These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Should CCP Remove Fon Revedhort from the CSM Election?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-03-29 00:46:26 UTC
duckmonster wrote:
Do you even realize how disgusting it is quoting this poem in defense of a neo n azi?
In the 1950s, many people would have said the same thing about communists. Freedom is to be protected, whether you find it repugnant or not.
duckmonster
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-03-29 00:47:53 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
I actually hope he gets elected. The gaming press will go hog wild.


Yup.

And CCP would be fooling themselves if they don't think some of us would be annoyed enough to assert our consumer rights to a nazi free envioronment via the media.
duckmonster
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-03-29 00:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: duckmonster
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
duckmonster wrote:
Do you even realize how disgusting it is quoting this poem in defense of a neo n azi?
In the 1950s, many people would have said the same thing about communists. Freedom is to be protected, whether you find it repugnant or not.


Another face-palmer for reddit.txt
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#24 - 2013-03-29 00:50:11 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
duckmonster wrote:
Do you even realize how disgusting it is quoting this poem in defense of a neo n azi?
In the 1950s, many people would have said the same thing about communists. Freedom is to be protected, whether you find it repugnant or not.


Would you say that people should have the freedom to oppress the freedom of others?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#25 - 2013-03-29 00:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
duckmonster wrote:
Do you even realize how disgusting it is quoting this poem in defense of a neo n azi?
In the 1950s, many people would have said the same thing about communists. Freedom is to be protected, whether you find it repugnant or not.




I would normally agree, but I draw the freedom of speech line at hate speech and racism. Call me un-American, I don''t care.

And surpressing and pointing out those that hate and say so already, is enlightenment of others and not hate speech.

Pointing out and attempting to subdue the bad qualities in others who initiate the hatred does not assign that quality to oneself.

Saying otherwise is just using a semantic and rhetorical fantasy to justify anything one wants to justify.



Edit: Even in San Francisco we had those nudists last year who went to court over a city ordinance banning nudity that was enacted because of them.

Their claim was being nude in public was a matter of freedom of speech and expression.

They lost in court as the judge ruled that simply being nude in public was just simply being nude and not saying or expressing anything.

Point is.....there ARE lines.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Vampy bat
Prussia Group
#26 - 2013-03-29 00:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Vampy bat
duckmonster wrote:


Do you actually think Asian, black , jewish, Q ueer (yes, that word is censored on this forum for some blatantly offensive reason), and other minorities will feel safe going to the CSM knowing that some creep will be there spouting an ideology that would see them and their families slaughtered IRL? Do you think players will be happy knowing that CCP will be spending our subscription money flying about a known neo-naz i , who might not even be allowed to enter the country on account of his public pronouncements (He would be arrested at the airport where I live). is this the message we want to send?


That's actually a good point that had not yet occurred to me. What is this Fon is elected and some other Russian also gets in the final 14. Only the other Russian is only Russian in legal terms but an ethnic Kazakh, or Tajik or from any other of over 100 different ethnic groups that are equally recognized as Russian nationals but have their own history, culture and traditions and would fall into Fon's group of inferior beings. Or even some ethnic Russian who happens to be overtly gay.

Is CCP willing to deal with the wide range of consequences that could result out of Fon getting to know not only that other Russian's name, but his face, where he lives and so on should they ever be in the same room during one of the summits?
Richard Bong
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-03-29 00:55:51 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
duckmonster wrote:
Do you even realize how disgusting it is quoting this poem in defense of a neo n azi?
In the 1950s, many people would have said the same thing about communists. Freedom is to be protected, whether you find it repugnant or not.



There has to be a way to post this to SRS.

[ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting!
duckmonster
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-03-29 00:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: duckmonster
Considering the fact that Russian Neo-nazis have been responsible for countless murders, beatings , stabbings, and so on, then definately the safety of other CSS reps it is a genuine concern.

I have no idea why the movement has been so powerful in russia. You'd think the nazis mass slaughter of russian in WW-II would make the movement irrelevnt there, but apparently not. People are bizare sometimes.
Frying Doom
#29 - 2013-03-29 00:59:24 UTC
Crushing someones human rights because they believe differently to you is exactly why we have human rights. There really is no but at all even hate filled scum deserve those rights and if we chose to remove them, how are we any better than they?

Do I think this guy should be on the CSM, not bloody likely, but so far he has not received a ban so is eligible for the CSM.

If CCP don't want to have him on the CSM all they have to do is give him a 30 day ban for what he says or writes, simple.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
duckmonster
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-03-29 01:00:59 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Crushing someones human rights because they believe differently to you is exactly why we have human rights. There really is no but at all even hate filled scum deserve those rights and if we chose to remove them, how are we any better than they?

Do I think this guy should be on the CSM, not bloody likely, but so far he has not received a ban so is eligible for the CSM.

If CCP don't want to have him on the CSM all they have to do is give him a 30 day ban for what he says or writes, simple.


Is rights for fascists a bit like "state rights"?
Womyn Power
Broski Bad End
#31 - 2013-03-29 01:02:15 UTC
duckmonster wrote:
Considering the fact that Russian Neo-***** have been responsible for countless murders, beatings , stabbings, and so on, then definately the safety of other CSS reps it is a genuine concern.

I have no idea why the movement has been so powerful in russia. You'd think the ***** mass slaughter of russian in WW-II would make the movement irrelevnt there, but apparently not. People are bizare sometimes.


hats off m8
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#32 - 2013-03-29 01:03:13 UTC
This thread is fantastic

#Fon2013
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#33 - 2013-03-29 01:03:40 UTC
duckmonster wrote:


Is rights for fascists a bit like "state rights"?



Oh God, is that ever a boondoggle. Because of it, as a gay man, I basically have to deal with 50 different Americas depending on where I am. Can get married in Washington state, can be thrown out of an apartment and a job in Mississippi.......

Dangerous, and idiotic.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-29 01:04:18 UTC
Heimdallofasgard wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
duckmonster wrote:
Do you even realize how disgusting it is quoting this poem in defense of a neo n azi?
In the 1950s, many people would have said the same thing about communists. Freedom is to be protected, whether you find it repugnant or not.
Would you say that people should have the freedom to oppress the freedom of others?
Show me where Fons is oppressing our freedom.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-03-29 01:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
duckmonster wrote:
Considering the fact that Russian Neo-***** have been responsible for countless murders, beatings , stabbings, and so on, then definately the safety of other CSS reps it is a genuine concern.
Show me where Fons is guilty of any of these things?

We've labelled him a Neo-Nazi. I don't believe he's applied the label to himself. I'd call him an ultraconservative nationalist. He'd be as at home in Arizona as he's apparently at home in Russia. He's definitely a racist though. Repugnant, yes, criminal, no.
Amarrius Ibn Pontificus
Legion Air
#36 - 2013-03-29 01:07:45 UTC
Vampy bat wrote:
duckmonster wrote:


Do you actually think Asian, black , jewish, Q ueer (yes, that word is censored on this forum for some blatantly offensive reason), and other minorities will feel safe going to the CSM knowing that some creep will be there spouting an ideology that would see them and their families slaughtered IRL? Do you think players will be happy knowing that CCP will be spending our subscription money flying about a known neo-naz i , who might not even be allowed to enter the country on account of his public pronouncements (He would be arrested at the airport where I live). is this the message we want to send?


That's actually a good point that had not yet occurred to me. What is this Fon is elected and some other Russian also gets in the final 14. Only the other Russian is only Russian in legal terms but an ethnic Kazakh, or Tajik or from any other of over 100 different ethnic groups that are equally recognized as Russian nationals but have their own history, culture and traditions and would fall into Fon's group of inferior beings. Or even some ethnic Russian who happens to be overtly gay.

Is CCP willing to deal with the wide range of consequences that could result out of Fon getting to know not only that other Russian's name, but his face, where he lives and so on should they ever be in the same room during one of the summits?


Talk about emergent gameplay. Welcome to emergent life endagerment 2013, brought to you by Crowd Control Productions. Spot the irony?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#37 - 2013-03-29 01:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
duckmonster wrote:
Considering the fact that Russian Neo-***** have been responsible for countless murders, beatings , stabbings, and so on, then definately the safety of other CSS reps it is a genuine concern.
Show me where Fons is guilty of any of these things?

We've labelled him a Neo-****. I don't believe he's applied the label to himself. I'd call him an ultraconservative nationalist. He'd be as at home in Arizona as he's apparently at home in Russia.



Yes he has applied the label to himself. Listen to that podcast. And he does not deny it when confronted by the interviewer.


edit: one thing is for sure, we will remember your stance on this.

Was it really worth it going down in EVE history in this manner ??

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-03-29 01:08:31 UTC
Hey Poetic, you're Canadian, right? What's your thoughts on how the Canadian Government oppressed the freedoms of Ernst Zundel?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-03-29 01:09:35 UTC
Amarrius Ibn Pontificus wrote:
Vampy bat wrote:
duckmonster wrote:
Do you actually think Asian, black , jewish, Q ueer (yes, that word is censored on this forum for some blatantly offensive reason), and other minorities will feel safe going to the CSM knowing that some creep will be there spouting an ideology that would see them and their families slaughtered IRL? Do you think players will be happy knowing that CCP will be spending our subscription money flying about a known neo-naz i , who might not even be allowed to enter the country on account of his public pronouncements (He would be arrested at the airport where I live). is this the message we want to send?


That's actually a good point that had not yet occurred to me. What is this Fon is elected and some other Russian also gets in the final 14. Only the other Russian is only Russian in legal terms but an ethnic Kazakh, or Tajik or from any other of over 100 different ethnic groups that are equally recognized as Russian nationals but have their own history, culture and traditions and would fall into Fon's group of inferior beings. Or even some ethnic Russian who happens to be overtly gay.

Is CCP willing to deal with the wide range of consequences that could result out of Fon getting to know not only that other Russian's name, but his face, where he lives and so on should they ever be in the same room during one of the summits?
Talk about emergent gameplay. Welcome to emergent life endagerment 2013, brought to you by Crowd Control Productions. Spot the irony?
So, now you're assuming Fons is a murderous criminal?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-03-29 01:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Snow Axe wrote:
Hey Poetic, you're Canadian, right? What's your thoughts on how the Canadian Government oppressed the freedoms of Ernst Zundel?
Wrong.

Our freedom of speech does not extend to hate speech. Not much to be done about it, since our Supreme Court has upheld the notion that hate speech is not protected.