These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Started playing Eve for the first time last week

Author
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2013-03-31 08:56:29 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:

They can make good isk, they can try to influence prices, but they don't control the market.

No one entity or block can make everything and have it in the numbers 24/7 to have that control. Doesn't matter how deep their pockets can be. That's like saying the guy with the deepest pockets in a casino will influence the payout.


I'd like to point you towards the goon ice interdiction last year. They increased isotope prices 50-100% for months.

Also before the alchemy re-balance, technetium was controlled and manipulated hard by the coalitions in the north.

Also various events like hulkaggeden can cause spikes that last weeks if not months.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#102 - 2013-03-31 09:58:04 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Leia Kommana wrote:
Not true, I did ALL the tutorials, and many more missions besides that.
My point is, what am I supposed to do now?

I can't do higher level missions, because I don't have the skills for cruisers and bigger ships, and it will be days perhaps weeks before I do.


Valid point.

For the vets who can do whatever they want, they'll be sure to come here to defend the status quo. But they're not helping the game grow, they're dinosaurs with the heads in the sand defending their turf. Happens in too many games, and then they wonder why the game becomes more of a bot haven.

CCP could improve the game by offering more for newer players who haven't experienced the skill grind (and it's a different type of grind, but has the same feel...pure timesink to pay to play). Because it takes a good month to have the skills to even do level 3 missions in a battlecruiser. A player will grow out of level 1/2 within a month, even casually playing. Then they hit the wall of trying to skill up to use a battlecruiser with enough skills to do early level 4s. Then face the real skill grind to fly a battleship.

So between cruisers and battleships there needs to be something to do. Asking players to pay to sit in a dock to level maybe fine for vets, but it's not how to attract and keep newer players. They outgrown level 1/2 missions, but level 3/4 are out of reach in a frigate (or they can make the mistake of jumping into a battlecruiser without the weapons/defense skills and now out of ships that insurance doesn't payout to replace).
And you consider PvE to be the vital part of EvE ... why ?
The PvE is crap. Everybody knows that. New people should interact with players
instead of wasting their time trying to make money by shooting NPCs.

The issue isn't the PvE grind, the issue are peopel who tell noobs to mine or run missions.

All you talk about here is the stupid grind ... as if there wasn't actually much more worth playing in this game.

CCP considers making NPCs more like actual player ships for a reason.
They want to move PvE and PvP closer together and that's definitely NOT to promote more PvE play !


Exactly, the way the OP and Uoweme speak is typical for a high sec carebear mentality with no imagination and just want everything spoon fed to them while they cry for more.

There is literally tonnes of stuff to do even with a one week old character. I can guarantee that the OP would not be able to cover everything possible to do with low skill points in the time it takes to train up more advanced skills. Just for a start you have salvaging which will earn you way more than any missioning at your level, if you scan down level 4s then you will be learning the probing mechanics too. Then you have literally tonnes of greatly rebalanced T1 frigates and cruisers you can easily jump into and PVP in FW and earn loads of isk at the same time getting LP.

And that is just two examples, literally there are so many more things, but like the OP and Uoweme, most choose to take the whiney entitlement option and aren't happy enless they can jump into capital ships from day one. Trust me you can have just as much fun, if not more fun in smaller ships, than you can have in a cap ship. But luckily Eve has a self eject mechanism built into it especially for whiny babies like yourselves.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2013-03-31 10:06:06 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Exactly, the way the OP and Uoweme speak is typical for a high sec carebear mentality with no imagination and just want everything spoon fed to them while they cry for more.


Actually, I have a lot of foresight in games and game balance. The entitled folks here are the PvPers who only see the game from their tiny corner, then try to project it's everything and the only thing that matters.

You can't exist without PvE.

Ratting = PvE.

Your ships and fittings = PvE.

The materials to make them all = PvE.

PvP could not exist without PvE. They go hand-in-hand.

And it's you who live in denial when you refuse to acknowledge this fact.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Cazador 64
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-03-31 10:11:20 UTC
I remember thinking the same thing, I maybe even made a post just like this one as well(although it may have been 2 months in not one week), That was about 3 years ago.
There is plenty to do with no little sp. Basic tackle doesn't take much sp.
Ninja salvage, try to figure out the market you can still do trading with little sp just takes more leg work.

stay or leave people here will not care either way.
The Devs are not going to read this post and me like Oh my we have been doing it wrong for almost ten years!
Eve is more about politics then SP IMO.
Not trying to talk you into staying or leaving it really does not matter to me either.

I was going to type more but I lost interest have fun in an other mmo that you can get end game in a week.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2013-03-31 10:12:24 UTC
Thur Barbek wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:

They can make good isk, they can try to influence prices, but they don't control the market.

No one entity or block can make everything and have it in the numbers 24/7 to have that control. Doesn't matter how deep their pockets can be. That's like saying the guy with the deepest pockets in a casino will influence the payout.


I'd like to point you towards the goon ice interdiction last year. They increased isotope prices 50-100% for months.

Also before the alchemy re-balance, technetium was controlled and manipulated hard by the coalitions in the north.

Also various events like hulkaggeden can cause spikes that last weeks if not months.


That's influencing the market, but that's not controlling it, as there's other sources in nullsec.

For what Goons could do, another block could do the same with another commodity.

The market balances itself out, as it's inter-dependent. No block is an island, they all need each other for what they have.

This is why null has ABC ore; high-sec has trit/scordite. Null could influence the null ore prices, but high-sec can then fight back with their own influence. In the end, the price wars can't go on forever as it gets to be too expensive for everyone. The market evens out for survival.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2013-03-31 10:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
The first few weeks of "playing" EVE are to a large part "reading about EVE".

The tutorials are surprisingly comprehensive but very poor in presentation, so you probably missed (or didn't understand) most of the information presented to you (the interesting information is always a wall of text below the mission text in the left pane, as it doesn't provide any valuable information on the mission at hand most people don't read it). And no amount of static tutorials can prepare you for the social side of EVE.

Read up on game mechanics, read up on politics, have a look into the various forum sections to see what other players are doing, learn to use the essential OOG applications, discover 3rd party forums & news sites, ...

There's a lot of things you won't understand because you are lacking prerequisite knowledge and some things you probably won't understand until you have actually tried them in-game - but just read everything you can get your hands on and you'll eventually get a feeling for the game mechanics of EVE, for the game's history and the metagame. And that will help you tremendously.

EVE is a knowledge-based game - it generally doesn't require brilliant thinking or superb reflexes but it relies massively on experience and knowledge.

If I (who have been playing EVE for 4.5 years) were to start a new account and not give it any help from my existing characters (something I actually did last fall/winter) I would not be bored. I know where to find pvp (and which ships to fly with low SP), I know how to earn decent money even in the first few days of playing, I know what corporations are looking for in a newbie and how to find a corp that is not complete crap, ...

EVE isn't unfun because you have a low SP character, EVE is unfun to you because you are lacking experience (or guidance to make up for that lack of knowledge).

.

Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#107 - 2013-03-31 10:23:08 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Exactly, the way the OP and Uoweme speak is typical for a high sec carebear mentality with no imagination and just want everything spoon fed to them while they cry for more.


Actually, I have a lot of foresight in games and game balance. The entitled folks here are the PvPers who only see the game from their tiny corner, then try to project it's everything and the only thing that matters.

You can't exist without PvE.

Ratting = PvE.

Your ships and fittings = PvE.

The materials to make them all = PvE.

PvP could not exist without PvE. They go hand-in-hand.

And it's you who live in denial when you refuse to acknowledge this fact.


Good going in managing to get everything I said out of context and switch it on to a different subject. I wasn't talking about PVE or PVP. Of course PVE activities are valuable and essential part of the game and I do both PVP and PVE.

I was talking about the attitude which you and the OP and many other whiny babies seem to display when things aren't instantly handed to them on a platter and they have to actually work out what to do for themselves.

Luckily the OP seems to have changed their attitude somewhat, so I wish them the best of luck and hope they follow some of the advice in this thread. I think once you get into Eve uni then things will open up, as Eve uni is literally built for players like you and is a great way of easing people into the game who are having a little trouble.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#108 - 2013-03-31 10:24:35 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
The first few weeks of "playing" EVE are to a large part "reading about EVE".


Heh, I just had to laugh at this statement because it is so true.
Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#109 - 2013-03-31 10:36:05 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Good going in managing to get everything I said out of context and switch it on to a different subject.


He seems to excel at that. Take something out of context, nitpick points that weren't even made, all in relevance to something else he thought up in his head.

.

Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Ronins
#110 - 2013-03-31 12:13:21 UTC
You can do pvp very quickly if you think in terms of TACTICS and ewar instead of max skills and dps brawling.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Ronins
#111 - 2013-03-31 12:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Keep in mind CCP saw fit to buff miner barges for some reason. People debate on the real reason, but the main truth is they buffed it. Obviously, it wasn't to help in the PVPing of said ships. So in some regard CCP has a mind out to those who aren't completely PVP oriented. They added PI which wasn't PVP related. They added incursions which also doesn't seem to be that PVP related. So yes, there is a market for non-PVP oriented players it seems. Is the newest expansion even that PVP oriented? I suppose WH exploration can be, but aren't they talking about exploration in hi-sec as well?


PvE will exist in EvE, as CCP even realizes that a % of the population wants to do other things than just kill things. And from what I heard from the PvPers too, those incursions are tougher than the PvP that's going on. Those PvErs have to go in with the most expensive ships, not throwaway destroyers, and risk billions. Imagine the cries of PvE now being tougher than PvP, because like it is in WoW, raiding takes planning and gear, arenas don't take as much.

I didn't come to EvE for the PvP (I can get that in 100000000001 other games), I came because it has the best crafting system/market in MMOs. I realize it is a PvP game, but also realize -- from playing WoW and other MMOs -- not everyone likes crafting, and someone has to make the beans and bullets.

Both co-exist because both need each other. PvErs to make isk/RP, PvPers for the gear to keep pewpewpewing.


SOME pve is harder than pvp. Making JUST ONE t2 item is literally months and months of reading, skill training, grinding (if you want your own research pos) and spreadsheets. It's about 100x more work and more complex than pvp in my opinion.
Cel Nobol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2013-03-31 18:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Cel Nobol
Leia Kommana wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
*facepalm*

You're new to the game but believe you already know enough about everything,
of what you have chosen to do, to criticize it.
That really makes sense to you ?

Also ... you *can* pilot your ship.
Ever tried clicking into space ?
I play mostly that way...

Well ... thanks for joining ... have a nice life. o/


Lol I knew I would get flamed, and go ahead flame me, I am simply giving my perspective, because I want the devs to know, if you want people to join the game, and stay in the game, you need to add a bit more content to the begining, e.g. things that you can actually do without need 10 million skill points.

CCP has added tons on new player content. A newb can start pvping within a month most pvpers use t1 frigates with t1 fits. It does take skill and you will learn that if you choose to stay. Go ahead and pimp out your 35billion isk ship I'll blow you out of the sky with a t1 fit.


Also eve has over 500million subs on 1 server. Eve is in no danger of losing subs.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#113 - 2013-03-31 18:32:54 UTC
Cel Nobol wrote:
Also eve has over 500million subs on 1 server. Eve is in no danger of losing subs.



errrm...where are all these people? so like 50-60k original accounts and 499,940,000 alt accounts? because i rarely see over 60k players on at once in peak time. maybe i'm missing something?
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#114 - 2013-03-31 18:33:53 UTC
Leia Kommana wrote:


Stop assuming I am some WoW player or some crap and that I am too dumb to figure out anything for myself. I am a professional in real life and I have work that is very complicated, work that forces me to literally spend days on problems for which there is very little assistance. However, that is work that I am being paid to perform. On the other hand when i am paying for a game, I expect to have more content that I can actually enjoy. Not waiting for days just for things to skill up so that I can actually get involved in the game.


Classic narcissist
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
#115 - 2013-03-31 18:38:56 UTC
over half the fun of eve is the community. remember if your not with crew your mostly wasting your time. some of the peeps in this game you'll end up hanging with for the next several yrs.
Shaffin Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-03-31 18:58:13 UTC
Hey All,
Not going to feed any trolls, just here to say hello! Just started playing EVE yesterday and just found my first cosmic signature this morning thanks to some help from people in local chat. I am enjoying things so far and have learned to queue up training before I log off which is helping me move along quickly. If anyone wants to help mentor me in game, feel free to contact me as I am sure I have a lot to learn and it seems there is a lot of vets in this thread.
Alexander Bjorvisk
Dynamic Solutions Incorporated
#117 - 2013-03-31 19:54:20 UTC
Well Leia, I suppose EVE isn't for everyone.

I for one am a patient person, always have been and I love the training in EVE. In EVE, when someone kills you. You KNOW that they trained their ass off to even scratch you, you know that that player has dedicated his time to the game.

This is important in an MMO if you ask me, dedication. Too many MMOs are short and feel like you can just accomplish everything too soon.

I plan to play this for years if I get the possibility. It's a harsh universe where people are agressive, yes. But that's what I love about it.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#118 - 2013-03-31 20:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Eve doesn't hand you anything... If you were expecting the tutorials to point you in the direction of new and exiting things that's where you went wrong.

Finding a corp is not difficult. Most highsec corporations gobble up new players because no one else wants to join. There are significantly more corps looking for players than there are players looking for corps. Go to the recruitment channel and say "Hi! I am looking for a new-player friendly corp" and you will get mobbed by conversations trying to convince you their corp is for you. Mission running is really really boring. Do it when your waiting for something else, like waiting for a scam to come to fruition, or waiting for the FC in your corp to call everyone together for combat. But mission running is like 1/1000th of the Eve gaming experience.

You can train a PvP character in less than a week. People say this is bullshit relatively frequently. I created my alt (who I still use oddly enough) for the sole purpose of proving that I could kill other players before the first week of playing was over (and I did, by the way). If skill has nothing to do with winning in PvP, then how exactly did I kill other players with a character that can't use any tech 2 mods, and has less than a weeks worth of skillpoints? Want PvP instantly? Red vs Blue will take you with little to no questions asked. They'll even teach you to be a good PvPer quicker than most people can get to level 2 missions. Agony have a training corp as well (who, from what I hear, are awesome).

Seriously, if you want something in Eve, don't wait for someone to point you in the right direction because the game will literally never do that for you. Decide what you want, and fight your way to that goal. If you fight hard enough you'll get what you want. Most of the best places you can get to, or best situations you can be in, are achieved by talking to people. Socializing.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2013-03-31 21:14:30 UTC
Hi. I don't know if the OP is still reading this or playing EVE. I am also a completely new player (second week) and I would like to offer my POV as alternative. That said I do not feel that either criticizing or attempting to persuade the OP of something is likely to be fruitful.

This is how I have categorized 'things to do' for myself thus far.

1- Market: Nothing happens without ISK, even if you have that through PLEX or proxy values from things like coroporate association and ship provision, replacement, etc. Includes all the choices about vertical integration from rocks to territorial ambition and kill count.
2- Skills: Progression is more or less constant and fixed. Value comes from strategic choices about skill architecture in order to achieve player driven aims in the sandbox. No amount of effort will make my skills go faster (except Implants and remaps). Whether the way I architect my skills is leveraged in game or not is another matter.
3- PvP/PvE: I can see from reading that some people seem to play the game as PvE and enjoy that. It seems to me though that the overall context of the game is PvP, whether ship to ship, market place, or territorial. I think the addition DUST and the ability to interact with an entirely different sort of player base is going to be an amazing addition to the game, fraught with conflict and disagreement. Cool
4- Sociopolitical: Of course... and particularly since it is sandbox. Might be considered the PvP end game.
5- Meta: Includes communities and collateral materials such as this Forum, but for the most part I am still trying to figure out where the game is bounded and the meta starts. Clueless at the moment beyond the general structural theory and my past experience associated with meta gaming in general.

EVE is much more like Second Life with more shared structure. This means that the game is primarily relational, but with more of a structure around possible goals and means to goals than Second Life. That structure might not be immediately apparent it seems to me, but it is there. It is not really a 'sandbox'. It is a structured sandbox. If it were truly a sandbox then the programming level would be the structure, rather than in-game artifacts and process.

The difficulty with point #3 above is that the feedback loops for progress are not fast enough. In order to detect positive progress a shift in expectation and perspective is required. On the other hand I have found that initially negative 'fail' based feedback is quite easy to acquire by merely venturing into the wrong part of the game alone. Lol Over time this will become the basis for a positive feedback loop when it becomes possible to do so without losing all one's possessions in the process. Initially then it is not exactly an acquisitive game, though it seems like it would be. It is a merely survive game.

The 'end game' seems to me massively strategic and territorial. Also very difficult for the single beginning player to detect. This is all mostly meta game and difficult for the new player to access. Everything else, including people who just want to go 'pew pew pew' in a cool space ship are in support of and contextualized by that meta game. The game would have gone out of existence long ago, in part because of the things the OP is saying, a long time ago without this.

That said there are ways to shortcut the entry into the meta game, it seems to me. They are completely relational in nature. not my first interest at the moment, but if I wanted to I would begin by creating relationship with people outside the context of the game through forums and such. I may be confused, but as far as I can tell the whole Goon thing is contextualized by Something Awful, for instance. BTW, buying a fully skilled character as a first move is probably not any sort of entrance into the meta game and in fact may inhibit that. It might give the impression of some immediate gratification I suppose, but is almost certainly not sustainable.

I was sent this link which I found to be helpful:
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

It is not that there nothing to do. It is that there is too much to do such that what to do becomes lost. To the OP I would suggest that if what you are doing is not working then do something else, which might include simply not playing. You suggested that you were posting because you wanted the developers to know. I think they know. I suspect you posted for another reason. I suspect that you see the relational possibility of the medium and want something about that, but perhaps want it faster than the structure of the game supports in some ways. Posting 2 weeks into the game in the way you did created plenty of relationship, though perhaps not of the sort you wanted. Hard to say. I don't mean to make uninformed or unfair attributions. Just how it seems to me.

It is not hard to say that EVE has a very steep, long learning curve compared to the modern milieu of gaming. Though the OP does in fact have that attentional capacity, not only claimed, but demonstrated by generating this entire thread, for the most part industrialized culture has eroded this. The 'learning' is not something you must do in order to play the game. For a very long time it is the game, it seems to me. If we imagine that all the out of game learning and research is so we can then play the game, only forcing ourselves to endure that for some big payoff, I think we might be missing the actual game. We will be in the condition of continually feeling like "When will the game start? When will I get to the good stuff?" If the learning curve itself is not the good stuff it seems to me you might not enjoy the game, unless you are able to quickly create a meaningful, or at least amusing relational context in which you play.

Private sig. Do not read.

Cel Nobol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2013-03-31 22:18:00 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
Cel Nobol wrote:
Also eve has over 500million subs on 1 server. Eve is in no danger of losing subs.



errrm...where are all these people? so like 50-60k original accounts and 499,940,000 alt accounts? because i rarely see over 60k players on at once in peak time. maybe i'm missing something?

I said over 500 million subs. Could be separate people... never know for sure.


Given the amount of people that log on, train skills, log off 50-60k is a realisrtic number at every given time. People log and logoff all the time.