Player Features and Ideas Discussion

First as I understand it Navy ships should be an iteration of T1 hulls, T2 is where specialization comes in. The new Navy Vexor is a cheaper less effective version of the Ishar. It should be a better version of the Vexor, it is not. I could be wrong about how the ships are intended to be balanced.

What does the Vexor do better? Flexibility in fitting and DPS.

The new Navy Vexor is only good for (in PvP) a kite set up or bait. Someone above mentioned using it for RR, you still could do that if it had all gun slots in the high. There is no reason why you can't drop a gun to fit for RR. You don't get that flexibility with the new Navy Vexor. The faster drone speed doesn't even really help you all that much. Your just getting a slightly faster time to target with that bonus which only helps if your kiting. I still haven't figured out what I want in the new Vexor's 4th mid.... a drone speed mod has never even crossed my mind. Most likely the tracking speed bonus is needed to keep the drones hitting at a higher orbit speed do to the speed bonus. On top of all of that drones are the absolute worst weapon type to kite with. If your target does not have it's prop mod disabled/neutralized your not hitting with your drones since they do not fire when the MWD is on.

When it comes to DPS, you can do more in a Vexor, no question.

I know of a number of people (who fly Vexors in PvP all the time) who were really looking forward to the new Navy Vexor, every one of them is disappointed. The only reason to fly it is if you don't have the skills to fly the Ishtar, in every other way the new Navy Vexor fails. Your better off spending the extra ISK on an Ishtar then fly in an inferior ship... then again, when is the last time you saw an Ishtar in PVP? On the other hand the Vexor is one of the most powerful ships in it's class. As an added bonus it can do anything you want it to do, it is a mini Domi.

The truth is the new Navy Vexor would be fine for what I Was planning n using it as, a tank for a RR Vexor gang. Eve is filled with KM whore's who can't pass up the chance to kill a faction ship (see Freke in the Alliance tourny) so it gets primaryed even though it has the largest tank and best resists in the group. Although more guns would still be better because it would always be primary it has no need for RR... so guess it gets screwed anyway.

I guess it is telling that the new Navy Vexor is now a kite setup and all of the other ships that everyone is talking about in this thread are kite setups. Everyone playing Eve needs to grow a pair of balls and start doing PvP instead of looking for easy ganks. Oh well, the Vexor is not going to be touched on the rebalanced pass so we still have to be thankful for.

That would do. As everything is/looks the only amarr cruiser with more than 3 mids is the arbitrator. The omen and maller also lost their utility highs, which is a bit of a problem when it comes to brawling.

I am disappoint. I'm not even sure where it should be directed. I think I'm having the Eve-equivalent reaction of when Santa brings you everything you had on your wish list (Retribution) and says "I'll be bringing some more gifts--expect them when the elves get through applying the extra-awesome glitter!" You're excited, your eyes shine with anticipation, you spend hours chatting with friends who understand JUST HOW AWESOME this is going to be! Then the gift arrives. And it's a knitted tea cozy. Sure, it has wonderful, super-sparkly yarn, and it cozies tea like no one's business--it's even hand-knitted with love--but Santa, right on the heels of getting it so right, leaves you with meh. It isn't like he has packaged up dog **** and handed it to you, it's just not quite what you thought you were in line to receive.

You won't often see me posting on the forums, but please don't mistake that for not caring or being willing to discuss issues that affect how I see the game. Mostly I just detest forums. ;) I have been an outspoken advocate for cruisers in general, vexors in particular, and for using frigates and cruisers in both PvE and PvP throughout the game. I loved Retribution, not just because it played right into how I spend my time and energies in Eve, but because it made it easier for so many people to try out so many different ships and tactics relatively quickly. I cheered when I heard you say that people shouldn't expect these sweeping, large buffs when it came time to do the t2 hulls, because those were going to be focused ships, for different roles/niches. It's exactly the right thing. The problem is that I inferred that meant the navy/faction stuff *was* going to be "upgraded" versions of the base hulls. The turbo models, if you will.

The new Vexor Navy Issue, instead of being a buffed Vexor, ends up instead being a gimpy Ishtar. The regular Vexor is the most versatile t1 cruiser in Eve, and the navy version completely guts that. If you want to have a pure drone boat Gallente cruiser, make one, but I don't think it belongs in the "slot" for the Nvex. The difficult part about this, is that so much of it really depends on what the niche/role that the HACS are going to have eventually. If the down-the-road Ishtar is going to be what the Nvex used to be--the epitome of double-damage OMG dps, then I'm somewhat soothed. But you aren't presenting me with plans for HACS, Santa. You're giving me puppy-dog eyes and a tea cozy--to a girl from Seattle, the home of everything coffee.

Please reconsider, or tell us more of your plans so we can give you the feedback I think you need, and in context.

~Boiglio

The Stabber Fleet nerfs make no sense to me. After the patch it will be slow, fragile (in comparison to the N Osprey and Aug), with low DPS, bad damage projection, no Utility slots, and average Sig.

What exactly is it meant to be used for? Compared to the buffed T1 Cruisers it's already fairly well balanced, nerfing one thing then buffing everything else comparable is an absolutely awful idea.

Leave the SFI as it is, let things pan out for a while, and then nerf it later, if it really needs it.

Youre not adding any grid to the scythe? You can barely fit anything to it as it is and with more slots to fill it's gonna be even worse, the ship needs similar powergrid to the others to be effective.
I like how you did the split weapon system though, I think people with skills in missiles and projectiles or just missiles will use it as a missile boat while the average minmatar pilot (like myself) will use it more like a brawley gun boat.

Removing a high power slot gives it more powergrid to play with, and if you're only fitting 4 weapon systems (something that would be terrible on the current ScyFI) frees up even more. I'd have to see some final fittings, but I think it's actually a lot better off than you think it is.

...What.

This terrifies and depresses me. I feel like it still somehow hasn't gotten through to you that heavy drones are godawful in altogether too many ways. 25% speed will NOT make them fast enough to be useful against anything besides an extra-slow battleship whose exhaust port you are already firmly lodged in.

The two utility highs seem to suggest that you think we should be using sentries and DLAs instead. This is all well and good... in PvE. In a PvP situation, any smart pilot will either (A) be close enough in to outrace their tracking and blow them up with ease because they're immobile and a droneless New NVex will be no threat, (B) be tanky enough to shrug off their damage and blow them up with ease because they're immobile and a droneless New NVex will be no threat, or (C) warp away and laugh because you deployed sentries outside point range trying to beat out the tracking problem.

In either case, 125 Bandwidth does NOT justify sticking the Navy Vexor with next to no gunnery. This might change if drones ever get de-suckified, but I don't see any drone changes listed as upcoming.

I like absolutely everything about this except for the Stabber Fleet Issue changes. StabberFI is currently well-balanced, solid but not overpowered. The across the board buff to the other Navy cruisers is bringing them all up to (or slightly above) the current Stabber FI level, and punishing the Stabber FI at the same time is just going to but it in a class of it's own... at the bottom.

I beg of you, implement all the other tweaks and then take another look at the situation on TQ and decide whether or not the Stabber FI really needs to be leashed in with Odyssey 1.1.

No, the Naug comes out as a Maller with Heavy Pulse lasers, utility highs, and a beautiful navy paint job. Also, due to the fantastic Amarr T1 armor resist spread you can get comparable resists.

Well, he also said that if he didn't have his X/4/X damage bonus + tracking bonus cruiser then I couldn't have my optimal bonus kiter. He claimed it was something about Amarr not having any brawling cruisers despite having nothing BUT brawling cruisers. I think that's mostly because he hates kiting though.

-Liang