These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Increased opportunities for PvP - Jump drives work only in nulsec

First post
Author
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2013-04-11 17:41:22 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Velicitia wrote:

[sarcasm]
you're absolutely right, nullsec alliances have zero mining capacity. It's not like they wouldn't bring down their (currently residing in hisec) mining alts, and tear through constellations like locusts.
[/sarcasm]

First problem right now today with nullsec is that it has less than 5% of the industrial capacity of hisec (i.e. available slots, not players with the skills).

Fix this part, and the "problem" will take care of itself.

That's not what I want. Disruption of supplylines between empire and sov space is what I want. More opportunities for PvP as it becomes more dangerous for the freighting of goods. This accomplishes that in a very simple fashion.


Unless you are an alliance like Goonswarm with a high sec/null sec entry. Then you can enjoy the benefits of both null and high sec with almost zero disruption.

Yeah...lets buff Goonswarm!

The industry in that hisec system must be formidable to be able to replace the journey from Jita.



Hint: They'll freighter everything to that one system, transfer it to jump freighters, go through the one gate from highsec into null, then jump directly to wherever in null they're going. or, freighter everything to the station in their nullsec entry point for transfer to carriers/rorquals/etc, meaning there will be a 'convoy protection op' that covers one gate and nothing more.

Please, tell us why that one jump is worth nerfing the hell out of lowsec, wrecking the ability of faction warfare corps to escalate to caps, removing the ability to stage in lowsec and hit sov holders from there, removing the ability to evac your assets if you're losing sov or leaving null.....

Also, tell us why the big players need to be the only ones capable of logistics.

ALSO, tell us how nullsec is expected to actually produce anything with the pitiful amount of factory slots we have out there.

ALSO ALSO, tell us where we're going to get our lowends from? Or rather, tell us why you want to encourage people to bot mine?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2013-04-11 18:53:36 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:



Hint: They'll freighter everything to that one system, transfer it to jump freighters, go through the one gate from highsec into null, then jump directly to wherever in null they're going. or, freighter everything to the station in their nullsec entry point for transfer to carriers/rorquals/etc, meaning there will be a 'convoy protection op' that covers one gate and nothing more.


Pretty much.

Now some place like Venal, which is NPC null and the home of various alliances creating a headache for northern sov holding alliances will likely become a de facto space of the sov holders in the region. No outside alliance could hope to live there with no reasonable logistics. Right now you can barely reach Venal from Lonetrek....low sec. After this change, that would no longer be possible. So Goons/CFC would own that space too for all intents and purposes.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#83 - 2013-04-12 06:52:40 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Okay, that went right over your head. Goons wont have to replace the journey from Jita. EC- is null. Torrinos is high sec. So they can jump stuff out to Dekelin very easyily, unlike say Fountain.

It obviously confuses you. The trip from hi to nul is to move goods made in hisec. Unless Torrinos has an eye-wateringly good manufacturing base the journey from Jita to Torrinos/EC still needs to be accomplished by ordinary freighting. Plenty of PvP opportunities.

It looks like it's gone right over your head.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#84 - 2013-04-12 07:02:24 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

Hint: They'll freighter everything to that one system, transfer it to jump freighters, go through the one gate from highsec into null, then jump directly to wherever in null they're going. or, freighter everything to the station in their nullsec entry point for transfer to carriers/rorquals/etc, meaning there will be a 'convoy protection op' that covers one gate and nothing more.

Please, tell us why that one jump is worth nerfing the hell out of lowsec, wrecking the ability of faction warfare corps to escalate to caps, removing the ability to stage in lowsec and hit sov holders from there, removing the ability to evac your assets if you're losing sov or leaving null.....

Also, tell us why the big players need to be the only ones capable of logistics.

ALSO, tell us how nullsec is expected to actually produce anything with the pitiful amount of factory slots we have out there.

ALSO ALSO, tell us where we're going to get our lowends from? Or rather, tell us why you want to encourage people to bot mine?

Hint: Precisely what's wanted, no jumping out, everything needing to be freighted to nul/one-jump out. Increased opportunities for PvP (remember the title of this topic?).

Please, tell us .... FAIL. FW uses mostly frigs and cruisers, so this affects them not at all. I know, I have an alt in FW.

Also, tell us why the FAIL. I didn't even hint at that. YOU introduced that, pretending it's what I'm saying.

ALSO, tell us how nullsec FAIL. It's not for everyone else to support sov alliances' stranglehold on sov space. You need more slots, build them yourselves.

ALSO ALSO, tell us where FAIL. You want everyone else to play the game for you? Work it out yourself!

That other poster has a point. All these recent gimicks have turned sov alliances into gangs of whiney brats. If you can't hold onto your space without leeching off those you shut out of it, then expect to fail.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2013-04-12 14:53:41 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:

Hint: They'll freighter everything to that one system, transfer it to jump freighters, go through the one gate from highsec into null, then jump directly to wherever in null they're going. or, freighter everything to the station in their nullsec entry point for transfer to carriers/rorquals/etc, meaning there will be a 'convoy protection op' that covers one gate and nothing more.

Please, tell us why that one jump is worth nerfing the hell out of lowsec, wrecking the ability of faction warfare corps to escalate to caps, removing the ability to stage in lowsec and hit sov holders from there, removing the ability to evac your assets if you're losing sov or leaving null.....

Also, tell us why the big players need to be the only ones capable of logistics.

ALSO, tell us how nullsec is expected to actually produce anything with the pitiful amount of factory slots we have out there.

ALSO ALSO, tell us where we're going to get our lowends from? Or rather, tell us why you want to encourage people to bot mine?

Hint: Precisely what's wanted, no jumping out, everything needing to be freighted to nul/one-jump out. Increased opportunities for PvP (remember the title of this topic?).

Please, tell us .... FAIL. FW uses mostly frigs and cruisers, so this affects them not at all. I know, I have an alt in FW.

Also, tell us why the FAIL. I didn't even hint at that. YOU introduced that, pretending it's what I'm saying.

ALSO, tell us how nullsec FAIL. It's not for everyone else to support sov alliances' stranglehold on sov space. You need more slots, build them yourselves.

ALSO ALSO, tell us where FAIL. You want everyone else to play the game for you? Work it out yourself!

That other poster has a point. All these recent gimicks have turned sov alliances into gangs of whiney brats. If you can't hold onto your space without leeching off those you shut out of it, then expect to fail.


So, why do I read battlereports about FW caps and supers? Why should the organised corps not even have the option to escalate like that?

Explain exactly how a small alliance is expected to be able to cover freighters across multiple regions, when even a large one would struggle.

Build them where? How? A fully upgraded amarr station has 29 slots. It also costs multiple billions. How, exactly, would anyone besides the CFC/HBC/other blocs be expected to drop enough of them to actually build even enough ammunition to support themselves?

You ignored several questions, so why is this worth: removing the ability to stage in lowsec and hit sov holders from there, removing the ability to evac your assets if you're losing sov or leaving null.


In addition to that, you seem to have mistaken NPC or altcorp haulers in regular freighters crossing highsec for an increase in PVP opportunities. You'd increase the opportunities for suicide ganking at the cost of making it virtually impossible to actually live in low or nullsec for a prolonged period of time.

You do not actually know what you are talking about, do you.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2013-04-12 17:00:51 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Okay, that went right over your head. Goons wont have to replace the journey from Jita. EC- is null. Torrinos is high sec. So they can jump stuff out to Dekelin very easyily, unlike say Fountain.

It obviously confuses you. The trip from hi to nul is to move goods made in hisec. Unless Torrinos has an eye-wateringly good manufacturing base the journey from Jita to Torrinos/EC still needs to be accomplished by ordinary freighting. Plenty of PvP opportunities.

It looks like it's gone right over your head.


If you aren't stupid while packing your freighter, no there wont be. Jita - Torrinos is a completely 100% high sec route. Aside from freighter ganking, there will be zero PVP. Just like there is not PVP now when going from Jita to Torrinos.

Quote:
Hint: Precisely what's wanted, no jumping out, everything needing to be freighted to nul/one-jump out. Increased opportunities for PvP (remember the title of this topic?).


Do you even play this game? No really, do you actually play? The poster is correct, there wont be any extra PvP in this specific case. Here is the route to Torrinos:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/route/2:Jita:Torrinos

13 jumps...all High sec.

The next stop is EC-P8R:

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/EC-P8R

Goon sov, and a station system.

No extra PvP. At all. JF, picks up the load(s) in Torrinos, jumps into EC- (which Goons will almost surely have perma camped if this change were for some mind boggling reason implemented) and then when cap recharges, jump to the next beacon system many light years (and several constellations) away.

And in case it escapes you there is absolutely nothing in your proposal that would keep any alliance from using NPC hauling alts in high security space. So no war decs either.

The same thing holds for HED-GP down in Catch. It connects directly to high sec. For Delve/Querious they have 1 low sec system, Efa. So again very likely little extra PvP there. And since the same alliance/coalition holds Delve, Querious, Fountain Period Basis and Catch, it would be a huge gift to that coalition.

Now the residents of Stain....****ed in the a$$.

Oh and guess what the residents of Stain are currently doing? Fighting the HBC. And if anyone in the future wants to fight the HBC they might opt for basing out of NPC Delve or Kahnid or possibly even Stain...but with your changes that will become very problematic.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#87 - 2013-04-12 20:01:14 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
.....


Someone who has played this game since the very early days has already pointed out that nulsec was perfectly viable without JF, and has even taken time to explain how it was managed, demolishing all of your scenarios of armageddon. That the idea of it scares you so much is no reason to lash out at any proposal to bring it back.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2013-04-13 07:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
.....


Someone who has played this game since the very early days has already pointed out that nulsec was perfectly viable without JF, and has even taken time to explain how it was managed, demolishing all of your scenarios of armageddon. That the idea of it scares you so much is no reason to lash out at any proposal to bring it back.



No he didn't. When pressed for further information he failed to respond.

And nice dodge by the way. I guess we can conclude the Danika Princip and I are correct, that in those cases where there is a high sec/null sec gate very little extra PvP will be had.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#89 - 2013-04-13 07:56:09 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
.....


Someone who has played this game since the very early days has already pointed out that nulsec was perfectly viable without JF, and has even taken time to explain how it was managed, demolishing all of your scenarios of armageddon. That the idea of it scares you so much is no reason to lash out at any proposal to bring it back.



No he didn't. When pressed for further information he failed to respond.

And nice dodge by the way. I guess we can conclude the Danika Princip and I are correct, that in those cases where there is a high sec/null sec gate very little extra PvP will be had.

Roll

Haven't dodged anything, as well you know 'by the way'. Gankers would be swarming over this hisec system like piranhas smelling blood; you ought to know that, being an expert on the game. See the swarms in Jita? That 's how your hisec system would be.

As for his failing to respond: your refusal to acknowledge that the game worked fine without JF is reason enough not to press the point. 'None so blind' and all that.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2013-04-13 15:47:12 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
.....


Someone who has played this game since the very early days has already pointed out that nulsec was perfectly viable without JF, and has even taken time to explain how it was managed, demolishing all of your scenarios of armageddon. That the idea of it scares you so much is no reason to lash out at any proposal to bring it back.



No he didn't. When pressed for further information he failed to respond.

And nice dodge by the way. I guess we can conclude the Danika Princip and I are correct, that in those cases where there is a high sec/null sec gate very little extra PvP will be had.

Roll

Haven't dodged anything, as well you know 'by the way'. Gankers would be swarming over this hisec system like piranhas smelling blood; you ought to know that, being an expert on the game. See the swarms in Jita? That 's how your hisec system would be.

As for his failing to respond: your refusal to acknowledge that the game worked fine without JF is reason enough not to press the point. 'None so blind' and all that.


There are no gankers in Jita, at least for freighters. Too high a sec status.

As for ganking in Torrinos, it could be done, it is 0.5 after all. But gankers are not typically going to be doing it unless it is profitable.

And lastly, you didn't think about how the game worked back then. Titans existed. Getting into low sec, warping to a titan and bridging out was one option. There other jump capable ships at the time too such as carriers and rorquals that worked in low sec. Granted you'd need lots of carriers to carrier the same amount of stuff as a freighter, but it could be done. When we lived in Stain, making JF trips down there were problematic. You had to already be in low sec to do it. As such we developed a carrier system for jumping stuff down. So it was not like what you are proposing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#91 - 2013-04-15 06:56:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

And lastly, you didn't think about how the game worked back then. Titans existed. Getting into low sec, warping to a titan and bridging out was one option. There other jump capable ships at the time too such as carriers and rorquals that worked in low sec. Granted you'd need lots of carriers to carrier the same amount of stuff as a freighter, but it could be done. When we lived in Stain, making JF trips down there were problematic. You had to already be in low sec to do it. As such we developed a carrier system for jumping stuff down. So it was not like what you are proposing.

" Getting into low sec, warping to a titan and bridging out was one option. " demonstrates that JD is not necessary in empire space. The 'Getting into low sec' bit demonstrates perfectly that point. As you've shown that the logistics is perfectly viable without JD in empire space, why the continued refusal to accept it's valid? You've just stated that it is.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2013-04-15 20:38:15 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

And lastly, you didn't think about how the game worked back then. Titans existed. Getting into low sec, warping to a titan and bridging out was one option. There other jump capable ships at the time too such as carriers and rorquals that worked in low sec. Granted you'd need lots of carriers to carrier the same amount of stuff as a freighter, but it could be done. When we lived in Stain, making JF trips down there were problematic. You had to already be in low sec to do it. As such we developed a carrier system for jumping stuff down. So it was not like what you are proposing.

" Getting into low sec, warping to a titan and bridging out was one option. " demonstrates that JD is not necessary in empire space. The 'Getting into low sec' bit demonstrates perfectly that point. As you've shown that the logistics is perfectly viable without JD in empire space, why the continued refusal to accept it's valid? You've just stated that it is.


Going into 1 low sec system is one thing, going through several till you reach null is another thing entirely.

Now maybe you have a point if you were to focus on the ubiquity of JFs. I don't think CCP foresaw how many would be privately owned by players...much like Titans and Super Carriers. I think, going by memory, that the in game "lore" had the 4 empires having something like titans in the single digits...definitely no more than double digits. Now some null sec alliances sport dozens if not more. Looks like the list of known titans in game is not being kept up anymore, but the last update had IT alliance have 68 back in 2011 and 164 titans total...I'm sure the number is much higher now.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Fatbear
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-04-15 22:32:11 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

No he didn't. When pressed for further information he failed to respond.
Roll


I didn't fail to respond, try reading back.

My post referred to a time pre-Titans, pre-JFs.

ERHMAHGERD HOW CAN I LIVE WITHOUT TEH JUMP DRIVE?

Well hot diggity, life did exist before Titans, before Jump Freighters.

We ran convoys, CONVOYS of freighters, half a dozen at a time, with 150-200 man combat fleets escorting them, all the way down from S-EVIQ in Tenal, down through Venal, touch of Tribute, and into high sec through Taisy/Nalvula.


Believe me, there was such a thing as viable nullsec long before your beloved jump capabilities exist. And it was a lot more fun than now.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2013-04-16 00:57:04 UTC
Fatbear wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

No he didn't. When pressed for further information he failed to respond.
Roll


I didn't fail to respond, try reading back.

My post referred to a time pre-Titans, pre-JFs.

ERHMAHGERD HOW CAN I LIVE WITHOUT TEH JUMP DRIVE?

Well hot diggity, life did exist before Titans, before Jump Freighters.

We ran convoys, CONVOYS of freighters, half a dozen at a time, with 150-200 man combat fleets escorting them, all the way down from S-EVIQ in Tenal, down through Venal, touch of Tribute, and into high sec through Taisy/Nalvula.


Believe me, there was such a thing as viable nullsec long before your beloved jump capabilities exist. And it was a lot more fun than now.


You think it would work now? The game has changed considerably. Things like fleet vs. gang, new ships, the ubiquity of T2 components and ships. And forget null, just think about taking those freighters nowadays through low sec.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Fatbear
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-04-16 05:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Fatbear
Teckos Pech wrote:

You think it would work now? The game has changed considerably. Things like fleet vs. gang, new ships, the ubiquity of T2 components and ships. And forget null, just think about taking those freighters nowadays through low sec.


Perhaps. But it changed once, doesn't mean it can't change again. T2 wasn't exactly rare back then though, we're talking back when the Vagabond was a ****-train that could just tear through anything, was in common use.

You say Freighters through low sec as if it's such an horrific idea though. You know, people can actually group together, and guard the freighters, and scout far and wide.

One of the things that made it possible 'back then' was again the non-available of jump drives/bridges. Of course we could scout freighters all that way because we could actually scout, knowing what we saw in local was it. There was no cloaky guy waiting to pop a cyno and a fleet would go *poof* on top of us. I remember one amazing convoy when TCF (Tau Ceti Fed) were chasing us down and we were having to leave small groups behind to delay them while the web teams were trying to get the fat freighters moving as fast as possible. We'd have half a dozen scouts in every direction because we knew people would have to approach us conventionally.

You're right to an extent that in its current guise it'd be a slaughter house, particularly with the proliferation of capitals, Titan bridges and the like in lowsec. But the whole point of this post is the discuss the removal of that.
Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
Roadhouse Regulars
#96 - 2013-04-16 07:08:24 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Going into 1 low sec system is one thing, going through several till you reach null is another thing entirely.

Now maybe you have a point if you were to focus on the ubiquity of JFs. I don't think CCP foresaw how many would be privately owned by players...much like Titans and Super Carriers. I think, going by memory, that the in game "lore" had the 4 empires having something like titans in the single digits...definitely no more than double digits. Now some null sec alliances sport dozens if not more. Looks like the list of known titans in game is not being kept up anymore, but the last update had IT alliance have 68 back in 2011 and 164 titans total...I'm sure the number is much higher now.

Roll


Going into 1 low sec system is one thing, going through several till you reach null is another thing entirely.

Hence increased opportunities for PvP; no JF or bridges in empire space.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2013-04-16 07:11:17 UTC
Fatbear wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

You think it would work now? The game has changed considerably. Things like fleet vs. gang, new ships, the ubiquity of T2 components and ships. And forget null, just think about taking those freighters nowadays through low sec.


Perhaps. But it changed once, doesn't mean it can't change again. T2 wasn't exactly rare back then though, we're talking back when the Vagabond was a ****-train that could just tear through anything, was in common use.

You say Freighters through low sec as if it's such an horrific idea though. You know, people can actually group together, and guard the freighters, and scout far and wide.

One of the things that made it possible 'back then' was again the non-available of jump drives/bridges. Of course we could scout freighters all that way because we could actually scout, knowing what we saw in local was it. There was no cloaky guy waiting to pop a cyno and a fleet would go *poof* on top of us. I remember one amazing convoy when TCF (Tau Ceti Fed) were chasing us down and we were having to leave small groups behind to delay them while the web teams were trying to get the fat freighters moving as fast as possible. We'd have half a dozen scouts in every direction because we knew people would have to approach us conventionally.

You're right to an extent that in its current guise it'd be a slaughter house, particularly with the proliferation of capitals, Titan bridges and the like in lowsec. But the whole point of this post is the discuss the removal of that.


Were there fleets of 150 vagabonds back then?

How about 150 tornadoes? Could a fleet stop them from alphaing a freighter?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Fatbear
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-04-16 08:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Fatbear
Teckos Pech wrote:
[quote=Fatbear]

Were there fleets of 150 vagabonds back then?

How about 150 tornadoes? Could a fleet stop them from alphaing a freighter?


You're missing the point that without jump tech, scouting becomes much more viable/reliable and you'd never 'stumble' into a massive alpha fleet as you describe. You had far forward scouts, a lead fleet to clear the way or draw away opponents, and you had a rear guard fleet running delaying actions.

There as endless pvp for the combat fleets and those chasing the convoy. It was a 'do or die' situation once committed.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2013-04-16 10:01:05 UTC
Fatbear wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
[quote=Fatbear]

Were there fleets of 150 vagabonds back then?

How about 150 tornadoes? Could a fleet stop them from alphaing a freighter?


You're missing the point that without jump tech, scouting becomes much more viable/reliable and you'd never 'stumble' into a massive alpha fleet as you describe. You had far forward scouts, a lead fleet to clear the way or draw away opponents, and you had a rear guard fleet running delaying actions.

There as endless pvp for the combat fleets and those chasing the convoy. It was a 'do or die' situation once committed.



And yet, I have never heard freighter escort described as anything other than 'The most boring thing in this entire game' by the people who were around at the time.



You'd still only be hurting people who don't have a highsec-nullsec connection anyway, unless increasing the amounts of neutral and NPC corp freighters getting suicide ganked is really the kind of PVP you were looking for.
Fatbear
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2013-04-16 10:12:06 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


And yet, I have never heard freighter escort described as anything other than 'The most boring thing in this entire game' by the people who were around at the time.



You'd still only be hurting people who don't have a highsec-nullsec connection anyway, unless increasing the amounts of neutral and NPC corp freighters getting suicide ganked is really the kind of PVP you were looking for.


And yet, you're commenting authoratively on something you weren't party to. Fact is we've got a game populated by players who know nothing of the 'before times' when titans and bridges didn't exist.

Believe me, it was ALL more fun than it is now.