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Crime & Punishment

 
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What's the break point for ganking for profit?
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Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-03-28 17:29:18 UTC
After playing in eft I was wondering what the break point of EHP vs potential module drops for profit was? Specifically I was looking at fitting a CN invulnerability field to a battleship, but at 500m it seems like an expensive module that would attract gankers.

So how much EHP does it take to discourage 500m in potential drop loot?
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#2 - 2013-03-28 17:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Backfyre
In this forum, the answer is 12,000 EHP...

In a different forum, somebody might guess no less than 75,000 for 50% certainty but nothing is truly dissuasive when shinies are to be had. 125,000 EHP would give you around 90% certainty of not getting ganked.

Others are now running locator agents on your character...
ErrorRon
Turbo-Encabulator LLC
#3 - 2013-03-28 17:59:24 UTC
Tears have no number.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtItWL6GfSM CCP Gargant -  Dev of my heart.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-03-28 18:01:38 UTC
...and they'll find an orca pilot fit with tech II shield mods, a dc II, and reinforced bulkhead II. Probably sitting next to an NPC station.

I'll save you the effort of the locator agent, I'm in Khanid space. I think currently Khanid Prime. Khanid works station, but I normally orbit khanid innovations.

Ers isn't really a forum alt, it's actually my oldest/highest SP character, but I did what so many do and made a combat alt so I could avoid having all the extra SP's when paying clone costs. I think the only faction module that Ers has equipped on a ship in the last year is a faction tracking link on a scim.

But I think it's a fair question. If the boat is sporting 100k EHP with a 500m module it's probably a lot less attractive than a 30k EHP ship sporting the same module. Just wondering if any of the gankers are willing to share their break point, especially considering they're probably going to have to use alpha boats instead of cheap catalysts on a mobile, not afk mission boat.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-03-28 18:11:09 UTC
A basic way to look at it, 10k ehp per tornado per shot. Figure out how many shots the nado will get based on the sec of the system. From there how many Nados and therefore how much ISK the gank will cost.

If the value of your drop-able modules and cargo is more than double the cost of the tornados, you are at a high risk of getting ganked.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#6 - 2013-03-28 18:15:15 UTC
The numbers really vary with too many factors, including "bored of waiting for a juicy target" and whether or not you jump to 0.

The numbers I gave you are pulled from a combination of data sources and are lower bounds. After a talos is popped by CONCORD and the wreck is looted and salvaged, it is about a 75M net loss to the ganker. Looking at ganker kills on battleclinic shows a Talos can put out 20,000 to 30,000 damage in a 0.5 system before being concorded. At a 500M possible drop and assuming typical gankers will risk half that says they will risk 3 talons which is on average 75,000 EHP. If they use destroyers, the needed EHP goes up.

There is plenty of data on battleclinic to run the numbers.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-03-28 18:29:27 UTC
Are Talos the alpha boats of choice? For some reason I thought it was the arty tornado.

/learn something new every day
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#8 - 2013-03-28 18:55:58 UTC
Just google "battleclinic obelisk was destroyed" and spend some time browsing.

I have seen tornados, talos, dominix, and brutix all averaging around 25k damage in a 0.5 system.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-03-28 19:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
Good info Backfyre. I wasn't sure the best way to search through those killmails, and that helped me out.

That 75m/30k EHP thresh hold seems like a good number, at least if it's in cargo. If it's equipped I'm figuring about a half drop rate, so maybe 150m/30k EHP? Probably need a bit more of a buffer to avoid tear farmers, but that seems like a good number to investigate.

Thanks for the thoughts. o/
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#10 - 2013-03-29 07:48:23 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Good info Backfyre. I wasn't sure the best way to search through those killmails, and that helped me out.

That 75m/30k EHP thresh hold seems like a good number, at least if it's in cargo. If it's equipped I'm figuring about a half drop rate, so maybe 150m/30k EHP? Probably need a bit more of a buffer to avoid tear farmers, but that seems like a good number to investigate.

Thanks for the thoughts. o/


actually, i don't think that applies to you. as long as you don't go afk in your pimped bs, you WILL activate and propably overheat your hardeners/boosters etc. and its a bit difficult bumping you to keep from docking.

a freighter on the other hand, cant do anything so a high dps ship is used.

in your case, expect alpha ships.

Also i wouldn't worry for one mod. may be if all your mids are pimped, then yeah, but one CN invul? not worth the effort imo.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-03-29 19:39:31 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
After playing in eft I was wondering what the break point of EHP vs potential module drops for profit was? Specifically I was looking at fitting a CN invulnerability field to a battleship, but at 500m it seems like an expensive module that would attract gankers.

So how much EHP does it take to discourage 500m in potential drop loot?


EHP means nothing if you're running an active tank.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-03-29 19:42:56 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
After playing in eft I was wondering what the break point of EHP vs potential module drops for profit was? Specifically I was looking at fitting a CN invulnerability field to a battleship, but at 500m it seems like an expensive module that would attract gankers.

So how much EHP does it take to discourage 500m in potential drop loot?


EHP means nothing if you're running an active tank.


What is...I don't even...

Can someone translate to me what I'm not understanding from this post?
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#13 - 2013-03-30 00:18:48 UTC
He may just be saying that gankers usually catch people with their modules, like the CN Invul field, inactive. With modules on, you could be at 100k EHP. Off, you're well below that.
Stonkeep
Osmanli Empire
#14 - 2013-03-30 15:06:05 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
After playing in eft I was wondering what the break point of EHP vs potential module drops for profit was? Specifically I was looking at fitting a CN invulnerability field to a battleship, but at 500m it seems like an expensive module that would attract gankers.

So how much EHP does it take to discourage 500m in potential drop loot?


EHP means nothing if you're running an active tank.


What is...I don't even...

Can someone translate to me what I'm not understanding from this post?


He says that with your modules turned on you will not or most likely cannot be ganked. Simple.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#15 - 2013-03-31 01:26:46 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
After playing in eft I was wondering what the break point of EHP vs potential module drops for profit was? Specifically I was looking at fitting a CN invulnerability field to a battleship, but at 500m it seems like an expensive module that would attract gankers.

So how much EHP does it take to discourage 500m in potential drop loot?


EHP means nothing if you're running an active tank.


What is...I don't even...

Can someone translate to me what I'm not understanding from this post?


An example would be easier. Read this.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-03-31 02:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Stonkeep wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
After playing in eft I was wondering what the break point of EHP vs potential module drops for profit was? Specifically I was looking at fitting a CN invulnerability field to a battleship, but at 500m it seems like an expensive module that would attract gankers.

So how much EHP does it take to discourage 500m in potential drop loot?


EHP means nothing if you're running an active tank.


What is...I don't even...

Can someone translate to me what I'm not understanding from this post?


He says that with your modules turned on you will not or most likely cannot be ganked. Simple.


On the contrary active tanked ships are the easiest to gank, but by all means OP, continue believing otherwise. Also a battleship with a CN invuln equipped is instantly gank worthy.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-03-31 02:14:44 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Stonkeep wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
After playing in eft I was wondering what the break point of EHP vs potential module drops for profit was? Specifically I was looking at fitting a CN invulnerability field to a battleship, but at 500m it seems like an expensive module that would attract gankers.

So how much EHP does it take to discourage 500m in potential drop loot?


EHP means nothing if you're running an active tank.


What is...I don't even...

Can someone translate to me what I'm not understanding from this post?


He says that with your modules turned on you will not or most likely cannot be ganked. Simple.


On the contrary active tanked ships are the easiest to gank, but by all means OP, continue believing otherwise. Also a battleship with a CN invuln equipped is instantly gank worthy.


I don't recall saying that active tanked ships were harder to gank. In fact, I don't recall saying anything about an active or passive setup in this thread.

I only asked the question because EHP is what you have to bust through to get a gank, so the comment didn't make sense to me. A better, more complete comment would be if your module isn't running it doesn't help your EHP.