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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Cruisers

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Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#521 - 2013-04-08 14:16:07 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Since the Navy Vexor is now a dedicated drone ship are there any plans to look at the unreasonably high CPU needs of drone modules and rigs, or giving the ship some more CPU?


Adjusting the DLAs a bit may be possible, but I'd have to take a closer look at the potential consequences.


maybe improve their range aswell as it makes it hard to use sentries

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#522 - 2013-04-08 14:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them.
Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once (...if of course it doesn't already)

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#523 - 2013-04-08 14:22:56 UTC
Nicen Jehr wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them.
Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once


Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#524 - 2013-04-08 14:27:43 UTC
Nicen Jehr wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them.
Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once (...if of course it doesn't already)


I don't think they're ever going to do a 'drone revamp' :(
Nobody at CCP seems to understand how and when drones are bad.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#525 - 2013-04-08 14:29:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones
Requesting an expansion that improves orbit physics and collisions ;)

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#526 - 2013-04-08 14:34:50 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
I don't think they're ever going to do a 'drone revamp' :(
A post from the Little Things thread:
Haunting Widow wrote:
More on the idea of a "Launch Drones Hot-key"... Have a little button built into the [drone panel] group header, click it and it lights up, this group is now linked to the Launch Drones Hot-key.
...
P.S. and maybe we could put different drones into the same group?? Why is that not a thing.

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#527 - 2013-04-08 16:20:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Nicen Jehr wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them.
Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once


Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey.


Like i've been saying for ages

The problem with drones is not the stats, (although they tend to be a bit too easy to kill)

its that they are ******* stupid and unreliable.



Anyhow i don't think the Scythe is too powerful, its good but not any "better" than the 86k ehp aug or the 800 dps vexor.


Nomen however is silly. That could be fixed with a beam buff though ^^


Lastly something thats not getting discussed is the Navy caracal. I would like to propose that in its current form its too bad against frigates to be a viable brawler. It needs 2 webs to break 200 dps vs ab frigs while barely getting 100 with 1 web. Either needs one more mid or preferably some drones. (Add to that that even against cruisers and up it puts out way less impressive stats than the vexor/aug/sfi)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#528 - 2013-04-08 17:01:02 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Nicen Jehr wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking isn't the primary issue with faster drones, it's the server's ability to keep up with them.
Hopefully when you revamp drones you can figure out some optimizations so operations on the server work with entire flights at once


Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey.


What about giving (nonsentry) drones something like optimal > orbit range, so when they overshoot, they can still hit.


Also, while you are revamping all the drone ships, how about taking a look at the drone rigs? Most are completely useless and almost entirely unused.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#529 - 2013-04-08 18:13:29 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:

Also, while you are revamping all the drone ships, how about taking a look at the drone rigs? Most are completely useless and almost entirely unused.


Fixed that for you.
---
Anyway, some of the 'fast' navy cruisers seem a little too fast. I realize there's a need to distinguish cruisers (especially faction cruisers) from battlecruisers in ways other than firepower, but too much speed creep and you're going to have to re-up the speeds on frigates and destroyers again for them to be viable.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#530 - 2013-04-08 18:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Milton Middleson wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:

Also, while you are revamping all the drone ships, how about taking a look at the drone rigs? Most are completely useless and almost entirely unused.


Fixed that for you..


Fair enough I guess.

For fozzie: Here is a list of rigs that i think there would be a very wide consensus on them being near useless:

Dynamic Fuel Valve
Engine Thermal Shielding
Warp Core Optimizer
All the drone rigs, except maybe sentry damage, drone mining augmentor, drone speed augmentor
Emission Scope Sharpener
Liquid Cooled Electronics
Mementic Algorithm Bank
Signal Focusing Kit
Targeting Systems Stabilizer
Powergrid Subroutine Maximizer
Core Defense Charge Economizer
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#531 - 2013-04-08 18:40:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Stabber fleet issue is gonna stay the same


So what's the problem with leaving the SFI at the same mass and not increasing it?...

You havent really commented on how people use it for heavy tackle in fleets...

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#532 - 2013-04-08 18:59:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for all the feedback so far. We're working hard to get these onto the test server for you all to try out. It's not quite ready to go yet but we'll be providing more updates as we get closer.

The big concerns I'm seeing so far surround the Scythe, Omen and Stabber, so I want to discuss them briefly.




How about the Navy Vexor, or any of the rest?

Would it not be better to break the thread into one for each ship? That way each can get more focus attention and discussion.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#533 - 2013-04-08 19:00:45 UTC
Ashina Sito wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, thanks for all the feedback so far. We're working hard to get these onto the test server for you all to try out. It's not quite ready to go yet but we'll be providing more updates as we get closer.

The big concerns I'm seeing so far surround the Scythe, Omen and Stabber, so I want to discuss them briefly.




How about the Navy Vexor, or any of the rest?

Would it not be better to break the thread into one for each ship? That way each can get more focus attention and discussion.


And then the entire first page could be stickied threads...
Boiglio
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#534 - 2013-04-08 19:33:02 UTC
How about the Navy Vexor, or any of the rest?

Would it not be better to break the thread into one for each ship? That way each can get more focus attention and discussion.[/quote]

And then the entire first page could be stickied threads...[/quote]

Form follows function. If the people who are working on and seeking input are looking for discussion to coalesce around discussing the possibilities/issues with specific ships, then each ship should have a thread to allow that to happen. If they are looking for general feedback about the "theme" or the theory behind how this ship redesign pass came to be and what it hopes to accomplish, then one general thread is the way to go.

You're welcome.

~Boiglio Cool
Shadragk Spellbound
#535 - 2013-04-08 20:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadragk Spellbound
Isn't it possible to add another version of each navy ship to the game instead of changing all of them? Don't nerf the navy omen.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#536 - 2013-04-09 00:11:12 UTC
Shadragk Spellbound wrote:
Isn't it possible to add another version of each navy ship to the game instead of changing all of them? Don't nerf the navy omen.

seruiosly when the navy arbitrator coming?

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#537 - 2013-04-09 05:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinzor Aumer
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Nah that's not the problem. The issue is that drones don't check their distance to the target often enough, which is what causes the overshoots with speed bonused drones. Unfortunately that's a pretty big issue to fix, as it would essentially involve speeding up the tick rate of the entire simulation. Not coming in Odyssey.

Dont know the details, but maybe using more advanced drone AI would help? PID-controlled speed, anyone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
Lina Theist
Rosendal Research and Development
#538 - 2013-04-09 15:14:39 UTC
but my 37,5% rate of fire bonus? ._.

give me 50% rof and I'll be happy, who needs cap anyway?
Mr Ignitious
Lifeline Industries
#539 - 2013-04-09 16:05:59 UTC
Jitami This wrote:
Is there any point in training T2 ships any more?


Not as far as I can tell. Ishtar is now completely out performed by a T1 (albeit faction ship) that is cheaper as well. And that's not keeping in mind the VNI will have the extra low and extra rig slot so that "resist disadvantage" can be very easily counter-acted by simply fitting tank into those slots.

Voila, you can make a superior ishtar out of a cheaper lower skill requirement ship. TT gg ishtar.
Legault Revan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2013-04-09 16:43:52 UTC
I liked the split weapons thing for the Scythe and Phoon before, but if it's going away on the Nag and Phoon, why let it persist? Make the Scythe a missile boat with a bit of extra drone space.

On a separate note: I can't wait for the T2 changes that will make T2 viable again after these changes in this thread. My heavy assaults are sad right now.