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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#601 - 2013-04-18 00:53:42 UTC
Donedy wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Donedy wrote:
Well if it doesnt work how i think it works, tell me where im wrong.
In all the cases when i see his terrible align time compared to all the other faction cruisers, im a bit worried.
0,07s more align time is terrible now ?


I think you are misreading, or something.

Quote:
Stabber Fleet Issue:
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250(+2) / 0.465(+0.02) / 10810000(+1,000,000) / 6.97s(+0.92)


Thats with 0 skills though? not sure how it scales but meh

also anyone who thinks the sfi won't still be good is bad.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#602 - 2013-04-18 01:03:36 UTC
I was comparing it to the navy vexor. I should have mentioned it. Yet, these agility values, per se, are actually very low I think, as the most agile of them are more agile than destroyers.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#603 - 2013-04-18 08:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
I was comparing it to all the other faction cruisers.
Well its till one of the least agile faction cruisers in this rebalance while being minmatar, i think its not normal.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#604 - 2013-04-18 09:45:33 UTC
The "combat" navy cruisers are Aug, vexor, sfi and caracal and the SFI is the second most agile there as it should be.

If anything you should complain about how silly agile the osprey is seeing how Caldari are generaly fat fucks.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#605 - 2013-04-18 11:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Well, to begin with, it should be the first one cause its the minnie one.
And secondly correct me if im wrong, but due to his mass, his align time is the worst compared to the other combat faction navy cruisers.

Edit : wait the Augoror navy is a combat cruiser now? Wtf, what about the omen?
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#606 - 2013-04-18 11:33:54 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The "combat" navy cruisers are Aug, vexor, sfi and caracal and the SFI is the second most agile there as it should be.

If anything you should complain about how silly agile the osprey is seeing how Caldari are generaly fat fucks.



It still doesnt make sense though, the SFI was good at its role and post T1 cruiser balance it was not overly powerfull or dominant, in fact it was properly balanced. Now add mass yet decrease armor and then add shield, it just makes me wonder why, whats the reason?
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#607 - 2013-04-18 11:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The "combat" navy cruisers are Aug, vexor, sfi and caracal and the SFI is the second most agile there as it should be.

If anything you should complain about how silly agile the osprey is seeing how Caldari are generaly fat fucks.



It still doesnt make sense though, the SFI was good at its role and post T1 cruiser balance it was not overly powerfull or dominant, in fact it was properly balanced. Now add mass yet decrease armor and then add shield, it just makes me wonder why, whats the reason?

Thanks to put other words on what im trying to explain...

Edit : will i have to create a "Save the SFI" topic in general discussion to be heard or...?
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#608 - 2013-04-18 13:02:44 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
It still doesnt make sense though, the SFI was good at its role and post T1 cruiser balance it was not overly powerfull or dominant, in fact it was properly balanced. Now add mass yet decrease armor and then add shield, it just makes me wonder why, whats the reason?

Want your panties to really bunch up? Then read thisBig smile

It is your (SFi pilots) own damn fault! CCP gave you an insanely powerful armour tanked cruiser with excess speed to counter the mass addition of a plate .. it was untouchable in solo/small-gang scenarios .. and you all fit shield-gank.
Now they flip it, improve its shield characteristics and lowers its speed to further indicate that it should not be adding plates and you have the audacity to complain?

Winmatar has had three years uninterrupted supremacy, a longer consecutive run than any flavour thus far. Did you or anyone really think that the inevitable change would come in the form of minuscule downward tweaks? Take the hit on the chin and use some of your vaunted gaffer tape to sort yourselves out, you had it coming.

PS: Just wait, there may be more licks coming your way, the ravings about BS fittings in Amarr threads may just end up with hulls used for Artillery losing grid to be on even terms with the rest of Eve.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#609 - 2013-04-18 13:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
It still doesnt make sense though, the SFI was good at its role and post T1 cruiser balance it was not overly powerfull or dominant, in fact it was properly balanced. Now add mass yet decrease armor and then add shield, it just makes me wonder why, whats the reason?

Want your panties to really bunch up? Then read thisBig smile

It is your (SFi pilots) own damn fault! CCP gave you an insanely powerful armour tanked cruiser with excess speed to counter the mass addition of a plate .. it was untouchable in solo/small-gang scenarios .. and you all fit shield-gank.
Now they flip it, improve its shield characteristics and lowers its speed to further indicate that it should not be adding plates and you have the audacity to complain?

Winmatar has had three years uninterrupted supremacy, a longer consecutive run than any flavour thus far. Did you or anyone really think that the inevitable change would come in the form of minuscule downward tweaks? Take the hit on the chin and use some of your vaunted gaffer tape to sort yourselves out, you had it coming.

PS: Just wait, there may be more licks coming your way, the ravings about BS fittings in Amarr threads may just end up with hulls used for Artillery losing grid to be on even terms with the rest of Eve.


Thats wrong, as kraiklyn said after the T1 cruiser rebalance, the SFI was not anymore OP compared to other cruisers.

Also what you dont understand guys, is that the buff to all the other cruisers makes stupid the SFI nerf.
Cause now it wont be OP, it will be UNDER powered.
Thats not the ship rebalance goal, right?
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#610 - 2013-04-19 21:28:21 UTC
Donedy wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
It still doesnt make sense though, the SFI was good at its role and post T1 cruiser balance it was not overly powerfull or dominant, in fact it was properly balanced. Now add mass yet decrease armor and then add shield, it just makes me wonder why, whats the reason?

Want your panties to really bunch up? Then read thisBig smile

It is your (SFi pilots) own damn fault! CCP gave you an insanely powerful armour tanked cruiser with excess speed to counter the mass addition of a plate .. it was untouchable in solo/small-gang scenarios .. and you all fit shield-gank.
Now they flip it, improve its shield characteristics and lowers its speed to further indicate that it should not be adding plates and you have the audacity to complain?

Winmatar has had three years uninterrupted supremacy, a longer consecutive run than any flavour thus far. Did you or anyone really think that the inevitable change would come in the form of minuscule downward tweaks? Take the hit on the chin and use some of your vaunted gaffer tape to sort yourselves out, you had it coming.

PS: Just wait, there may be more licks coming your way, the ravings about BS fittings in Amarr threads may just end up with hulls used for Artillery losing grid to be on even terms with the rest of Eve.


Thats wrong, as kraiklyn said after the T1 cruiser rebalance, the SFI was not anymore OP compared to other cruisers.

Also what you dont understand guys, is that the buff to all the other cruisers makes stupid the SFI nerf.
Cause now it wont be OP, it will be UNDER powered.
Thats not the ship rebalance goal, right?
Underpowered =/= Balanced with the rest

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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#611 - 2013-04-21 08:41:12 UTC
Donedy wrote:
Thats wrong, as kraiklyn said after the T1 cruiser rebalance, the SFI was not anymore OP compared to other cruisers.

Also what you dont understand guys, is that the buff to all the other cruisers makes stupid the SFI nerf.
Cause now it wont be OP, it will be UNDER powered.
Thats not the ship rebalance goal, right?

Wrong, how? When I don't use the 'OP' tag once .. it wasn't OP in the same way the Hurricane was, but it was/is/will-be as I said insanely powerful.
Mass addition is almost countered by general plate mass reduction and honeycombing so performance should be as is.
EHP tweaks are so minute as to be irrelevant, if you want something to really sink your complaints into then look at the same numbers as proposed for the Nomen .. a Navy cruiser with EHP like old lower tier T1 hulls Sad

These changes will in effect add 6 navy cruisers to the game, it will no longer only be SFI's and Caracals flying around. Your preferred ship is still the proverbial wolf among sheep, difference is that the sheep learned how to use and got themselves some guns!
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#612 - 2013-04-22 12:04:41 UTC
Im just saying :

  • With the last T1 cruiser buff SFI was not anymore OP compared to T1 cruisers hulls, according to the price of the hull of course (Its a navy, it has to be more powerfull than a regular T1 hull)
  • It is a Minmatarr hull, minmatarr line of ships was/is and should remain the more agile one. As its one of their racial characteristics. Even more in cruiser size.
  • As the other cruisers are buffed (im glad with that btw), why nerfing the SFI? Even more if as you said "its a small tweak and its no relevant to complain about." In this case WHY NERFING IT? Other ships will take his old role, thats all...


About the Nomen, check the other buffs they made on it, i was actually thinking the new nomen would be my old SFI...
Minmatarrs get trolled very hard with all this ship changes...

I would like to say also that im not worried about getting ****** by this changes as i can perfectly fly all the cruisers.
Just I loved to fly the SFI, and i think that this rebalance is not fair for this hull.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#613 - 2013-04-22 21:40:39 UTC
I think this round of ship rebalancing is kind of funny, tbh. Amarr get skirmish ships (which they sorely need - Navy Omen, Navy Harb), and they complain. They get an OP drone boat they don't want (Armageddon).

Gallente pilots complain about Navy Vexor and Dominix for no apparent reason other than "Need moar dps out of fits nobody uses". And so it goes with all of the races.

We know how to fly our ships one way and complain when gift horses land on our laps because we don't know how to fly them as they are intended to fly.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#614 - 2013-04-22 22:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Well from what ive seen atm the only ones who should complain are minnies...

  • All the hull changes are nerfs except may be for the regular stabber and the phoon (which is till discutable)
  • The new faction battlecruiser is the old hurricane THANKS!
  • Add to that the TE nerf, a module on which most of shield tanked minmattar ships counts

TROLL HARDER PLEASE :D!
Mojo Joo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#615 - 2013-04-22 23:10:22 UTC
Nerfing SFI is pure garbage, this is very idiotic and an another lousy move in direction of mediocrity as main direction of this game.
Anything who can go a bit out of line of others, get nerfed. Why minmatar ships be more agile than caldari or galente ones? Let's nerf them so all mediocre pilots and game designers to feel on same level,
Why to struggle to be more creative in finding new ways to counter an advantage with other advantage? Just nerf, nerf, nerf. Don't search ways to improve, just uniformize anything, brain-dead solution of choice.
I feel less and less motivated to stay in this game because is more with every day a big pledge for uniformity and pure mediocrity.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#616 - 2013-04-23 00:57:41 UTC
Still two caldari navy missile bonused ships.. a navy moa will make an excellent brawler...
Perihelion Olenard
#617 - 2013-04-23 11:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
Mojo Joo wrote:
Nerfing SFI is pure garbage, this is very idiotic and an another lousy move in direction of mediocrity as main direction of this game.
Anything who can go a bit out of line of others, get nerfed. Why minmatar ships be more agile than caldari or galente ones? Let's nerf them so all mediocre pilots and game designers to feel on same level,
Why to struggle to be more creative in finding new ways to counter an advantage with other advantage? Just nerf, nerf, nerf. Don't search ways to improve, just uniformize anything, brain-dead solution of choice.
I feel less and less motivated to stay in this game because is more with every day a big pledge for uniformity and pure mediocrity.

So, you're upset that your navy stabber isn't the best navy cruiser, anymore? How is this a nerf when it stays pretty much the same? A rage quit over some of the other ships being a little more powerful than they were? You'd rather have it so your ship remains the best and the others are worse by comparison? Oh no, no balance is allowed.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#618 - 2013-04-23 11:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Mojo Joo wrote:
Nerfing SFI is pure garbage, this is very idiotic and an another lousy move in direction of mediocrity as main direction of this game.
Anything who can go a bit out of line of others, get nerfed. Why minmatar ships be more agile than caldari or galente ones? Let's nerf them so all mediocre pilots and game designers to feel on same level,
Why to struggle to be more creative in finding new ways to counter an advantage with other advantage? Just nerf, nerf, nerf. Don't search ways to improve, just uniformize anything, brain-dead solution of choice.
I feel less and less motivated to stay in this game because is more with every day a big pledge for uniformity and pure mediocrity.

So, you're upset that your navy stabber isn't the best navy cruiser, anymore? How is this a nerf when it stays pretty much the same? A rage quit over some of the other ships being a little more powerful than they were? You'd rather have it so your ship remains the best and the others are worse by comparison? Oh no, no balance is allowed.

The problem is not that the SFI wont be the best cruiser anymore at all. I will quote my self, cause i think you didnt read my post. Please dont assume people are upset just to be upset and make it personnal everytime.

Donedy wrote:
Im just saying :

  • With the last T1 cruiser buff SFI was not anymore OP compared to T1 cruisers hulls, according to the price of the hull of course (Its a navy, it has to be more powerfull than a regular T1 hull)
  • It is a Minmatarr hull, minmatarr line of ships was/is and should remain the more agile one. As its one of their racial characteristics. Even more in cruiser size.
  • As the other cruisers are buffed (im glad with that btw), why nerfing the SFI? Even more if as you said "its a small tweak and its no relevant to complain about." In this case WHY NERFING IT? Other ships will take his old role, thats all...


[...]

I would like to say also that im not worried about getting ****** by this changes as i can perfectly fly all the cruisers.
Just I loved to fly the SFI, and i think that this rebalance is not fair for this hull.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#619 - 2013-04-23 16:47:29 UTC
The CNI has always had better agility than the SFI. (Caracal agility > Stabber too). The Caracal line has always had near OP agility.

Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#620 - 2013-04-23 17:05:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
What about the comparison between the Osprey and the Exequror? I really don't see why the ONI is faster but will also have much better range with short range weapons. And will have lows available for further mobility/kiting fittings v an ENI. An ENI that will be fit with either a very flimsy shield tank or a mobility killing armor tank. Blasters won't be getting in range to do ****. ONI wins quite easily.

And since I'm making this post I'll complain again about the bullshit active armor bonuses on both Gallente BCs and the further **** that will be the Navy Brutix v the probably highly sought after Navy Drake. Thanks balancing team for taking so many wrong turns lately. Gallente to remain in the shitter for years to come.Straight

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.