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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

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Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#61 - 2013-03-27 20:10:24 UTC
Viribus wrote:
Current bonus is an effective 50% bonus to DPS

New bonus is a 50% flat bonus to damage

And it loses a gun

Do the math


Current bonus is actually a 60% bonus to DPS, not 50%. (1 / (1 - 0.075*5)) = (1 / (1 - 0.375)) = 1 / 0.625 = 1.6

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#62 - 2013-03-27 20:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Iam Widdershins wrote:
My concerns with these changes, which are by-and-large pretty good, is the absolute slap in the face given to the Omen Navy Issue.

Currently it has a -7.5 rate of fire bonus and 5 turrets, giving it the equivalent damage of 8 turrets with the cap usage of 4. After these changes it will have the equivalent damage of 6 turrets with the same cap usage, gaining only an optimal range increase in compensation -- one that it must share with the already-popular Zealot.

Additional speed notwithstanding, this just doesn't feel like a great change to me. Sure, it has drones over the Zealot, but the Zealot was already popular over the Nomen when it had 40 meters of dronebay and only 4% less gun damage; when it gains only 10 meters of dronebay and the Zealot outguns it by 39% with the same optimal bonus, I don't think this is going to change much.

Nor do I think that "we will deal with the Zealot in a future balance pass" is a very good excuse for this. I can't think why anyone would complain that the Zealot isn't a very decently balanced ship.

I was expecting to see something along the lines of "We think the Omen Navy Issue is a great example of a fairly solid navy cruiser to begin with, so we just gave it a tad bit of speed and tweaked its hitpoints a little leaving its function largely intact." That's something that I would be interested in flying in the future and would expect to see flying around.


I forgot the ONI already has 7.5 rof%/level, so losing a gun and going up to 10% damage/level is not the best trade.

It should probably either keep the gun, or go to 12.5%/level
Luc Chastot
#63 - 2013-03-27 20:14:00 UTC
I am really looking forward to flying that Vexor, looks beautiful and should feel like a proper drone boat.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#64 - 2013-03-27 20:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
omen navy getting less turret damage than it already HAS. and less hitpoints than its RIVAL THE STABBER FLEET in every category. and the stabber fleet is untouched? seruiosly

UNACCEPTABLE. this makes no sense that the top of the line amarr navy cruiser has LESS ARMOR THAN ITS RIVAL.

wth the stabber fleet has more sensor strength a omen navy. ?!!?!?!?!!?!?!!!!?!?!?!?!??!!?

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-03-27 20:17:00 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
My concerns with these changes, which are by-and-large pretty good, is the absolute slap in the face given to the Omen Navy Issue.

Currently it has a -7.5 rate of fire bonus and 5 turrets, giving it the equivalent damage of 8 turrets with the cap usage of 4. After these changes it will have the equivalent damage of 6 turrets with the same cap usage, gaining only an optimal range increase in compensation -- one that it must share with the already-popular Zealot.

Additional speed notwithstanding, this just doesn't feel like a great change to me. Sure, it has drones over the Zealot, but the Zealot was already popular over the Nomen when it had 40 meters of dronebay and only 4% less gun damage; when it gains only 10 meters of dronebay and the Zealot outguns it by 39% with the same optimal bonus, I don't think this is going to change much.

Nor do I think that "we will deal with the Zealot in a future balance pass" is a very good excuse for this. I can't think why anyone would complain that the Zealot isn't a very decently balanced ship.

I was expecting to see something along the lines of "We think the Omen Navy Issue is a great example of a fairly solid navy cruiser to begin with, so we just gave it a tad bit of speed and tweaked its hitpoints a little leaving its function largely intact." That's something that I would be interested in flying in the future and would expect to see flying around.


With this in mind, I would like to see the omen remain similar to as it is now as well. I haven't flown it much, but keeping it different from the zealot should be important.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#66 - 2013-03-27 20:17:22 UTC
Minmatar really are getting nerfed to ****. I'm dreading when hacs get the rebalancing treatment (slower vagas?). Minmatar are getting slower, and will be hurt by the nerf to Tracking Enhancers as well.

The whole point of Minmatar is to be fast glass cannons and it seems like they are becoming slow, poorly tanked brawlers.

SFI is also used somewhat effectively as a heavy tackler in ahacs, which will almost become non-existent now due to the nerf to armor.

What Minmatar are supposed to be as a race needs to be re-looked at by Fozzy, because all I have seen is bad things coming to Minmatar ships. Every Minmatar ships re-balance is a dissapointment....

"Insert Philosophical Statement Here"
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-03-27 20:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Tsubutai wrote:
BTW, Fozzie, did you mean for the Navy Osprey to only have four launchers? That would give it less dps than the T1 caracal, even when using kinetic missiles...


Considering 260m/s and 6 mids, seems quite fair. Kiting potential of the boat will be crazy.

Bosquit wrote:
Minmatar really are getting nerfed to ****. I'm dreading when hacs get the rebalancing treatment (slower vagas?). Minmatar are getting slower, and will be hurt by the nerf to Tracking Enhancers as well.

The whole point of Minmatar is to be fast glass cannons and it seems like they are becoming slow, poorly tanked brawlers.

SFI is also used somewhat effectively as a heavy tackler in ahacs, which will almost become non-existent now due to the nerf to armor.

What Minmatar are supposed to be as a race needs to be re-looked at by Fozzy, because all I have seen is bad things coming to Minmatar ships. Every Minmatar ships re-balance is a dissapointment....


This is my concern as well. The SFI was one of the best AHAC tacklers, nerfing its mass and decreasing it's armor is not the best way to reinforce this role. Is it possible to reconsider this Fozzie?

(I was thinking it should even be faster than it currently is...)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-03-27 20:18:34 UTC
when can we expect battleships,navy battleship,pirate battleships and t2 battleships to be reworked?they need that too.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#69 - 2013-03-27 20:20:13 UTC
Exequror Navy Issue looks really good though I feel like it could use a little bit more grid
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#70 - 2013-03-27 20:21:42 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
omen navy getting less turret damage than it already HAS. and less hitpoints than its RIVAL THE STABBER FLEET in every category. and the stabber fleet is untouched? seruiosly

UNACCEPTABLE. this makes no sense that the top of the line amarr navy cruiser has LESS ARMOR THAN ITS RIVAL.


The Navy Aug is the new Amarr brawler:

6.75 effective Turrets
2 medium Neuts
AB
Medium cap booster
Scram
1600 mm plate
EANM x 2
DC
HS x 2
TE
Trimarks x 3

The current NOmen is not going to be able to compete with that. They HAD to go Sniper with it.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#71 - 2013-03-27 20:23:10 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
omen navy getting less turret damage than it already HAS. and less hitpoints than its RIVAL THE STABBER FLEET in every category. and the stabber fleet is untouched? seruiosly

UNACCEPTABLE. this makes no sense that the top of the line amarr navy cruiser has LESS ARMOR THAN ITS RIVAL.


The Navy Aug is the new Amarr brawler:

6.75 effective Turrets
2 medium Neuts
AB
Medium cap booster
Scram
1600 mm plate
EANM x 2
DC
HS x 2
TE
Trimarks x 3

The current NOmen is not going to be able to compete with that. They HAD to go Sniper with it.


Any yet it can only fit focused medium beams. Lol @ no mids brawler.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#72 - 2013-03-27 20:31:55 UTC
i thought the idea of faction ships was to have a straight improvement to the T1 counterpart (if there is one). Best example is probably the navy apoc. I am not sure if i like the idea that the faction variants now get a distinct role to the T1 hull across the board.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Bosquit
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#73 - 2013-03-27 20:35:27 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
i thought the idea of faction ships was to have a straight improvement to the T1 counterpart (if there is one). Best example is probably the navy apoc. I am not sure if i like the idea that the faction variants now get a distinct role to the T1 hull across the board.


Sort of agree with that as well, doesn't really make sense giving them weird roles that are so drastically different from their T1 variants. They are just supposed to be slightly superior ships that the Factions use, not completely different.

"Insert Philosophical Statement Here"
BadFC
Doomheim
#74 - 2013-03-27 20:37:09 UTC
Omen Navy Issue shouldn't lose that extra low slot, because it's an armor tanking ship... derp.

Armor ships are supposed to get face raped and walk away, so making them faster, while leaving everything else would be helpful, but i get the idea you're going to make the ships faster, and then buff tracking on other ships/modules, so they are easier to hit them.

In the end, I just really don't want to lose that extra low slot on the Omen...
BadFC
Doomheim
#75 - 2013-03-27 20:38:11 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
i thought the idea of faction ships was to have a straight improvement to the T1 counterpart (if there is one). Best example is probably the navy apoc. I am not sure if i like the idea that the faction variants now get a distinct role to the T1 hull across the board.


This!
Arteriamus
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#76 - 2013-03-27 20:40:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One more thread today before I start the Easter vacation (Iceland is awesome).

And it's Navy Cruiser time! We're going to be doing a comprehensive pass on the Navy Cruisers as well as the already

Caracal Navy Issue: Finds a niche as the heavier version of the Caracal, more suited to brawling than kiting.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile explosion radius



New launcher group? faster firing light launcher for cruisers?
Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#77 - 2013-03-27 20:43:07 UTC
Really confused at your choices for the Minmatar ships.

Giving bonuses to other ships = YAY!

Nerfing the one good Navy ship = ???

This is one of those instances where you actually don't need to take a step back, you know?

Also, the decision to "redeem" the split weapon bonuses on the Scythe has resulted in...two weapon bonuses? You know that when a hull only receives two hardcoded bonuses, and when both of those bonuses are for different weapons, you realize that is still "split", right?

Am I missing something, or did you mean something else besides "redeem"? Because I don't see a whole lot of that happening here.
Vrat Briner
Steel Lion Inc
#78 - 2013-03-27 20:43:12 UTC
Quote:
Exequror Navy Issue: Keeping the same role for this one, as a high damage blasterboat with the two damage bonuses. Adding an extra highslot and turret increases damage even further. It's fast and hard hitting but the lack of the Thorax's tracking bonus hurts.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 5 H(+1), 4 M(+1), 6 L(+1), 5(+1) turrets
Fittings: 830(+70) PWG, 340(+60) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1800(+428) / 1950(+474) / 2550(+863)
Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(-200)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+125) / 490s(-1.25) / 3(+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255(+7) / 0.4 (-0.037) / 11280000(-260,000) / 6.25s(-0.74)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(+5) / 25(+5)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km / 325(+3) / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 18(+3) Magnetometric
Signature radius: 110(+2)
Cargo capacity: 465 (+200)


+1 turret, +1 med, +1 low and +70 PG and +60 CPU? Seriously? At the moment you only can fit Ions if you're going to armour tank (or neutrons, if you're going shield tank it) and you do not have any free resources left at all, and you're adding ONE MORE turret and med slot with only 70 PG and 60 CPU??? Again, seriously? Are we supposed to fit electron blasters on it?
BadFC
Doomheim
#79 - 2013-03-27 20:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: BadFC
Iam Widdershins wrote:

I was expecting to see something along the lines of "We think the Omen Navy Issue is a great example of a fairly solid navy cruiser to begin with, so we just gave it a tad bit of speed and tweaked its hitpoints a little leaving its function largely intact." That's something that I would be interested in flying in the future and would expect to see flying around..


This is exactly how I feel.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-03-27 20:47:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Arteriamus wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One more thread today before I start the Easter vacation (Iceland is awesome).

And it's Navy Cruiser time! We're going to be doing a comprehensive pass on the Navy Cruisers as well as the already

Caracal Navy Issue: Finds a niche as the heavier version of the Caracal, more suited to brawling than kiting.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile explosion radius



New launcher group? faster firing light launcher for cruisers?


Assault Launchers have been renamed to Rapid Light Launchers since around this time last year. ;)

Del Vikus wrote:


Also, the decision to "redeem" the split weapon bonuses on the Scythe has resulted in...two weapon bonuses? You know that when a hull only receives two hardcoded bonuses, and when both of those bonuses are for different weapons, you realize that is still "split", right?

Am I missing something, or did you mean something else besides "redeem"? Because I don't see a whole lot of that happening here.


this is an underlying concern for me as well. Perhaps just keep it a missile platform.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us