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CSM Political Views?

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Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#1 - 2013-03-28 14:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Hurt
Totally hypothetical question, but at what level of absolutely reprehensible personal views held by a CSM candidate would CCP say "thats it, you can't run". Like, (again, hypothetically) if an honest-to-God Neo-Nazi were running for CSM, would CCP bar them from the election? Allowing them to run is a tacit endorsement of their views, IMHO.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2013-03-28 14:30:07 UTC
Isn't what they think about the game, balance and being able to keep to the NDA, the applicable part here?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#3 - 2013-03-28 14:32:24 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Isn't what they think about the game, balance and being able to keep to the NDA, the applicable part here?


Yes that is applicable, but if someone actually adheres to an ideology that espouses the extermination or enslavement of large swathes of humanity, surely that would affect their ability to work with other people (one of the Goon candidates is Jewish, for example. see: "The Jewbal").
Frying Doom
#4 - 2013-03-28 14:37:47 UTC
As the servers and these forums are held in England a strong case could be made for the inforcement of EU law in regards to anti-discrimination

So

Handbook on European non-discrimination law wrote:

3.5.2.
Political participation: freedom of expression, assembly and association, and free elections
one of the main goals of the Council of Europe is the promotion of democracy.
This is reflected in many of the rights in the ECHR which facilitate the promotion
of political participation. While EU law confers a limited range of rights in this
respect (in particular the right for EU nationals to vote in municipal elections and
European parliament elections), the ECHR contains broader guarantees creating not
only a right to vote and stand in elections, but also flanking rights of freedom of
expression and the right to freedom of assembly and association.

Example: in the case of Bączkowski and Others v. Poland, discussed above, the
refusal of permission to hold a march to raise awareness about sexual orientation discrimination, coupled with publicly made homophobic remarks of the mayor, amounted to a violation of the right to freedom of assembly (Article 11)
together with Article 14.

The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection
for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level
of protection against interference.


So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#5 - 2013-03-28 14:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Isn't what they think about the game, balance and being able to keep to the NDA, the applicable part here?


Yes that is applicable, but if someone actually adheres to an ideology that espouses the extermination or enslavement of large swathes of humanity, surely that would affect their ability to work with other people (one of the Goon candidates is Jewish, for example. see: "The Jewbal").
Then that would be a personal issue CCP would deal with, if it arose.

I'm sure that Malcanis has views on things I disagree with, in regards to real life. But the CSM is about the game and it's balance. It's a link for the players to the devs, to allow the venting of issues. Their RL political views are irrelevant. If that ever changes so that issues arise in any way in the term, CCP would deal with it.

Not sure what your agenda here is TBH, other than getting to be able to post bad names.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-03-28 14:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Flidais Asagiri
So you want to discriminate against X group for what they believe? (nazi's in your example.)

Gee you sound about as tolerant as the nazi's were.


edit: lol, forum blocks ***i... wow, maybe your onto something
Verlai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-03-28 14:40:23 UTC
What a ridiculous question, since there's no way any company interested in engaging in international business would be stupid enough to openly associate themselves with an avowed racist. Why, they'd have to be downright incompetent if they maintained such a relationship and hoped to keep up a good public image!

I highly doubt CCP would be idiotic enough to even tacitly support such a person, since there's no way they're moronic enough to permit a CSM member with such views to publicly represent them. What an unusual and unprompted question.
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#8 - 2013-03-28 14:41:45 UTC
Verlai wrote:
What a ridiculous question, since there's no way any company interested in engaging in international business would be stupid enough to openly associate themselves with an avowed racist. Why, they'd have to be downright incompetent if they maintained such a relationship and hoped to keep up a good public image!

I highly doubt CCP would be idiotic enough to even tacitly support such a person, since there's no way they're moronic enough to permit a CSM member with such views to publicly represent them. What an unusual and unprompted question.


Verlai I'm not sure if you're joking or not (you might be), but that is actually exactly what CCP is doing!
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-03-28 14:42:48 UTC
The CSM are meant to embody the spirit of the community in its best possible light.

Members of the CSM are supposed to uphold the various codes of conduct that CCP has in place for different things: the game itself, the forums, and any physical event locations.

Any member of the CSM that fails to uphold these values can be removed (as an example, The Mittani for his lapse of judgement and decorum at a panel at fanfest) so I would expect CCP to use that as the baseline in determining the suitability of a candidate.

I don't think that CCP does an extensive background check of candidates behaviour even if they have public blogs or, perhaps, CCP gives candidates a "blank slate" to which to start with once they announce their candidacy.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#10 - 2013-03-28 15:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Frying Doom wrote:


Handbook on European non-discrimination law wrote:

3.5.2.
Political participation: freedom of expression, assembly and association, and free elections
one of the main goals of the Council of Europe is the promotion of democracy.
This is reflected in many of the rights in the ECHR which facilitate the promotion
of political participation. While EU law confers a limited range of rights in this
respect (in particular the right for EU nationals to vote in municipal elections and
European parliament elections), the ECHR contains broader guarantees creating not
only a right to vote and stand in elections, but also flanking rights of freedom of
expression and the right to freedom of assembly and association.

Example: in the case of Bączkowski and Others v. Poland, discussed above, the
refusal of permission to hold a march to raise awareness about sexual orientation discrimination, coupled with publicly made homophobic remarks of the mayor, amounted to a violation of the right to freedom of assembly (Article 11)
together with Article 14.

The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection
for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level
of protection against interference.


So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing.


If that is true about EU & political beliefs how come you can still get thrown in jail in Germany for giving the old Hitlergruß salute?

EDIT: how come in the OP Neo-NAZI is not censored & in mine it is?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#11 - 2013-03-28 16:12:35 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


Handbook on European non-discrimination law wrote:

3.5.2.
Political participation: freedom of expression, assembly and association, and free elections
one of the main goals of the Council of Europe is the promotion of democracy.
This is reflected in many of the rights in the ECHR which facilitate the promotion
of political participation. While EU law confers a limited range of rights in this
respect (in particular the right for EU nationals to vote in municipal elections and
European parliament elections), the ECHR contains broader guarantees creating not
only a right to vote and stand in elections, but also flanking rights of freedom of
expression and the right to freedom of assembly and association.

Example: in the case of Bączkowski and Others v. Poland, discussed above, the
refusal of permission to hold a march to raise awareness about sexual orientation discrimination, coupled with publicly made homophobic remarks of the mayor, amounted to a violation of the right to freedom of assembly (Article 11)
together with Article 14.

The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection
for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level
of protection against interference.


So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing.


If that is true about EU & political beliefs how come you can still get thrown in jail in Germany for giving the old Hitlergruß salute?

EDIT: how come in the OP Neo-**** is not censored & in mine it is?

Because the law he is quoting specificly refers to government intervention in political office.

Basically, he's ~internet lawyering~ and getting it wrong.

For instance, in the UK, students have been expelled for giving the Hitler salute in schools. Surely not, according to Frying Doom!

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#12 - 2013-03-28 16:15:08 UTC
Oh wait...Thomas Hurt thread.. Nevermind.




☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#13 - 2013-03-28 16:45:21 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Oh wait...Thomas Hurt thread.. Nevermind.


Pretty much this.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#14 - 2013-03-28 16:47:34 UTC
It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Nazi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is "Roll Weak troll thread is weak 0/10"
Grayson Cole
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-03-28 16:49:28 UTC
There are several null bears in the candidate pool, and most of them will get "elected".

Isn't that enough?

.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#16 - 2013-03-28 16:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Thomas Hurt wrote:
It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Nazi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is "Roll Weak troll thread is weak 0/10"



If cyber bullies who get banned from the game for their antics are still allowed to run, why not a Neo-Nazi?

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#17 - 2013-03-28 16:52:09 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Nazi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is "Roll Weak troll thread is weak 0/10"


No one posted this. Whether it be medications youre on or need to be on, Stop.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#18 - 2013-03-28 16:52:15 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
It boggles the mind that someone can re post a thread several times specifically designed to troll but yet i have not been banned from posting"


FYP

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#19 - 2013-03-28 16:56:23 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Thomas Hurt wrote:
It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Nazi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is "Roll Weak troll thread is weak 0/10"



If cyber bullies who get banned from the game for their antics are still allowed to run, why not a Neo-****?


That was completely different, and you know it. The Mittani was utilizing a Zen technique wherein the instructor compels the student to think deeply on the subject of death and seriously consider suicide; the appearance of the yawning void before them and the contemplation of annihilation will shake the experiencer out of any suicide ideation they may hold, and allow them to relate more healthily to life and the inevitability of death...
Sarmatiko
#20 - 2013-03-28 16:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Thomas Hurt wrote:
one of the Goon candidates is Jewish, for example. see: "The Jewbal").

Yet it's totally acceptable to use "N-word" and "jewbal" everywhere, from local chat to GSF CEO update, if you are goon.
Racism is cool and fun if it comes from fellow corp mate, isn't it?

Also, I thought we electing Council of Stellar Management, not Goonswarm Meet and Greet Annual Pub Crawl Party.


ps:

The Mittani wrote:
Quote:

Hey Mittani, more of a question of ethics in EVE than mechanics of EVE which I think the CSM needs to tackle.

What are you going to do about the general level of racism or at least casual use of racist language in EVE? Its now become socially acceptable in EVE to be derogatory towards Jews and its starting to become acceptable to racially abuse people and use derogatory racist language in general, in game chat without any sort of punishment.

It certainly doesn't do much for the image of the game when fleets of people in Null Sec are being asked by the FC to type "N" then "igger" in local chat during fleet fights, in order to circumvent the chat usage policy of CCP. No names of any sort mentioned but I don't think I need to.

I do think CSM 6 was the best CSM yet and certainly enjoyed the fruits of it but I don't think the level of racist language (and anti-semetic) by players in public channels (well any channels but each to their own) does anything for the game, CCP or the players. It certainly made me question which backwards thinking people I'm playing EVE with.

The CSM isn't CCP's cop, any more than an alliance leader is an unpaid GM. The playerbase of eve is almost comically racist and misogynistic, from an American perspective. In Europe it's apparently common and uncontroversial to speak openly of 'Jews', not to mention the Scandinavian lack of sensitivity on Things Racial. Because EVE is an international game you end up with a lot of delicate sensibilities being rubbed the wrong way.

Example: Americans think nothing of slagging on Germans for that whole World War 2 thing, but ~how dare~ you mention Germany in front of a German EVE player. An American will get offended at a racist joke that at Dutchman won't even blink at, between Zwarte Piet and the fact that TurboNegro is literally a popular metal band, but god forbid that you criticize every American's sovereign right to invade and bomb whoever the hell we feel like while stockpiling personal arms caches and making little pillow fortresses out of Bibles.

The point, dear NPC alt, is that everyone in this game is basically a jerk and is going to get butthurt about something. It's a culture-clash thing, not a CSM issue.


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