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On Dust514 and why it will save Eve (and therefore CCP)

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Cherry Nobyl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-10-16 05:26:56 UTC
i find myself most curious about the environments. so far all that i've seen has been a temperate, or perhaps the barren. what does an oceanic pi installation look like? or plasma? or gaseous? do the environments have effects much like a wormhole system is affected by a pulsar? for instance, would a plasma planet have a positive effect on energy weapons?

/inquiring minds are inquiring.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-10-16 06:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
lol, dustbunnies

they will love us eve players for occasionally tossing them a bone or two


edit: we detest console fps kiddies, we have lore reasons to feel superior to them, we have a headstart of just a few years in organization and accumulation of wealth (which seems to be transferable between games), unless planets are heavily tied into sov we have no reason to care about them, we hate dust players for "stealing" dev time from our precious game and as eve players we are arrogant by nature.
I think it is safe to assume that outside the large alliances/gaming communities the relation between EVE and DUST players will not be characterized by mutual respect.
And all the DUST-only players will be frequently steamrolled by DUST corporations aligned with EVE alliances (who can afford superior equipment in almost unlimited quantities) which will make them love EVE even more.
draconothese
Independant Celestial Enterprises
#23 - 2011-10-16 07:17:28 UTC
just wish they would have kept at it with microsoft ps3 is a bad market for space shooters most of the shooters on it are scifi ones xbox does not have many scifi shooters on it

in all cases i may be just butt hurt that i dont have a ps3 and never will
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-10-16 07:22:07 UTC
How dust will play out.

Dust will be released around the same time next year that Sony announces/leaks the ps4.

Dust will enjoy the first few months of new game popularity that all console games enjoy on their first release.

After that consolers will deem the game to complex for them and go back to what ever flavor of the month shooter that is out at that time.

CCP will have learned why no MMO has been especially popular on console.

CCP will be forced with a tough decision . Abandoned the vision of pi / dust interaction all together, port the game to the pc like they should have in the first place, or port it to whatever new torture system that Sony develops for the ps4.

The problem with dust at its very core, is its being released on console . The game has a lot of promise but by being shoe horned into the limited demographics of the ps3 CCP will find the market to small to support what they had hoped for.

The only saving grace for dust is, if it turns out to be a KILLER APP. Blowing away every console game that has proceeded it. as much as i would love to see that happen . The lack of marketing and propaganda is not there to create the necessary fan base to drive such an adoption rate (basically every gaming magazine should have Dust 514 on its cover with headlines, is this the future of gaming ?? and it should be a recurring topic on the web every week).

all this negativity does not mean the end of dust . because if CCP really wanted, they could port it to pc . Then dust would have a much better chance at being the success that it deserves.
Prince Kobol
#25 - 2011-10-16 07:46:47 UTC
I have a couple of friends who are part of the U4EA which has 100's of clans from around the world consisting of 1000's of players.

After speaking to my friend about Dust514 the majority of the players in his clan and in a few others like the concept of Dust but do not believe that CCP will be able to pull it off.

Also these guys, including my friend, have the attention span of a crystal meth addict with ADHD. They do not dig anything complicated and just want to get in there and kill kill kill.

As soon as a new game is released they jump straight to it, they have zero loyalty.

If a game is riddle with bugs they just ditch it and move on to the next game.

For Dust to succeed it will need to be able to not only attract these types of players but more importantly, keep them.

I am sure in the first few weeks / months of release it will attract a lot of players but if it will struggle to hold on to them if the CCP continue with there half arsed , half finished, bug riddled content that they have been supplying Eve for years now.

These guys will not hang around and will simply move on to the next game which is never usually more the 3 months away.
Adunh Slavy
#26 - 2011-10-16 08:22:26 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

I am sure in the first few weeks / months of release it will attract a lot of players but if it will struggle to hold on to them if the CCP continue with there half arsed , half finished, bug riddled content that they have been supplying Eve for years now.



This is important, it has to work very well and not be as quirky as Eve can be. And what Dustbunnies do has to have meaning in the game world. Despite all the alliance bitching that will come, Dust has to have significant impact on the Eve landscape or the whole selling point, that makes Dust different, won't survive word of mouth.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#27 - 2011-10-16 11:08:26 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

I am sure in the first few weeks / months of release it will attract a lot of players but if it will struggle to hold on to them if the CCP continue with there half arsed , half finished, bug riddled content that they have been supplying Eve for years now.



This is important, it has to work very well and not be as quirky as Eve can be. And what Dustbunnies do has to have meaning in the game world. Despite all the alliance bitching that will come, Dust has to have significant impact on the Eve landscape or the whole selling point, that makes Dust different, won't survive word of mouth.


Very true. My fear is that DUST will be a very much watered down degree of interaction in terms of contesting space. CCP will, of course, promise that they will be iterating upon this and the 'release' is to test the waters and then.....they'll forget all about it.

If DUST is irrelevant to EVE, and EVE is irrelevant to DUST then both will sink without trace.

C.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#28 - 2011-10-16 11:50:15 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

I am sure in the first few weeks / months of release it will attract a lot of players but if it will struggle to hold on to them if the CCP continue with there half arsed , half finished, bug riddled content that they have been supplying Eve for years now.



This is important, it has to work very well and not be as quirky as Eve can be. And what Dustbunnies do has to have meaning in the game world. Despite all the alliance bitching that will come, Dust has to have significant impact on the Eve landscape or the whole selling point, that makes Dust different, won't survive word of mouth.

This can in fact be a double edged sword where you actually need balance. You can't have either game affecting the other to much, but enough to make it interesting.

Imagine if right now someone from another game could take control of your POS with a raiding party and the only way you can really do anything about it is play that game as well, or get someone else in it to fight for you, does that sound inviting?

The concept of the EVE/Dust514 interaction sounds good in theory, but the implementation needs to be done correctly. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Boseo
Azure Horizon
#29 - 2011-10-16 11:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Boseo
Dbars Grinding wrote:
sure if it was for PC or xbox and not shtty ass ps3.


As I don't own any of the current generation consoles, can someone explain to me why everyone keeps saying that PS3's are no good for FPS, just something I would like to get my head around TBH.

Oh and everyone knows PC's beat them all P

Sorry but file “forumsig.GIF” is currently unavailable please come back later…… like in a year or so.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-10-16 12:10:13 UTC
boseo wrote:
As I don't own any of the current generation consoles, can someone explain to me why everyone keeps saying that PS3's are no good for FPS, just something I would like to get my head around TBH.

Sony's PS3 strategy was "release a platform that is so hard/different to program for that developers will take years to grow into it"

On the surface that looks like a pretty clever idea as it practically ensures that newer games will look better than older ones - despite having been written for the same hardware platform.

In practice devs are just not going to invest that amount of optimization effort on games that are not PS3-exclusives.

For them PS3 is just one platform of several and it is a platform that is different enough in concept to make porting games to it a pain. These issues are not something use of a stock abstraction library does solve for the developer - either he puts a lot of effort into his PS3 port or the result will be lackluster.


Halo being Xbox-exclusive is probably an issue, too.
Adunh Slavy
#31 - 2011-10-16 12:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
This can in fact be a double edged sword where you actually need balance. You can't have either game affecting the other to much, but enough to make it interesting.

Imagine if right now someone from another game could take control of your POS with a raiding party and the only way you can really do anything about it is play that game as well, or get someone else in it to fight for you, does that sound inviting?

The concept of the EVE/Dust514 interaction sounds good in theory, but the implementation needs to be done correctly. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.



Yep. My guess is there will be two control elements, the TCU and some TCU link/power/supply/anchor blah blah on a planet, you have to have both to take a system. If it is just one, then Eve or Dust won't matter, but if you have to have both, then both matter.

Hopefully it is not just as simple as that, maybe each habitable planet has to have some switch flipped as well, plus the TCU things, so there is a multi-phased buld up. While feets are going after the SBUs, grunts aer going after the habitable planets, then both team up on some sort of linked TCU assault.

If dustbunnies can be bombed, and perhaps only from the warp in location on a planet, and that they can only take a planet while an SBU is being attacked, then maybe fleets will need to split up some too.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Prince Kobol
#32 - 2011-10-16 13:01:03 UTC
Another problem I can see is if you can not play Dust without having an corp/alliance in Eve.

If for example we are able to bomb dustbunnies out of extinction at random and they have no way of fighting back then Dust will fail.

I mean this Eve, a game were people love griefing those who cant fight back so imagine what it would be like for those playing dust would be.

Who is going to invest in a game where you to have a presence in another game to have a chance to survive.

It will essentially be to play Dust not only will you have pay for that game but you will also have to pay for another game to stand a chance.

Yes you can work with corps/alliances in Eve so you don't have to purchase Eve but considering Eve is based on the theme of "Do not trust anybody" can't see that working to well.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#33 - 2011-10-16 13:26:42 UTC
Joseph Dreadloch wrote:
Steveir wrote:
Well the tie in deal with Sony could prove to be a clever plan. Sony could promote this as The Game to play.


Sony is developing Planetside 2, a direct competitor to DUST514.


Saying planetside 2 is competeing with dust is like saying eve is competing with perpetuum, they are technically similar but sony have the experience to make theirs work.

Planetside 2 will dwarf dust, people who want a persistant shooter want to shape their world not play a series of instanced and disjointed fights as someone elses *****
Ascendant Sean
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-10-16 13:32:21 UTC
boseo wrote:
As I don't own any of the current generation consoles, can someone explain to me why everyone keeps saying that PS3's are no good for FPS, just something I would like to get my head around TBH.


My view? Xbox has a trigger on the controller, PS3 has an analogue shoulder tab to pull. Slight difference, but I know which I prefer.

And I believe Halo 4 is forthcoming which, while an Xbox exclusive, will effectively tie up the sci-fi FPS market not already taken by Planetside 2.
Boseo
Azure Horizon
#35 - 2011-10-16 13:32:28 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

If for example we are able to bomb dustbunnies out of extinction at random and they have no way of fighting back then Dust will fail.

I mean this Eve, a game were people love griefing those who cant fight back so imagine what it would be like for those playing dust would be.



BTW it has been said that if we can shoot them they can shoot back, as that question was asked after This Video (the bit from 1:55)

Sorry but file “forumsig.GIF” is currently unavailable please come back later…… like in a year or so.
Astor Daeoli
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#36 - 2011-10-16 13:36:19 UTC
Joseph Dreadloch wrote:
DUST 514 is going to sink CCP, it will not compete in the world of console shooters. It will have a population of a couple thousand players who happen to be EVE players who own a PS3.

What happens to DUST 514 and EVE a year after its launch, when BF5 and CoD13 launch?


You make a good point. By the time Dust is out I will need to supplement my mandatory minimum two EVE accounts with an additional purchase of a PS4 to play dust on. Hm...to buy the PS4 or not to buy the PS4. That is the question.

The funny thing is I hate CCP's Planet-vile, and I have no interest in running any planets; however I do like a bit of FPS. Unfortunately for me, my FPSing is done on my existing Xbox, dohWhat?

I wonder if the type of EVE player that likes to spend hours a day on Planet-vile would like to spend hours defending their farms on a PS4 FPS?
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#37 - 2011-10-16 13:57:36 UTC
Mal Mandrake wrote:
Each and every Dust purchase becomes a GIANT advertisement for Eve online.

At least a portion of Dust players will become curious about this mysterious Eve game for the computer. Some players may find that they want to try giving the orders instead of taking them. This will cause an influx of new players to Eve. Conversely there will be an influx of Eve players going to Dust. Muahahaha on CCP's part. Genius!


This would have some logic to it, except for the following reasons:

1) Dust will be free-to-play and therefore has no revenue for CCP
2) It's only on 1 platform, alienating the rest of the potential gamers
3) Why would a PS3 owner suddenly decide to purchase a PC or MAC to play one game? That's a lot of investment, dontcha think?
4) How long until one of 5,000 + member alliances decide to infiltrate some PS3 owners forums and find out when and where they will be 'playing' Dust - and nuke them from orbit? Two weeks? Heck, someone could even pay mercenaries in EVE to do it. Would be kind of ironic that PS3 players would be kicked in the teeth by the right-click of a mouse...
5) CCP marketing department
6) Lack of funds.

I wish CCP all the best, but it's going to be tough.

This space for rent.
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#38 - 2011-10-16 14:34:53 UTC
dust has a lot of potential. there is a lot of people on the ps3 networks to pull from.

truth be told, what will really hurt DUST is actually EVE players. more specially, eve SOV holders. if fighting in the 0.0 is "end game" in DUST, it will be a huge failure because around 75% of eve is controlled by blues. they plan on making it 90% by the time they are done. DUST players aren't going to want to grind up the fights on empire planets when there's no real end game.
Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#39 - 2011-10-16 15:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiram Alexander
Mal Mandrake wrote:
I believe CCP has an excellent plan for the future of Eve in conjunction with Dust 514.

Dust 514 will be a first-person shooter for the PS3. It is essentially a game about mercenaries. We as Eve players will be able to create contracts with Dust players to either a.) attack planet installations, or b.) defend planet installation (There may be other uses, but this is as far as I have gone so far.)

What installations are we talking about? Well PI of course.

I wish this had been a troll, but I actually think you might be serious. I have been reasonably impressed by CCP's apparent return to 'the real world' recently, but the cynic in me says that you are going to be horribly disappointed by CCP very, very soon -- your expectations are totally sky-high, and that's the problem (as I see it).

"CCP has an excellent plan for the future of Eve in conjunction with Dust 514. " -- Again, perhaps I'm just being cynical, but what happened exactly, to the excellent plan for PI, the excellent plan for sovereignty, and almost everything else that was recently planned?

Y'know, there's so much in your post to be cynical about, I'm just going to stop, and address these last two points...

Mal Mandrake wrote:
...Whenever we set up a new planet with PI we are essentially creating another "level" for Dust players to play on.

Think about how many planets with PI are spread throughout the galaxy right now? Through our efforts we will have created an endless amount of levels for Dust players to fight on.

For the love of God, please stop. Think about console games for one minute. Think about how much work and collaborative effort goes into designing, testing, and balancing each and every 'zone' or level - not to mention, testing them for 'fun'. Not one PI producer in this game will ever "create a level", as you've phrased it.

"Through our efforts we will have created an endless amount of levels for Dust players to fight on." -- No we haven't.

That job will be left to level designers, coders, and artists, and if I were to judge how long that'd take, by the length of time it's taken to make 4 CQ's, well...

Let's put it this way -- why have the Dust previews, so far, all revolved around a single section of a single map?

Mal Mandrake wrote:
I am guessing that corporations between Dust and Eve will be linked (as in the same corp) which would mean you can fatten your Eve wallet by doing some assault missions in Dust. (This is an excellent opportunity to use your children as ISK farmers)

I don't think any Dust-bunnies are going to be 'fattening' Eve wallets - ever... Please look at the game model again, and realise how much Isk they'll need to stay competitive, re: vehicles, etc.

As for training Isk farmers, where exactly are we supposed to find kids that stupid? If I asked my daughter to play a game for weeks, then give me all 'her stuff', she'd slap me good-lookin'...

I really hope that Dust becomes the "KILLER APP" that someone above me mentioned -- because, if it isn't, it's absolutely ******. I know some PS3 owners - they know about Dust 514 - but Planetside 2 is all they go on about...

Once CCP genuinely, and honestly, sits down to address the root causes of why:

Sovereignty, isn't a "KILLER APP", why...
Faction Warfare, isn't a "KILLER APP", and why...
PI, as it stands, isn't a "KILLER APP", then... and only then (in my opinion) will Dust 514 stand a chance of being good enough.
Mal Mandrake
Space Goat Likes it Rough
#40 - 2011-10-16 21:58:46 UTC
Cherry Nobyl wrote:
i find myself most curious about the environments. so far all that i've seen has been a temperate, or perhaps the barren. what does an oceanic pi installation look like? or plasma? or gaseous? do the environments have effects much like a wormhole system is affected by a pulsar? for instance, would a plasma planet have a positive effect on energy weapons?

/inquiring minds are inquiring.


I'm envisioning a plant like the Storm planet the Clones were made on in Star Wars.