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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Odyssey] Attack Battlecruiser balance pass

First post
Author
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#361 - 2013-04-16 20:08:40 UTC
Witcher Kushan wrote:
one think I can not understood - that NAGA do not have missiles. Why this is the only ship is not using race skills?

BS missiles are and were to crap back then.
Though it might be worth looking again given their upcoming introduction as a pvp module
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#362 - 2013-04-19 00:57:12 UTC
The Naga still looks useless...
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2013-04-19 01:48:30 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
The Naga still looks useless...
Extreme range, way faster than any battleship with similar DPS...hmm...

nope, I'm drawing a blank too.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Aglais
Ice-Storm
#364 - 2013-04-19 01:55:45 UTC
Witcher Kushan wrote:
one think I can not understood - that NAGA do not have missiles. Why this is the only ship is not using race skills?


Hybrid turrets are just as much the Caldari signature weapon as missiles are.

It is my opinion that Caldari missile purists give everyone who started Caldari a bad name. You keep wanting the Naga to be a gucking horrible cruise/torp platform. EVE doesn't need another strictly POS bashing ship because you all are too lazy to train hybrid goddamn turrets. If Minmatar have to train both shield and armor tanking in order to be effective at all, why is it such a catalcysm that you have to train two weapon systems? (Further, large railguns are good. So are small ones, IIRC. It's just the medium ones that are literally the worst weapons in the game, next to... Oh, heavy missiles. At least for the cruiser/battlecruiser scale. The normal ones.)
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2013-04-19 03:58:01 UTC
So when are you actually nerfing tier 3 bc's? You know, since more than BS damage with cruiser speed and extreme damage projection are balanced...

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

UVPhoenix2
Brave Empire
Brave United
#366 - 2013-04-19 06:13:31 UTC
Akturous wrote:
So when are you actually nerfing tier 3 bc's? You know, since more than BS damage with cruiser speed and extreme damage projection are balanced...

The tier 3's are working as intended. They don't need another nerf. The other ship classes need a buff and that's the direction CCP's been heading in.
Successful Troll
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#367 - 2013-04-20 08:06:12 UTC
Still waiting for my Naga to be a torp boat.

Just saying.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2013-04-20 11:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
UVPhoenix2 wrote:
Akturous wrote:
So when are you actually nerfing tier 3 bc's? You know, since more than BS damage with cruiser speed and extreme damage projection are balanced...

The tier 3's are working as intended. They don't need another nerf. The other ship classes need a buff and that's the direction CCP's been heading in.


You don't buff everything to meet the outlyer, you nerf the outlyer. Power creep is not a good thing. They're also a complete laugh in the face of any attempts to buff active tanking, especially after off grid boosts are nerfed.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#369 - 2013-04-22 23:45:11 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
decent changes but i think you can go further here.
-remove a turret
-buff tank to be better than combat cruisers as it seems odd a moa can outank a naga at least in HP anyway.

And nerf the alpha on arties for christ sake they are OP in this regard i think missiles should really do the alpha damage not guns.


Removing a turret slot would probably be good idea since attack bcs get serious over DPS to anything else that you could fly. This would nerf the damage still giving bs level damage and good sniping ability, I also like the idea of utility high so just leave the 8 high slot?


TBH just take the DPS bonus to 4%/lvl and it scales them better. I'm very fond of having a full rack TYVM.
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#370 - 2013-04-22 23:55:55 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Witcher Kushan wrote:
one think I can not understood - that NAGA do not have missiles. Why this is the only ship is not using race skills?


Hybrid turrets are just as much the Caldari signature weapon as missiles are.

It is my opinion that Caldari missile purists give everyone who started Caldari a bad name. You keep wanting the Naga to be a gucking horrible cruise/torp platform. EVE doesn't need another strictly POS bashing ship because you all are too lazy to train hybrid goddamn turrets. If Minmatar have to train both shield and armor tanking in order to be effective at all, why is it such a catalcysm that you have to train two weapon systems? (Further, large railguns are good. So are small ones, IIRC. It's just the medium ones that are literally the worst weapons in the game, next to... Oh, heavy missiles. At least for the cruiser/battlecruiser scale. The normal ones.)


The problem here is that while we're getting the 'phoon v2.0, we still don,t have a mobile missile sniping platform. I wanna use my cruise missiles on something that can be taken into WH-space without cllapsing half the WHs that aren't brand new. Also, the gallente already fill the hybrid sniper role.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#371 - 2013-04-23 10:58:30 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Aglais wrote:
Witcher Kushan wrote:
one think I can not understood - that NAGA do not have missiles. Why this is the only ship is not using race skills?


Hybrid turrets are just as much the Caldari signature weapon as missiles are.

It is my opinion that Caldari missile purists give everyone who started Caldari a bad name. You keep wanting the Naga to be a gucking horrible cruise/torp platform. EVE doesn't need another strictly POS bashing ship because you all are too lazy to train hybrid goddamn turrets. If Minmatar have to train both shield and armor tanking in order to be effective at all, why is it such a catalcysm that you have to train two weapon systems? (Further, large railguns are good. So are small ones, IIRC. It's just the medium ones that are literally the worst weapons in the game, next to... Oh, heavy missiles. At least for the cruiser/battlecruiser scale. The normal ones.)


The problem here is that while we're getting the 'phoon v2.0, we still don,t have a mobile missile sniping platform. I wanna use my cruise missiles on something that can be taken into WH-space without cllapsing half the WHs that aren't brand new. Also, the gallente already fill the hybrid sniper role.


there is no real missile sniper role. the whole concept of missile flight time works against that. As long as your missiles do not apply dmg when you warp off grid (which hasn't been fixed iirc) sniping with missiles won't be a thing. RailNaga works fine and gets used. Don't fix what isn't broken.

(new)cruise raven and typhoon will be nothing when not complemented with a full wing of brawler ships which keep the enemy fleet away from them. they actually look like the bombardment-role CCP Ytterbium was so fond of at the beginning of the tiericide-agenda. proposed cruise missiles are super awesome (check it out on duality ;) ) but they still not useful for sniping.
it's more about sustained dmg over distance.

Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#372 - 2013-04-24 00:48:37 UTC
The changes to these ships make little difference to me as I'm rarely in position to get buttraped by them, however the talos having a dronebay does change its application in PvE to one where it becomes much more usable in an area it wasn't intended to be, either remove the dronebay or give a dronebay to all of them.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#373 - 2013-04-24 01:17:23 UTC
removing the Talos drones don't really solve the problems with these ships and its nice that the gallente has some advantage over the amarr.
Its a shame CCP hasn't really been interested in our feedback on ABC'S and made no changes since it was posted...

I would love to know if they really see these as natural ABC's rather than a strange specialization more akin to a T2 class.
As i think people would rather have a more natural line of ABC's using the combat bc's like the navy versions seem to have taken up that line.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2013-04-25 17:19:21 UTC
These changes are not enough.

Attack battlecruisers need to be nerfed much harder, mainly their fitting ability.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#375 - 2013-04-28 18:13:19 UTC
I'm struggling to see the value of attack BS while ABCs retain such a huge advantage in mobility.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#376 - 2013-04-29 23:46:09 UTC
These things simply have more firepower than battleships and more. wya more mobility. Tank is hardly as relevant , specailly when they have RANGE and flaloff bonuses. They can avoid almost all damage,


These thigns need ALL to loose 1 turret at LEAST!!!! They could very well loose 2 turrets adn still be overpowered.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#377 - 2013-04-29 23:46:56 UTC
UVPhoenix2 wrote:
Akturous wrote:
So when are you actually nerfing tier 3 bc's? You know, since more than BS damage with cruiser speed and extreme damage projection are balanced...

The tier 3's are working as intended. They don't need another nerf. The other ship classes need a buff and that's the direction CCP's been heading in.



Show me where then.. because up to knwo the strogner battleships ahve been NERFED in upcomming patch.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#378 - 2013-05-03 01:46:02 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Witcher Kushan wrote:
one think I can not understood - that NAGA do not have missiles. Why this is the only ship is not using race skills?


Hybrid turrets are just as much the Caldari signature weapon as missiles are.

It is my opinion that Caldari missile purists give everyone who started Caldari a bad name. You keep wanting the Naga to be a gucking horrible cruise/torp platform. EVE doesn't need another strictly POS bashing ship because you all are too lazy to train hybrid goddamn turrets. If Minmatar have to train both shield and armor tanking in order to be effective at all, why is it such a catalcysm that you have to train two weapon systems? (Further, large railguns are good. So are small ones, IIRC. It's just the medium ones that are literally the worst weapons in the game, next to... Oh, heavy missiles. At least for the cruiser/battlecruiser scale. The normal ones.)



I find your opinion to be quite ridiculous considering you have to spend more time training missiles than turrets.
Frig missiles, you need to learn light and rocket.
Cruiser and BC - heavy and Ham.
Battleship - Torps and cruise.

While turret users just learn the main skill to 5 and can simply buy the skill for the long or short range. Caldari is mostly missile boats and the fact we have to learn 2 weapon skills as compared in order to have access to the other half of the caldari line.

All the while only a a few ships on each other race requires missile skills.

Caldari pilots have every right to have viable missile platforms in every flavor of ship class and currently large missiles are poor weapons. Heavy missiles are garbage now because turret cry babies couldnt handle a challenge.

I find turret people to be lazy in telling missile users to just learn guns because their missile systems suck.

I am gallente turret user and you should be ashamed for your comment.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#379 - 2013-05-03 07:42:05 UTC
Stop this interminable whining, Hagika.
Wu1f
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#380 - 2013-05-03 10:12:56 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:

lol this is an alt

although flying a falcon it can be popped in a few hits by a nado arty fit
- just switch some alpha for ROF its seems odd that AC's are so ROF based but arties are opposite
-missiles and lasers should really be more alpha based than projectiles and rails.


Shocked *FacePalm*

you're an idiot

of course autos and arties do the opposite just like all the different weapons systems for each race.
blaster = short range dps rails = long range no dps, pulse and beams are similar as are torps and cruise missiles are you seeing a trend here?

i like the idea of slowing the Tier 3s down but there is still nothing you can do about that pre-alligned nado 90-100km off gate with a throw away remote sensor boosting alt next to it.

still i look forward to seeing the changes in action Big smile