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The AFK cloaky problem.
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Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-04-02 15:25:20 UTC
look at this way op....


your alliance in the past to claim some space sent in cloakies.

They never killed a single ship. Thye just bm'd like fiends to get good landing spots and to get intel. You know system x has 4 pos', 3 amarr 1 caldari. The caldari is a super parking pos....all that happy horse crap. And when done said, aww hell lets see who is scared of the big bad buzzard with no cyno on it for lolz.

you alliance then used this information to hit those systems and take them much easier than if your fearless leader said lets hit system X jsut out of the blue. Avoided a whole discussion that could have gone like this:

"Whats there boss?"
Hell if I know, we are jsut gonna hot drop 800 people with no plan, no intel, and see what happens. I mean what are the chances there won't be least 1 pos to shoot up, right?
"oookay, this will turn out well...."

Welcome to cloaking....its a dual edge sword. The same tool that got you alot of your systems is the same tool others can and will use against you.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#42 - 2013-04-02 15:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
If you want to know here are the measures I would like to see to counter the afk cloaky game play.

1- Shut down of the client after 1 hour of inactivity

2- Find a way to avoid the always infinite cloaking
Perharps with a special fuel or perharps by a capacitor drain. It is a complex subject with many options.

3- Remove player list in the local like in Wormhole.

4- Let the cloaky ship visible on directional scan
With this way you will be able to know that there is a cloak ship not far and what ship it is. you even could to decloak it with a 5° scan.

So when you cloak you are removed from overview and from the system scanner but not the directional scan. Perharps the ship type of the cloaked ship could be seen as unkown...

And perharps the directional scan would have to be revamp to be more ergonomic....

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#43 - 2013-04-02 15:28:26 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
look at this way op....


your alliance in the past to claim some space sent in cloakies.

They never killed a single ship. Thye just bm'd like fiends to get good landing spots and to get intel. You know system x has 4 pos', 3 amarr 1 caldari. The caldari is a super parking pos....all that happy horse crap. And when done said, aww hell lets see who is scared of the big bad buzzard with no cyno on it for lolz.

you alliance then used this information to hit those systems and take them much easier than if your fearless leader said lets hit system X jsut out of the blue. Avoided a whole discussion that could have gone like this:

"Whats there boss?"
Hell if I know, we are jsut gonna hot drop 800 people with no plan, no intel, and see what happens. I mean what are the chances there won't be least 1 pos to shoot up, right?
"oookay, this will turn out well...."

Welcome to cloaking....its a dual edge sword. The same tool that got you alot of your systems is the same tool others can and will use against you.


I am not against cloaky intel. To do cloaky intel the cloaky pilot must be active.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#44 - 2013-04-02 15:36:25 UTC
This thread is pointless. It's just going over the same tired, old and know arguments again. It will die and change nothing.

An inactivity timer will not work.

Fuel is a nerf to cloaking. But cloaking is balanced and doesn't need a nerf.

Yes you could remove names from local, but there is far more involved than that. CCP have wanted to change local for years, they cannot see a way to do this.

Having cloaked ships show on the scanner, breaks the covert intel gathering aspect of the Covert Ops. It also is pointless against those AFK, but gives you more intel on top of the already powerful local intel tool.

The better solution would be to deal with it, just how almost everyone else does already.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#45 - 2013-04-02 15:43:40 UTC
Mag's wrote:
This thread is pointless. It's just going over the same tired, old and know arguments again. It will die and change nothing.

An inactivity timer will not work.

Fuel is a nerf to cloaking. But cloaking is balanced and doesn't need a nerf.

Yes you could remove names from local, but there is far more involved than that. CCP have wanted to change local for years, they cannot see a way to do this.

Having cloaked ships show on the scanner, breaks the covert intel gathering aspect of the Covert Ops. It also is pointless against those AFK, but gives you more intel on top of the already powerful local intel tool.

The better solution would be to deal with it, just how almost everyone else does already.


Your first answer is pointless. I know that there will have lot of ways to avoid to be log off but it should be done though because most of these ways are against the CLUF.

Nerfing a bit cloaky with fuel would not change their actual power

Perharps you forgot that I told do all these things at same time.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-04-02 15:45:59 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
I don't want null sec to be safe. It is already safer than Highsec.
I want to be sure that when I try to catch someone he is playing Eve too.
The problem is that there is no way to know if a cloaky ship is afk or not.
I have no problem with a cloaky ship hunting miners or raters. I have a problem with a cloaky ship that is simply in the system to create an unreal threat.
There is no fun in this style of gaming.
Yes I have the option of not hunting cloaky ship, but in this case we have also the option not playing Eve. So avoid this type of comment. The goal is to change the game to make it better.
(Boldtalics mine.)

You may not be able to know, but you can still make a fairly accurate guess. It's been mentioned before in this very thread - go to battleclinic or eve-kill and look up Insert Cloaky Character Here's name, look at when his killmails are in time-of-day terms, then follow links through to his corp and look at when their killmails are. Hot drops leave a LOT of killmails.

If you're shuddering in fear of someone whose kill record is focused more than an hour or two outside the current time of day, odds are you're just being a coward.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#47 - 2013-04-02 15:48:22 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Mag's wrote:
This thread is pointless. It's just going over the same tired, old and know arguments again. It will die and change nothing.

An inactivity timer will not work.

Fuel is a nerf to cloaking. But cloaking is balanced and doesn't need a nerf.

Yes you could remove names from local, but there is far more involved than that. CCP have wanted to change local for years, they cannot see a way to do this.

Having cloaked ships show on the scanner, breaks the covert intel gathering aspect of the Covert Ops. It also is pointless against those AFK, but gives you more intel on top of the already powerful local intel tool.

The better solution would be to deal with it, just how almost everyone else does already.


Your first answer is pointless. I know that there will have lot of ways to avoid to be log off but it should be done though because most of these ways are against the CLUF.

Nerfing a bit cloaky with fuel would not change their actual power

Perharps you forgot that I told do all these things at same time.

To post ideas, you need to have some knowledge of game mechanics and how things you suggest would change them. I suggest you get some knowledge, you are sadly lacking in that department.

The inactivity timer will not work, with a simple NON EULA breaking piece of software. One designed to stop screen savers activating.

Fuel, no matter how you word it, is a nerf to cloaks. If your ship runs out whilst out on Intel duties, boom.

Do you honestly think you're the first one to think and post these ideas? Guess what, you're not.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
El Geo
Warcrows
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#48 - 2013-04-02 22:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
I dont believe theres a problem with players being afk while cloaked as I have operated in someone elses SOV before using a cloaky blap pest and honestly once you kill a few things the probes come out and you have to stay cloaked for a bit, I usually go afk and make a cup of tea while waiting it out.

I would however like some sort of blops sub hunting module/technique, this increases the versatility of the blops while still maintaining a fairly intensive skill train, if however this was ever incorporated into the game I would feel blops ships should be able to fit covert cloaks. (as well as some proper thought in the matter, maybe even making it something a tech 3 battleship fitted with a certain subsystem could do)

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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#49 - 2013-04-02 22:46:26 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
You're in the wrong bit of space, go to highsec, there's nothing to fear from cloakers there.


Here again someone who post without reading.
I don't fear cloaky ships, I am just bored to wait them coming for the fight.


*cough*b u l l * s h I t *

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Tweaks Huren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2013-04-03 01:23:42 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
I am aware of all tese thread. But nothing have change. So I will continue to post.
No matter how, the AFK cloaky problem must be fixed.
If CCP don't want to ear it. We must continue to tell it.

The problem is the ones thinking there is a problem.

The solution to your "problem" is very simple: Never assume anyone is afk and treat all "hostiles" as potential threats or live with the consequences.

Truth is, even if the person is cloaked and afk, what tells you it's not just someone patiently waiting in front of his screen for an opportunity to strike? If people can stare at their screen for hours while they mine asteroids, I'm sure some don't mind staring at it waiting for someone to think you're afk...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#51 - 2013-04-03 02:05:24 UTC
Quote:
I am aware of all tese thread. But nothing have change. So I will continue to post.
No matter how, the AFK cloaky problem must be fixed.
If CCP don't want to ear it. We must continue to tell it.


so ur plan is to spam afk cloaky threads over and over again?...honestly, i think we'd struggle to notice them amongst the other daily threads.

afk cloaking is fine. u have no right to know whether he is at his keyboard or not. hell i'd argue u shouldnt have the right to know that hes in system without doing a bit of reconnaissance work, but meh.

knowing precisely whos in system and whether they are active or not takes away from the inherent risk that really should be part of null sec. if u dnt like uncertainty, u are definitely in the wrong area of space. u should ask urself if ur even playing the right game.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Akuyaku
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-04-03 02:56:41 UTC
Mag's wrote:

Having cloaked ships show on the scanner, breaks the covert intel gathering aspect of the Covert Ops. It also is pointless against those AFK, but gives you more intel on top of the already powerful local intel tool.

It also totaly destroys wormholes. That's the thing these carebears can't get through their heads. Almost all of their "fixes" break wormholes.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#53 - 2013-04-03 04:17:01 UTC
Just remove local from 0.4 and below and AFK cloakers won't bother anyone anymore.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#54 - 2013-04-03 04:56:51 UTC
Tweaks Huren wrote:
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
I am aware of all tese thread. But nothing have change. So I will continue to post.
No matter how, the AFK cloaky problem must be fixed.
If CCP don't want to ear it. We must continue to tell it.

The problem is the ones thinking there is a problem.

The solution to your "problem" is very simple: Never assume anyone is afk and treat all "hostiles" as potential threats or live with the consequences.

Truth is, even if the person is cloaked and afk, what tells you it's not just someone patiently waiting in front of his screen for an opportunity to strike? If people can stare at their screen for hours while they mine asteroids, I'm sure some don't mind staring at it waiting for someone to think you're afk...



Again someone who do not understand.
I always see a cloak ship in a system as a potential threat. In fact I hope it is a potential threat. But if he is not here all my efforts to catch him are as useless thant my effots to avoid him.
I just want to play the game with players who are actually playing.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#55 - 2013-04-03 05:01:14 UTC
El Geo wrote:
I dont believe theres a problem with players being afk while cloaked as I have operated in someone elses SOV before using a cloaky blap pest and honestly once you kill a few things the probes come out and you have to stay cloaked for a bit, I usually go afk and make a cup of tea while waiting it out.

I would however like some sort of blops sub hunting module/technique, this increases the versatility of the blops while still maintaining a fairly intensive skill train, if however this was ever incorporated into the game I would feel blops ships should be able to fit covert cloaks. (as well as some proper thought in the matter, maybe even making it something a tech 3 battleship fitted with a certain subsystem could do)


Here is an excellent point of view. If the afk cloaky should change this type of game play should have a way to be save.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2013-04-03 05:34:19 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
If you want to know here are the measures I would like to see to counter the afk cloaky game play.

1- Shut down of the client after 1 hour of inactivity

2- Find a way to avoid the always infinite cloaking
Perharps with a special fuel or perharps by a capacitor drain. It is a complex subject with many options.

3- Remove player list in the local like in Wormhole.

4- Let the cloaky ship visible on directional scan
With this way you will be able to know that there is a cloak ship not far and what ship it is. you even could to decloak it with a 5° scan.

So when you cloak you are removed from overview and from the system scanner but not the directional scan. Perharps the ship type of the cloaked ship could be seen as unkown...

And perharps the directional scan would have to be revamp to be more ergonomic....


FFS...

These have all been proposed before...some aren't half bad (i.e. changing local), but do we really need yet another thread to re-hash these ideas?

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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#57 - 2013-04-03 07:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
I don't want null sec to be safe. It is already safer than Highsec.
I want to be sure that when I try to catch someone he is playing Eve too.
The problem is that there is no way to know if a cloaky ship is afk or not.
I have no problem with a cloaky ship hunting miners or raters. I have a problem with a cloaky ship that is simply in the system to create an unreal threat.
There is no fun in this style of gaming.
Yes I have the option of not hunting cloaky ship, but in this case we have also the option not playing Eve. So avoid this type of comment. The goal is to change the game to make it better.


So then your problem isn't with someone being an "afk cloaker" your problem is with someone who is logged into EVE not doing what you want - not actively moving about, or engaging, or whatever. The same kind of complaint applies to people who are just sitting safely in their pos shield, or people docked in their outpost. I mean I get it, I don't like it when I'm roaming null or wormholes and I can see people just sitting in a tower or station doing nothing, it's disappointing when I'm looking for a fight, but... I don't see an issue.

I can't make them do what I want, and it's stupid to ask CCP to make them do what I want.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#58 - 2013-04-03 13:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Cardano Firesnake wrote:



Again someone who do not understand.
I always see a cloak ship in a system as a potential threat. In fact I hope it is a potential threat. But if he is not here all my efforts to catch him are as useless thant my effots to avoid him.
I just want to play the game with players who are actually playing.


waiting 10 jumps behind ur frontlines for a fight will likely end with u sitting around doing nothing. if u want to play with other ppl actually playing, u could roam into hostile space with a few buddies. u'd soon find players who are actually playing, or they'd find u.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#59 - 2013-04-04 06:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Cardano Firesnake wrote:



Again someone who do not understand.
I always see a cloak ship in a system as a potential threat. In fact I hope it is a potential threat. But if he is not here all my efforts to catch him are as useless thant my effots to avoid him.
I just want to play the game with players who are actually playing.


waiting 10 jumps behind ur frontlines for a fight will likely end with u sitting around doing nothing. if u want to play with other ppl actually playing, u could roam into hostile space with a few buddies. u'd soon find players who are actually playing, or they'd find u.


You are right. I can also do that. I do it also in fact, but can I have the choice of my gaming style?

And it is not the subject. I want to speak about AFK cloakers.

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#60 - 2013-04-04 06:25:03 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


So then your problem isn't with someone being an "afk cloaker" your problem is with someone who is logged into EVE not doing what you want - not actively moving about, or engaging, or whatever. The same kind of complaint applies to people who are just sitting safely in their pos shield, or people docked in their outpost. I mean I get it, I don't like it when I'm roaming null or wormholes and I can see people just sitting in a tower or station doing nothing, it's disappointing when I'm looking for a fight, but... I don't see an issue.

I can't make them do what I want, and it's stupid to ask CCP to make them do what I want.


It is not exactly the same problem when you know where is the oppenent, but you are right, a character should not be log in in a POS or a Station AFK for hours either.

It is not about what I am wanting him to do.
The oppenent may choose to just intel, without fighting.
It oftenly happens that you cannot engage in Eve.
But it is a choice he have to make.
A choice that he will not make if he is AFK.

It is not stupid. You don't force them to do anything except playing the game when they are connected. It is quite logic in fact.
If they don't want or don't have time to play just log off. Why is it so horrible to say that?

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.