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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#681 - 2013-05-18 12:18:10 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
The stabber fleet issue does intrigue me as a AB plated ship but AB's need some work as they add too much mass and leave you somewhat vulnerable to webs and neuts.
Also why add mass to it? its mass was fine it was balanced by being short ranged and the lower mass/extra speed helped with AB potential fits.

The caracal and Augoror has lower mass ... that's very strange for continuity i would think.
i think there is room to reduce the mass across the board though.



The mass adition is to avoid usage of oversized Burners.

I usually do not agree with this guy. But he has a point. AB could be improved a tiny bit. Not much, just a bit woudl be enough so that the ships that were intended to use them can do it properly. Another 5% speed bonus on each one of all AB types woudl be enough .

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kaal Redrum
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#682 - 2013-05-20 19:47:04 UTC
Akturous wrote:
Willy Eckerslike wrote:
Akturous wrote:
You retards do understand that it's 10%/lvl for both missiles and guns right?

So you're actually getting 4 bonuses. This is what should have happened to the phoon.

If you can't understand this, jump off a bridge (the jump kind).


The Scythe FI gets two bonusses (bonii, whatever). Count them. One. Two. That's right, two bonusses. However, they each only apply to one weapon system. So fit a single weapon of choice and that weapon system gets ONE bonus. Count it. One. That's right. One bonus.

Fit two different weapon systems in a split formation and each system gets one bonus. Count it. One. That's right. One bonus.

Now look at all the other ships. They get two bonusses for their weapon system.. You fit that weapon system and you get two bonusses. Count them. One. Two. That's right. Two bonusses.

Who did you say was the ******? Ignorance is bliss.

The projectile bonus does not apply to missile systems and the missile damage bonus does not apply to projectiles.

Get rid of the split weapon system and let us have two bonusses for a single weapon, like all the others. Split weapons are old hat.

I thank you.

Edit: Apparently re-tard is a naughty word


10% is the equivalent of two normal 5% bonuses. Some people, seriously.



Cant... resist..replying .. to .. troll...

4 Turrets or Launchers with a 10% damage bonus is a multiplicative bonus i.e. 4 x (1+0.1x5) or 4 x 1.5 ie 6 effective Turrets or Launchers

It is ONE bonus, not Two. One.

RoF on the other hand is a division based buff

4 Turrets with a 10% RoF bonus, fires faster ofcourse i.e. 4 / (1-0.1x5) or 4/0.5 or 8 effective Turrets.

So RoF better than standard Damage bonus - still ONE bonus. Or if you REALLY want to be pedantic a 1.33 bonus (8/6), not Two, but 1.33.


The launcher Scythe FI is distinctly worse for this reason - its 6 Effective Launchers v/s 8 Effective Turrets.

CCP needs to make the bonus to launcher RoF and not launcher damage. Unless theyre saying launchers are inherently better than turrets and thus for a split weapon system ship, its balanced to have 6 launchers vs 8 turrets, all other things being equal
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#683 - 2013-05-20 21:06:58 UTC
Kaal Redrum wrote:
Cant... resist..replying .. to .. troll......

CCP needs to make the bonus to launcher RoF and not launcher damage. Unless theyre saying launchers are inherently better than turrets and thus for a split weapon system ship, its balanced to have 6 launchers vs 8 turrets, all other things being equal

I am curious as to how you define a 'troll', when you use fact distortion to rebuke them.

Nomen: 4 Turrets, 10%/lvl = 6 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
Naug: 3 Turrets, 25%/lvl = 6.75 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
ONI: 4 Launchers, 10%/lvl kinetic / 5%/lvl off-race = 6/5 launchers. Bonus only applies to launchers, limited versatility.
CNI: 6 Launchers, 5% RoF/lvl = 8 launchers. Bonus only applies to launchers, limited versatility.
* Very odd how it is so much better than the other hulls.
Nvex: Drones, not applicable.
Nexeq: 5 Turrets, 5% RoF and Dmg/lvl = 8.33 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
* Very odd how it is so much better than the other hulls.
FIS: 5 Turrets, 5% RoF/lvl = 6.67 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
And the one you moan about;
SFI: 4 turrets/launchers, 10% RoF/lvl / 10%/lvl = 8 turrets/6 launchers. INSANE versatility while being on par with all other hulls regardless of chosen weapon system .. if it should be changed then the RoF on guns should be damage (ie. nerf) to bring it in line.

There is not a single 10% RoF bonus anywhere but on the Scythe, because doubling damage of a T1 hull is unheard of without reducing mount points (ex. navy frigs, NAug). You are getting same damage as the ONI only with all damage types, plus 2.5x the drones plus way more speed PLUS you get more gun damage than the vast majority of hulls that are limited to guns (Same as the Cynabal for Goddess sake!)

What annoys me the most is that there is no explanation as to why Cara, Exeq and Gun Scythe are given that much more damage than the others.

In short: Scythe should be nerfed from proposed configuration as the ability to use either guns or launchers as well or better than the platform specific hulls is broken .. so by all means, give it a 5% damage/5% RoF (no T1 ships has two of the same bonus, so no 10% (5+5) RoF) on four launchers (6.67) with rest made up from superior speed and drones .. will actually make it more balanced.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#684 - 2013-05-21 14:01:06 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Kaal Redrum wrote:
Cant... resist..replying .. to .. troll......

CCP needs to make the bonus to launcher RoF and not launcher damage. Unless theyre saying launchers are inherently better than turrets and thus for a split weapon system ship, its balanced to have 6 launchers vs 8 turrets, all other things being equal

I am curious as to how you define a 'troll', when you use fact distortion to rebuke them.

Nomen: 4 Turrets, 10%/lvl = 6 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
Naug: 3 Turrets, 25%/lvl = 6.75 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
ONI: 4 Launchers, 10%/lvl kinetic / 5%/lvl off-race = 6/5 launchers. Bonus only applies to launchers, limited versatility.
CNI: 6 Launchers, 5% RoF/lvl = 8 launchers. Bonus only applies to launchers, limited versatility.
* Very odd how it is so much better than the other hulls.
Nvex: Drones, not applicable.
Nexeq: 5 Turrets, 5% RoF and Dmg/lvl = 8.33 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
* Very odd how it is so much better than the other hulls.
FIS: 5 Turrets, 5% RoF/lvl = 6.67 turrets. Bonus only applies to turrets, limited versatility.
And the one you moan about;
SFI: 4 turrets/launchers, 10% RoF/lvl / 10%/lvl = 8 turrets/6 launchers. INSANE versatility while being on par with all other hulls regardless of chosen weapon system .. if it should be changed then the RoF on guns should be damage (ie. nerf) to bring it in line.

There is not a single 10% RoF bonus anywhere but on the Scythe, because doubling damage of a T1 hull is unheard of without reducing mount points (ex. navy frigs, NAug). You are getting same damage as the ONI only with all damage types, plus 2.5x the drones plus way more speed PLUS you get more gun damage than the vast majority of hulls that are limited to guns (Same as the Cynabal for Goddess sake!)

What annoys me the most is that there is no explanation as to why Cara, Exeq and Gun Scythe are given that much more damage than the others.

In short: Scythe should be nerfed from proposed configuration as the ability to use either guns or launchers as well or better than the platform specific hulls is broken .. so by all means, give it a 5% damage/5% RoF (no T1 ships has two of the same bonus, so no 10% (5+5) RoF) on four launchers (6.67) with rest made up from superior speed and drones .. will actually make it more balanced.


You have to consider the Scythe does not have a utility bonus like almost every other ship. No range / tracking / missile velocity or whatever. It sacrifices it's utility bonus for the versatility of two mutually exclusive primary bonuses, which are slightly more powerful than usual. Seems fine to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Macgun90
Cold Nova Industries
#685 - 2013-06-02 05:47:48 UTC
Navy Caracal should keep its meager drone bay, 3 light drones isnt exactly devestating but they are nice to have when up against frigates as not all Navy Caracals are fitted with rapid lights.

Likes: Guns, beer, and Navy Issue ships Dislikes: People who cant dock their ships right "Stop taking up two spaces you moron!" Proud supporter of the Caldari Navy 
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#686 - 2013-06-02 12:32:48 UTC
Kaal Redrum wrote:
Akturous wrote:
Willy Eckerslike wrote:
Akturous wrote:
You retards do understand that it's 10%/lvl for both missiles and guns right?

So you're actually getting 4 bonuses. This is what should have happened to the phoon.

If you can't understand this, jump off a bridge (the jump kind).


The Scythe FI gets two bonusses (bonii, whatever). Count them. One. Two. That's right, two bonusses. However, they each only apply to one weapon system. So fit a single weapon of choice and that weapon system gets ONE bonus. Count it. One. That's right. One bonus.

Fit two different weapon systems in a split formation and each system gets one bonus. Count it. One. That's right. One bonus.

Now look at all the other ships. They get two bonusses for their weapon system.. You fit that weapon system and you get two bonusses. Count them. One. Two. That's right. Two bonusses.

Who did you say was the ******? Ignorance is bliss.

The projectile bonus does not apply to missile systems and the missile damage bonus does not apply to projectiles.

Get rid of the split weapon system and let us have two bonusses for a single weapon, like all the others. Split weapons are old hat.

I thank you.

Edit: Apparently re-tard is a naughty word


10% is the equivalent of two normal 5% bonuses. Some people, seriously.



Cant... resist..replying .. to .. troll...

4 Turrets or Launchers with a 10% damage bonus is a multiplicative bonus i.e. 4 x (1+0.1x5) or 4 x 1.5 ie 6 effective Turrets or Launchers

It is ONE bonus, not Two. One.

RoF on the other hand is a division based buff

4 Turrets with a 10% RoF bonus, fires faster ofcourse i.e. 4 / (1-0.1x5) or 4/0.5 or 8 effective Turrets.

So RoF better than standard Damage bonus - still ONE bonus. Or if you REALLY want to be pedantic a 1.33 bonus (8/6), not Two, but 1.33.


The launcher Scythe FI is distinctly worse for this reason - its 6 Effective Launchers v/s 8 Effective Turrets.

CCP needs to make the bonus to launcher RoF and not launcher damage. Unless theyre saying launchers are inherently better than turrets and thus for a split weapon system ship, its balanced to have 6 launchers vs 8 turrets, all other things being equal


So you just agreed with me. I said it's two normal 5% bonuses in one. The fact they gave projectiles 10% ROF and missiles 10% damage is besides the point, a regular bonus is 5%/lvl and around 6-8 effective turrets.

"5% bonus to projectile and missile damage and rof/lvl" would you be happy then? So you'd increase missile dps a bit and lose some projectile (personally not in favour, I hate missiles).

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
vxandl Khouch
Stratton Oakmont Inc
#687 - 2013-06-03 15:16:52 UTC
How about giving faction cruisers slightly faster warp speed than regular cruisers? Perhaps only specific ones, kind of like how the Vagabond has 3.75 AU/s warp speed, why not give something similar to the SFI or Navy Omen?
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#688 - 2013-06-04 10:14:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Edward Olmops
When reading the Odyssey patch notes, I stumbled over one thing that was NOT in there:

Price change for Navy cruisers in LP stores. Was that an oversight or did the former tier 1 ones (Navy Osprey, Augoror, Scythe, Exequror) indeed NOT get more expensive? (as it is stated for the battleships and was also announced for cruisers before...)
I would have expected LP prices to go up e.g. in FW LP stores from 30k to 45k where the former tier 2 cruisers reside.
Perihelion Olenard
#689 - 2013-06-04 22:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
Navy Exequror is a bit tight on fittings. While the fittings prevent me from getting nice HP, it does put out some decent DPS as an armored cruiser. It doesn't have bad agility and speed when plated, either.

But, are these navy cruisers worth nearly twice the cost of a battlecruiser with much less tank and damage of one? Definitely not.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#690 - 2013-06-05 07:00:53 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
When reading the Odyssey patch notes, I stumbled over one thing that was NOT in there:

Price change for Navy cruisers in LP stores. Was that an oversight or did the former tier 1 ones (Navy Osprey, Augoror, Scythe, Exequror) indeed NOT get more expensive? (as it is stated for the battleships and was also announced for cruisers before...)
I would have expected LP prices to go up e.g. in FW LP stores from 30k to 45k where the former tier 2 cruisers reside.


I am interested in this as well.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#691 - 2013-06-06 20:44:49 UTC
When are these going be unstickied to give Page 1 back to Player Posts? Odyssey is in and the Feedback and Issues threads are active. Why not replace these with a "Link Sticky" to those two threads?

We all know how lazy we are to go clicking...wait for it...past Page 3 of this Forum section. Blink

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