such, I feel the inability for corp directors and security roles to take things from corp members' private hangars is a mistake.

Otherwise, these changes are awesome! IMHO the ideal volume for a personal hangar is about 15k, about equivalent to three GSCs. Stuff larger than that is likely to be ores from mining operations, ship subsystems, or accumulated module loot. There should be other options for bulky/bulk goods, such as CHAs with a better role system.

I am very glad to her that refineries are "on the radar", and I look forward to seeing whether that work will involve converting all refineries (NPC and POS alike) into activity lines.

In the meantime, corp directors around New Eden will be waiting with bated breath for news about a revamp of the corp role system.
John Butterhill
Butterhill Industries
#243 - 2013-04-02 23:52:07 UTC
10k - 40k is not much space for a couple hauler spawns, an afternoon of mining, sorting through PI materials, ship modules, and ammo.

Increasing the limit to 100k - 400k would be a more realistic number.

Having a limit of 1.4M that everyone shares would be a better alternative. All the users of the hangar would then share the total volume. An attribute of the PHA would be the total in-use volume. As items are added or removed from that PHA the value is updated. If more space is needed then an additional PHA would be anchored. The five miners that needed lots of space could share one PHA and fifty PVE players with just ship modules and ammo can share another PHA.

Please don't give the directors access to take from the PHA. If I knew I was going to be gone I should have moved my stuff to a CHA or a station. If you are going to let directors steal you should at least give us logs so we can see who did it.
Agila Tradatus
L'ove
#244 - 2013-04-02 23:52:51 UTC
So I read the blog, twice because I couldn't belive that this outdated POS that I call a POS is becoming useable! No more parking certain ships at just the right spot so I can move fuel?! And finally subsystem management in space?! ZOMG...I don't think I can contain myself...

/me humps CCP Fozzie's leg
Infinion
Awesome Corp
#245 - 2013-04-02 23:53:06 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:


Stegas Tyrano wrote:
Will the tiny drones that move stuff around be animated? They better be!

They'll only be animated inside the server ;)



Just out of curiosity, if you used an existing drone model and only animated it in such a way that it
1) moves between two points
2) passes through all objects
and 3) appears/disappears within a certain distance from a structure

which process would be too time-consuming to include with the feature?
Sol Mortis
An Heroes
#246 - 2013-04-02 23:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sol Mortis
The most boring list of changes that ever might possibly maybe perhaps have a chance of probably being likely to happen.

boooorrrrriiiinnnngggg.
mkint
#247 - 2013-04-03 00:10:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
This is great and I love to see this aspect get some love - I do however hope everything will be re-invented as the current system won't easily be transformed...

I do wish you think more about the game mechanics for those personal hangars - People always go on 14 day vacations or have computers break down for a week when a corp is about to relocate a tower... So I suspect lots of people will lose assets to repacking the personal hangar arrays.

I know you don't want to make it easy to steal/scam assets from members, but how about those items dropping out in a locked container when repacking an array so corps can save personal assets and save them for their owner. It must be possible to create containers only accessible by 1 character? Have them drop in space with a 72hour decay timer and the option to shoot them if you want to destroy them. You can scoop the container but only the real owner can open the container. Maybe give him the option to open access for others somehow but personal assets in towers can be a pain when you suddenly have to relocate...

Pinky


If people are not willing to take the risk that their corp will move without them, they can always store certain items in the CHAs instead. Having tradeoffs and decisions to make between what to store in each of the two forms of storage is one of our goals.


I'm seeing both sides... on the one hand, there has to be a tradeoff. On the other, a 100% loss sounds pretty sucky. What about a 24 hour stasis for a ceo/director to pull it out? Or a 50% chance to drop when it's unanchored? Some compromise to reduce the suckage.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#248 - 2013-04-03 00:14:37 UTC
The idea behind the personal storage array is promising but this implementaion leaves a lot to be desired. 40,000 m^3 is basicly an Iteron5 which is tiny in the grand scheme of things. The big disappointment is that the wealth which needs protected from thieves is in ships, not in modules. This change will protect some ammo and spare e-war mods from a thief while leaving the capital ships, strategic cruisers, faction ships and such within their reach. Please consider expanding the personal storage area to be huge like in an npc station and allowing fit ships to be drug into the hanger in a similar manner to how they can be pulled into the current corporate hanger. This simple change would make this the enhancement which we need to protect our corp members assets and increase our corporate membership.

The ability to access structures from a greater distance, repackage modules and fit subsystems are welcome changes. The personal storage structure however is a disappointment and will not in my opinion serve its intended purpose of protecting member assets. It is a bit like guarding the 'have a penny, take a penny' cup while leaving the cash register untended.
Bobby Oftheradio
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#249 - 2013-04-03 00:21:18 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
[quote]Lots of questions about roles

The role system is responsible for a lot of the limitations of the current behaviour. To solve a lot of those issues, we're going to have to dedicate a good amount of time to reworking that system first. There simply isn't the scope for doing that in this release. This is the sort of thing we'll need to dedicate a team to for a full release cycle. (omg dat roles UI!)

With what is planed with Dust514 characters isn't a complete rework of corp roles going to be necessary sooner rather then later?
Salaphiel
L'ove
#250 - 2013-04-03 00:28:13 UTC
Another annoyance that I hope is an easy fix that I'd love to see come to POSes is that bug that makes a '0' crystal stay in a gun and makes the POS impossible to unanchor. It has happened to me EVERY time i've had to unanchor a POS.

No one plans to fail, some fail to plan.

Stigman Zuwadza
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#251 - 2013-04-03 00:45:34 UTC
Some handy changes I'm sure, however not a single mention of Roles.

These changes may help those that currently use a POS but it does nothing to encourage greater collaboration, which seems a shame.

Quote:
...we have already launched an offensive against the biggest flaws of the current system


Evidently not, so, will you be tackling Roles in the December expansion?

Sad

It's broken and it's been broken for a long time and it'll be broken for some time to come.

Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2013-04-03 00:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
Nullbears are going to be very happy once again, another expansion full of bells and whistles for them. What are you going to do for the carebears of high sec? Anything? Hopefully not another nerf in the name of 'bwaaaaaaaa, carebears need to be nerfed just because'.
Warcalibre
NovaTech Holdings
#253 - 2013-04-03 01:40:37 UTC
Some nice changes, but there is one glaring omission: POS roles! Roles are incredibly confusing right now, and they are the one thing that must work well for efficient operation. I hope that roles makes it into a revised list of most important changes. Thank you.
Trion Roles
Sons of Bistot
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#254 - 2013-04-03 01:43:52 UTC
1. Put out of fuel POSs on a timer so that they de-anchor after 30 days without fuel and can be scooped for limited time as well as mods. EVE space is full of abandoned POSs that could be put to use. If not scooped soon enough, they pop. 30 days seems long to me--10 might be more realistic. Can't fuel your POS because of vacation or holiday? That's what corpies are for.

2. For the PHA, if you de-anchor with stuff still inside, then it should act like if it were popped--some stuff drops, some doesn't. Comes out in a can with owner's name. A balance between risk and reward for thieves and loyal corpies alike.

3. Space limit for PHA is fine. CHA holds the bulky stuff. Bank vaults are smaller than mini-warehouses. Banks are more secure, too. PHA should have finite total limit just like CHA, and other POS arrays.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#255 - 2013-04-03 02:20:36 UTC
Kerdrak wrote:
The change on CSMA is not gonna be a big deal. Everyone prefers to have a "sitter" character to hold the supercapital since is easier, safer and faster.

Not everyone has a Titan. This move is of great benefit to anyone with a few dreadnoughts, since a CSMA can hold a few of them while a SMA can only hold 1 plus some sub caps.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#256 - 2013-04-03 02:26:18 UTC
I think I wet myself.
Thanks CCP.

The only thing I can see there that could be an issue is CEO/directors not being able to remove items from personal storage.
I think they should be able to so that they can take down a POS without needing to destroy everyones stuff.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#257 - 2013-04-03 02:59:12 UTC
As two simple requests:

Let each POS have it's own individual roles mechanism. Completely remove the corporate roles on the option. That way, as a POS is setup, it becomes a players entity, not a corporate, and can be governed by the player. Allow them to specifically grant rights to other entities (players, Corporations or Alliances) through a separate UI system altogether.

Secondly, when taking down the POS, shunt the items into a can or something similar to a customs office, etc. The mechanics for this (customs offices) are in place already. Unless, of course, your trying to actively prevent players from dropping/raising POS's at will, than this is a futile request. Otherwise, it seems more logical.

Otherwise, I'm interested in the upcoming changes.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#258 - 2013-04-03 02:59:45 UTC
hello!!!

can we still get ring mining going with this addon?
Alystin Wyndyl
Night's Shadows
#259 - 2013-04-03 03:03:17 UTC
Lots of good stuff here Fozzie!

We need roles for specific POS modules and slots.

We need an intermediate role between query and take that allows users of factory slots to use the slots, but ONLY cancel their OWN jobs, no one else. Not quite a factory Manager, but a Factory Worker role.

Same sort of intermediate role for laboratories.

Personal Hangars should NOT allow CEO/Directors to take from them (I know it's MY POS, but still, it's personal space) but by all means give them the ability to Query them, as we do in highsec station offices today.

A possible solution to the moving problem is to change it so that if you offline the module and unanchor it, the contents get dumps into cans with the owner's names on them. Sure, a director or CEO could then steal all the stuff, but they have to unanchor it all to do it. (I'm not sure this is a solution we want, just offering it up as an idea)

Give the ability to get materials from personal hangars and return them to them for research and manufacturing arrays. Huge win here. Do this with CHAs too.

I have no problem with personal hangars being 40k m3, as long as you give us the Personal SMAs too, soon. (As in don't wait for December to release those, maybe in the Odyssey 1.1 release.

Love the access from anywhere. Helps for using freighters in a POS shield.

Tennessee Jack
Doomheim
#260 - 2013-04-03 03:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tennessee Jack
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Quote:
Lots of questions about roles

The role system is responsible for a lot of the limitations of the current behaviour. To solve a lot of those issues, we're going to have to dedicate a good amount of time to reworking that system first. There simply isn't the scope for doing that in this release. This is the sort of thing we'll need to dedicate a team to for a full release cycle. (omg dat roles UI!)


How about just adding that you have to be a director to cancel someone elses job?


Good god at least find a way to shoehorn patch this in somehow immediately.

After reading more into this, the new hanger has no size to it. It is a loot piñata. I'm actually fine with that. It'll be the individuals job to get their crap out.

So interface, check
New hanger, check
Can't cancel others jobs... Must go in.
Private sma, great if it can make it in.