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Started playing Eve for the first time last week

Author
Shane Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2013-04-15 18:44:27 UTC
OP, I will not lie i used to be in the same boat the first couple of times i attempted to play EVE. You very well may have already quit with all the flames received for this post but if you have not and are still giving this a try i will tell you the one thing i have realized when i came back to eve. Now also any veterans reading this, i am only a week in this time around, i am still very much a noob and you may think i am utterly wrong. But new players in eve that expect to be able to just jump right into engaging content a week in are not happy, now there is plenty of content just not what most people see in advertisements and such of dozens of ships engaging in fleet battles.. You have to come into this game with the understanding that at the beginining and from what i have even heard in later content...... Less is more at times. When i first played a couple years ago, i rushed my skills to try and be able to get into BS and BC, and i got blown up idk how many times and rage quit. The same with my second time. This time, i began playing and thought my plan through, i am a week or week and a half in and still flying my destroyer but my skill are getting to where i can fly it effectively without having to spam D to warp back to the station to repair after every engagement. This game is not for everyone and i am still not positive if it is for me, but for now i am enjoying it cause i came in with the right mind set of you make this game what YOU want......

Now as far as the corps and no pvp and such. I have been recommended and seen on multiple replies on this post of RvB (Red vs. Blue) which is a corp that basically dedicates itself to learning pvp properly in eve including for new players. now i do not know if they have a certain requirement as i have not joined or approached them at east as of right now. I have also heard good things about Eve Univ Corps.

This game does take getting used to, but if you take the right steps and do not rush it can be a fun and very rewarding experience.
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2013-04-15 19:12:06 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I'm fairly sure people are getting mad because the OP said their beloved emperor is wearing no clothes.


Given the OPs avatar I find this a disturbing and distracting metaphor.

Though I have found this thread remarkably instructive, given the tone of the OP I suspect they lost patience with it quite some time ago.

Private sig. Do not read.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#163 - 2013-04-15 19:19:35 UTC
Shane Saken wrote:


Now as far as the corps and no pvp and such. I have been recommended and seen on multiple replies on this post of RvB (Red vs. Blue) which is a corp that basically dedicates itself to learning pvp properly in eve including for new players. now i do not know if they have a certain requirement as i have not joined or approached them at east as of right now. I have also heard good things about Eve Univ Corps.

This game does take getting used to, but if you take the right steps and do not rush it can be a fun and very rewarding experience.

RvB will accept pretty much anybody, from the greenest newbies to grizzled bitter vets, they don't care as long as you're willing to explode and make things explode, mostly frigates and destroyers, even rookie ships are useful. Eve Uni is a good option if you're after more than simply casual PvP, they do all sorts of stuff.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#164 - 2013-04-15 19:21:35 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Eve Uni is a good option if you're after more than simply casual PvP, they do all sorts of stuff.

But mostly they tell you not to post on the EVE forums and to keep your mouth shut.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#165 - 2013-04-15 20:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
I like EVE.

I will never understand how some people talk this game up like it's the second coming of Christ. The PvP is largely tedious and there is a huge (maybe unavoidable) doldrum between new players and established players.

Lucky, there are enough masochists out there to stick it out to the point where pure inertia can keep them subscribed Big smile

I am not an alt of Chribba.

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2013-04-15 22:10:12 UTC
Leia Kommana wrote:

I mean for god's sake why don't they let you actually pilot your craft?


Because you're not stuck in a shard with a hundred people or an instanced dungeon with 6. EVE allows the possibility for thousands of people to be in the same solar system. There are battles with more than 1000 ships on grid with each other exchanging ammo.

Lag would make it impossible to twitch steer in that environment AND the message traffic to and from the server created by all the attempts to twitch steer would further lag out the servers.


Leia Kommana wrote:

however, the fact that it takes so freaking long to train your skills enough to try out even 1/10th of the content is a huge turnoff.


Yeah, if you are one of those, "buy it on Friday and master it by Sunday" type of people, then this is probably not the game for you.

Then again, it is weeks, not months or years, to be ready for PvP.



Leia Kommana wrote:

but really you can't have fun with that, so where is the fun? Sit around and wait for my skills to go up?


Why can't you have fun with that. It is my understanding the EVE Uni and RvB both take very young players.


Leia Kommana wrote:

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if my corporations were willing to accept newer players, but almost all say , ok must have xxxxx number of SP, and whatnot to join.


Not because you are useless before that point. It is to reduce the probability that you are an alt created to do them harm. They want to see time and activity. So, honestly, just logging in and putting skills in the queue isn't going to help you get into a good corp. They are going to want to check wallet history and see you are doing something to learn the game, generate some income, do some something! Maybe even just die to a suspect out side stations, or go to low sec and die...

Play the game, to prove you are a real new player, and not just some older player's alt looking to infiltrate.


Leia Kommana wrote:

I also think its funny when you hear people talking about combat and killing ships as if it took some sort of skills. The only skill it takes is having a good layout on your ship, and once you actually get into combat its more like a chessgame than a space combat sim.

Meh, I don't know unless I find something more interesting in the next few days I probably won't be logging in again.



Yes, EVE combat is, in general, more strategy than tactics. Being in the right ships, in the right place, luring the other guys into a trap, without getting trapped yourself. So?

Ryun Thar
Doomheim
#167 - 2013-04-16 00:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryun Thar
Go to nullsec. You will run out of boredom extremely quickly.

My 3rd attempt at getting into EvE started a few days ago. This time around, I decided that in order to avoid boredom, I would avoid the easy stuff. So far, I've not been let down. Intensely studying a MAP enough to get my terrible arse into an isolated, quiet pocket of null has kept me enthralled for days. A MAP.

If you think there is nothing to do while waiting a week or two for decent skills, you clearly have no idea how much there is to learn just to stay alive when you put down the mindless content and go looking for a rush.
dark heartt
#168 - 2013-04-16 01:18:58 UTC
Leia Kommana wrote:
I have been trying out Eve the last week or so. I actually ended up buying 2 accounts after seeing how long it takes to train any skills, becuase I wanted to get into trading, but also Pvp, and I can see it would take too damn long to train in both. (at least for me, I am a bit impatient).

Anyway after playing about a week, i am losing interest fast. I am just really bored with the combat mechanics. I mean for god's sake why don't they let you actually pilot your craft?

To be honest while playing it, all I could think was "wow x3 looked so much better, and I really miss being able to pilot my craft, and have real comat where skills actually matter, not just , here click this target, and now wait for my gun to kill it" lol.

Anyway I don't feel like I wasted any money, becuase at least i got to see the game, and I will be honest, the huge vast universe and the amount of different directions you can go is a huge turnon, however, the fact that it takes so freaking long to train your skills enough to try out even 1/10th of the content is a huge turnoff. It wouldnt be so bad if you could just go out and have fun doing combat and whatnot, but really you can't have fun with that, so where is the fun? Sit around and wait for my skills to go up?

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if my corporations were willing to accept newer players, but almost all say , ok must have xxxxx number of SP, and whatnot to join.

I also think its funny when you hear people talking about combat and killing ships as if it took some sort of skills. The only skill it takes is having a good layout on your ship, and once you actually get into combat its more like a chessgame than a space combat sim.

Meh, I don't know unless I find something more interesting in the next few days I probably won't be logging in again.



Welcome to Eve first of all.

X3 is a single player game, not an MMO like Eve. This limits Eve in a lot of ways. First latency and lag is an issue for a real combat model especially when you consider that a good portion of the community like me comes from countries on the other side of the world. If you came to Eve for super realistic space combat then you are in the wrong place. Second you are flying a big ship, not a fighter. You are issuing commands, just like a captain (yes you are in a pod, but you still don't have a joystick in there).

Eve is also a long term game. Most of the people who succeed here have the mindset that they are going to be playing for a long long time. That said, SP is irrelevant for PVP these days. The frigates are in the best shape they have ever been in balance terms. The reason that those big corps have SP requirements is they want someone who is commited to the game, and able to take part in all of the things they do.

It seems like you are interested in combat. Have you seen the corps Red vs Blue and Brave Newbies. Both are new player friendly. I was in RvB for a couple of months and immensely enjoyed my time there. From what I have read and seen from Brave Newbies members, they seem to be pretty much like Goonswarm used to be (a bunch of newbies who don't care what the older players think).

There are skills in combat. Double clicking in space allows you to relatively control your ship and this helps you to do things like keeping transversial high and dictate range. It is more like chess, but that's what Eve has always been about. Again if you think that Eve is twitch game you are mistaken (and how you go that idea, I really really don't know. No advertising material I have seen ever promotes it like that). It is not a 'combat sim' and it has never been said to be a combat sim.

In any case if you do read this, I hope you try out RvB or Brave Newbies as they sound like the sort of thing you want. Keep in mind that it's not a combat sim and you are not a fighter pilot. You are a spaceship captain. Treat the game like that and you will enjoy the game a lot more.

Good luck.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#169 - 2013-04-16 01:26:41 UTC
…also, X3 cheats in every way imaginable to reduce the load on the graphics card — a strategy that EVE cannot employ — and ends up not looking that good in spite of it.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#170 - 2013-04-16 01:54:14 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
Just FYI the assumption that you have to wait months or years to get into PVP is stupid.

The single most important thing in any small or even large skirmish is getting points (tackle), and a newbie can be in a dedicated tackling frigate in roughly 2 days.

The single most annoying thing you can do to any other player is drop ECM on them. You can be in a blackbird or a celestis in under two weeks (Nothing pisses off some guy in a 2 billion isk Macharial/Vindicator more than being shut down entirely by some guy in a ship that costs less than his ammo while he's being nibbled to death by garbage ships).

The easiest to fill and least important individual position in the fleet is ironically often held by the people who have played the longest. The mainline DPS. The guys who press F1.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2013-04-16 03:05:35 UTC
Leia Kommana wrote:
celebro wrote:
Leia Kommana wrote:
[quote=Doc Fury] stuff


The idea behind it is play the game whilst you leave it skill up, no skill grinding.


Again what do I do?
I can't do any higher missions, due to the reasons that I have given. I can't go exploring for the same reasons I gave. So I guess I am just supposed to wait 4 or 5 days till I can get better stuff to do that?

Doesn't that bother anyone here?

Really the only thing I can do at this point is go run a bunch of level 1 missions, which I have already done at least 30 times, for a pittance, and getting the same missions repeating over and over again.

More stuff

Yes. It bothered six of my friends whom I convinced to download the client. They all quit before subbing for the reasons you list and more.

I hung out for a bunch of reasons. The main one is that I can mine semi-afk whilie I do homework. That is now in the past, but I still semi-afk mine while I do all kinds of oher stuff - like play Diablo III.

It is unortunate that the forum warriors here feel the need to bash someone on the verge of quitting instead of encouraging them to stay. Flame those who are on the fence ... FTW !!! Way to go guys.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#172 - 2013-04-16 03:34:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

WoW pvp never ever made me sweat or shake, EVE pvp does that.
If you haven't experience "Cardiac Arrest EVE" you've simply been playing it wrong.

This. So much this. Few games have the kind of effect on me that EvE does.

Urgg Boolean wrote:
It is unfortunate that the forum warriors here feel the need to bash someone on the verge of quitting instead of encouraging them to stay. Flame those who are on the fence ... FTW !!! Way to go guys.

Now compare the tone of this thread, with another similar thread over here

What's the big difference? One of the OP's attitude fits into EvE, the other is largely at odds with it. Part of the whole new player retention thing is that some players are better off without EvE, and EvE is better off without some players. (Disclaimer: in no way am I encouraging the OP to quit, just stating a fact)

Leia Kommana wrote:

I can't do higher level missions, because I don't have the skills for cruisers and bigger ships, and it will be days perhaps weeks before I do.

I can't go off exploring, because of the same issue, I run into rats which I stand no chance against in a destroyer.

I reallize the Devs only want me to sit around until my skills go up, becuase that is how they get me to keep paying for my accounts. However, the fact that I am paying, and really can't do much at all for the moment is pretty rediculous.

This part of the post bugged me. You can do level 3's in the frigate you get in your tutorial and level 4's in a relatively cheap T2 frigate that only takes a few weeks of training to fly pretty well. You just have to know how to pilot your ship instead of lock approach F1. You obviously never even tried to move up to a level 2 mission.

Some high sec exploration sites are restricted to frigs and destroyers only, you can't run them in anything bigger. That "argument" is out the window too.

The devs don't want you to afk and train skills for two years. That doesn't generate content for existing subscribers, nor does it get you to pull in extra customers for them. What they want you to do is interact with people. Create content. It's not that you can't do anything, you're not willing to go do anything. The biggest challenge in EvE is figuring out what you want to do. There is no grand railroad. There is no one to tell you what to do. You need to be able to figure that out on your own. Stop asking people what you should/are supposed to/can do. Start asking yourself what you want to do and work towards it.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#173 - 2013-04-16 11:26:40 UTC
It's interesting to compare the OP in this thread (and the tone of the resulting thread) with this one; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225831&find=unread

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#174 - 2013-04-16 11:56:51 UTC
Well OP, I'm afraid you are quite mistaken about eve. There is a lot more to this game and how it works than you seem to have learned in a week and pretty much all you said is...well...wrong. Here's hoping you will find what you are looking for. o/



.
Aracimia Wolfe
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#175 - 2013-04-16 12:08:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's interesting to compare the OP in this thread (and the tone of the resulting thread) with this one; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225831&find=unread



Indeed

FAO: The OP, you have to keep loking.

I found a corp that let me right in. 2 weeks mucking around then right into Null in a rifter. GUNZ BLAZING

FW corps, RvB, Brave Newbies. There ya go, instant fun. (Especially brave Newbies)

Kill it with Fire!

Lenda Shinhwa
Bad Touches
#176 - 2013-04-16 15:27:48 UTC
You just need to experiement with some of the different lifestyles of Eve. There are lots of fun things to do, even under a million skillpoints. Go join Brave Newbies; their videos seem like a blast. Train up Planetary Interaction skills for a few days and put your installs in a lowsec system. Find a lowsec pirate corp that takes on new pilots. Some wormhole corps are willing to take on newish players that want to mine the gav (asteroid belts) and ladar (gas) sites. Some lowsec corps are willing to take on newish players who want to mine (aka provide bait) and begin learning about PvP. I honestly can't think of many fun things to do in hisec. The PvE in this game is mostly used to grind isk. Although Factional Warfare looks interesting, you just need to find a corp that does that sort of thing.

I myself have found a life with the New Order to be very rewarding. We are involved in Eve game mechanic education. With a 10 hour old character and a few New Order friends you can make large ships explode in hisec. You can also go on safari which involves joining a corp and introducing them to several interesting game mechanics and the excitment of non-consensual PvP. See these sites for more information on these exciting career opportunities:

Miner Bumping
Belligerent Undesireables
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#177 - 2013-04-16 20:49:29 UTC
Leia Kommana wrote:


I also think its funny when you hear people talking about combat and killing ships as if it took some sort of skills. The only skill it takes is having a good layout on your ship, and once you actually get into combat its more like a chess game than a space combat sim.



What would Bobby Fischer think!?!?

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#178 - 2013-04-16 20:58:29 UTC
Rath Kelbore wrote:
What would Bobby Fischer think!?!?


"What is this Deep Blue Donut and Eve thing Kasparov keeps talking about?"





.
Garresh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2013-04-17 03:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Garresh
Honestly...you're doing it wrong. As you start out, you will find that you need to be patient to accumulate skills. But frankly, within 2 weeks you can be fully committed to any one career path in eve, and making bank. Be that trading, missions, exploration, etc.

And as for combat, you don't fully yet grasp the nuances of combat. There's a lot more to it. When you start factoring in transversal and angular velocity, along with agility, differing ranges and tracking speeds, and the variety of different ship types...

Let's just say that the skill cap for even a 1v1 frig dual is absurdly high. And to explain this, I will provide some links of reading material to help you understand better.

http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
This provides some basic understanding of how damage is calculated. The formula is a bit off now I believe, but the basic mechanics and theory are sound.

http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=2_40&page=6
The introductory guide to interceptors. Absolutely necessary for any dogfighter or starting frig pilot.

And just to drive the point home, I'm going to link a couple fights I had that I should have lost. In both cases, I was either outgunned, or straight up countered by a fitting designed to beat my ship, and came out ahead cause I knew what I was doing.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16817785
In this fight, he was flying a hookbill with a tracking disruptor. I *ALSO* had a tracking disruptor fit. Since he used missiles, my disruptor was a wasted slot, while his disruptor was even more effective because I was using 200mm autos, which have the worst tracking of that module group. Luckily, I noticed he wasn't really using manual flight at all. Since my ship had higher mobility, I easily orbit broke him and got him into a tail chase where transversal was minimal, then manually adjusted my speed to keep him within falloff. When he caught on and tried to change tactics, I turned and overheated and ran straight into him, creating a second of high transversal followed by his autopilot attempting to run and maintain a 7km orbit, putting ME into a tailchase at point blank range, where I was in optimal with no transversal. At that point he melted. I still remember this fight fondly.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13959779
I actually don't remember what happened in this fight, as it was so long ago, but I sure as **** had to be doing something right because a Firetail shouldn't beat a Dramiel in any normal conditions.

Anyways, not trying to turn this into some kind of epeen wave. Just trying to prove that you don't understand combat yet. PvE combat IS boring because all it really amounts to is fitting your resists for the task at hand. PvP is all about transversal, tracking, signature resolution, and range. In almost all fights, you can manually maneuver yourself to either maximize your own damage, or minimize enemy damage. Often you can do both. I can honestly say that my 1v1 frig fights I got in faction warfare have been some of the most intense and INSANE fights I've ever been in.

Edit: And while I'm at it, one more thing. I cannot fly any ship at max skills. I think the highest I have any of my ships at is like 94% efficiency. most of my ships I fly at like 75% of max skills and do just fine. Hell I'm trained up to fly Amarr Recons and I can't even use T1 medium lasers. Still works fine for my exploration pilgrim. Stop focusing on the skills and you realize how little skills actually matter.

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Garresh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#180 - 2013-04-17 03:31:48 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Leia Kommana wrote:
Not true, I did ALL the tutorials, and many more missions besides that.
My point is, what am I supposed to do now?

I can't do higher level missions, because I don't have the skills for cruisers and bigger ships, and it will be days perhaps weeks before I do.


Valid point.

For the vets who can do whatever they want, they'll be sure to come here to defend the status quo. But they're not helping the game grow, they're dinosaurs with the heads in the sand defending their turf. Happens in too many games, and then they wonder why the game becomes more of a bot haven.

CCP could improve the game by offering more for newer players who haven't experienced the skill grind (and it's a different type of grind, but has the same feel...pure timesink to pay to play). Because it takes a good month to have the skills to even do level 3 missions in a battlecruiser. A player will grow out of level 1/2 within a month, even casually playing. Then they hit the wall of trying to skill up to use a battlecruiser with enough skills to do early level 4s. Then face the real skill grind to fly a battleship.

So between cruisers and battleships there needs to be something to do. Asking players to pay to sit in a dock to level maybe fine for vets, but it's not how to attract and keep newer players. They outgrown level 1/2 missions, but level 3/4 are out of reach in a frigate (or they can make the mistake of jumping into a battlecruiser without the weapons/defense skills and now out of ships that insurance doesn't payout to replace).


I started in 2009. I was making enough money to PLEX within 2 months. I never ran a mission until like 1.5 YEARS into my character because I found it boring. If you refuse to innovate then that's on you. I know many other players, including MYSELF that did extraordinarily well within a very short time of starting. Hell I had my own POS in w-space and was making billions within 5 months of starting. It's not that we vets want to defend the status quo. It's that we know the system works because we went through it. If OP is dying in missions, maybe he should stop trying to use a destroyer and learn how to utilize transversal in a frigate first. Dessies have no tank. Of course he's struggling. he fails to understand the combat mechanics and so he fails to succeed. Go download Eve Fitting Tool and play with the graphs if you're still confused. And for the record, there are people out there who did level 4 missions in Assault Ships. Obviously it's hard as hell and not optimal, but I've seen videos of it.

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