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Will the Odyssea expansion have any RP/Live Event/Fiction runup?

Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1 - 2013-03-26 17:01:58 UTC
Just wondering.

Cool

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#2 - 2013-03-27 01:09:25 UTC
I'm going to say absolutely. Live events/RP is in full swing at the moment. :)

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#3 - 2013-03-28 05:57:53 UTC
I just hope the dumbing down of the races is stopped.

They seem to crave to make the Gallente and Minmatar the best things in the world.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-03-28 06:08:07 UTC
Keitunen Eto wrote:
I just hope the dumbing down of the races is stopped.

They seem to crave to make the Gallente and Minmatar the best things in the world.


Yeah, no kidding. Also, this is becoming a pretty popular opinion. P
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#5 - 2013-03-28 17:30:06 UTC
Ah but for years Gallente ships were a joke while HM Drakes were giving them the Legolas at 70KM. During that time the common refrain was "CCP Hates Gallente".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#6 - 2013-03-28 17:53:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Keitunen Eto
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ah but for years Gallente ships were a joke while HM Drakes were giving them the Legolas at 70KM. During that time the common refrain was "CCP Hates Gallente".



Were not speaking about ships. Were speaking against the dumbing down of the lore to attract more people. They seem to think we see only in black and white. Good and Evil. Its kind of insulting to people who dont follow the lore that CCP thinks they need to dumb it down to get you interested. Now they are in every single event and Lore based story making the Minmatar and Gallente seem like they can do no wrong in their Corrupt Parliaments and Senates. The other view point is that the Caldari are now becoming Neo Nazi Fascists with nothing but the craving and death of liberty. The Amarr are getting dumbed down into the image of being over zealous religious slavers that want to do nothing but enslave the galaxy.

Personally I would find it insulting if I wasnt into the lore that the Devs had the urge to "dumb" it down for me.

No offense Devs, Just pointing out what most of the RP community sees.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-03-28 18:06:30 UTC
We all know that Winmatar are all that matter anyway ;)

OP, yes, there are definitely live events leading up to this expansion since live events are in full swing right now.

The Caldari Prime stuff is one arc and I believe there is another Arc that is slowly building on the Minmatar / Amarr front.

I think a lot of the 'issues' with Caldari culture and Amarr culture is that they are fairly different to Democratized Western culture. This makes it difficult for people to 'get' and also to support.

Go check out the Live Events subforum to get a general feel for what is going on. Check out the news section of the EVE Online site: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/ (it's a weird one to navigate to from the main page) and then get involved if you have the time and desire!

Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#8 - 2013-03-28 19:16:27 UTC
Fractal Muse wrote:
We all know that Winmatar are all that matter anyway ;)

OP, yes, there are definitely live events leading up to this expansion since live events are in full swing right now.

The Caldari Prime stuff is one arc and I believe there is another Arc that is slowly building on the Minmatar / Amarr front.

I think a lot of the 'issues' with Caldari culture and Amarr culture is that they are fairly different to Democratized Western culture. This makes it difficult for people to 'get' and also to support.

Go check out the Live Events subforum to get a general feel for what is going on. Check out the news section of the EVE Online site: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/ (it's a weird one to navigate to from the main page) and then get involved if you have the time and desire!



Either way its insulting to dumb something down just because some one from "Murica" doesnt understand. Before you rant I am an American of the United States. I was born and raised in Atlanta GA. The fact that they think we "Dont understand" even if we dont is insulting for them to have to dumb the races down.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#9 - 2013-03-28 19:25:40 UTC
Keitunen Eto wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Ah but for years Gallente ships were a joke while HM Drakes were giving them the Legolas at 70KM. During that time the common refrain was "CCP Hates Gallente".



Were not speaking about ships. Were speaking against the dumbing down of the lore to attract more people. They seem to think we see only in black and white. Good and Evil. Its kind of insulting to people who dont follow the lore that CCP thinks they need to dumb it down to get you interested. Now they are in every single event and Lore based story making the Minmatar and Gallente seem like they can do no wrong in their Corrupt Parliaments and Senates. The other view point is that the Caldari are now becoming Neo **** Fascists with nothing but the craving and death of liberty. The Amarr are getting dumbed down into the image of being over zealous religious slavers that want to do nothing but enslave the galaxy.

Personally I would find it insulting if I wasnt into the lore that the Devs had the urge to "dumb" it down for me.

No offense Devs, Just pointing out what most of the RP community sees.


No, Wolfhammer was referring to Lore as well.

Your argument is invalid, and I mean that non-facetiously. EVERY side claims CCP bias against them.

The Caldari are a culture in opposition to Western culture (represented in-game by the Gallente). If you cannot RP a non-Western culture then don't RP the Caldari.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#10 - 2013-03-28 20:02:52 UTC
I have seen a lot of threads about which empire mirrors what culture. All I can figure is that we cannot pin one empire on one culture.

The only non-Western elements I can see in the empires come from some elements of the Minmatar (the tribal community structure) and to some minor extent the Amarr in their religious tendencies that at times are reminiscent of Islam but otherwise have a very deep Christian angle to it.

In North America I can see all 4 empires' elements together at once.

The Caldari look like Russians (Dolph Lundgren could be Tibus Heth if they ever make a movie) but the Russians have some Amarrian elements per the orthodoxy in that culture.

So for the most part, comparing the empires to real existing cultures can have me academically (since it's merely an academic approach - we're dealing with fiction here after all) chasing my tail.

As for Gallente and Minmatar being perceived as "perfect" per a dumbed down approach, I never got the impression that CCP was dumbing down the lore. Each empire has the comic book version of history that they push, you see it in the character creation intro when choosing a race and bloodline, but the chronicles and stories have certainly not painted a good picture of any faction.

But it's a good thing in the long run because anybody who gets involved has the option to go deeper, and not as a requirement of the game. So some people can treat this like an FPS (socially and statistically) and others can treat it like a Sci-fi epic developing in real time (RP for example).

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Vikarion
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-03-28 21:48:01 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
No, Wolfhammer was referring to Lore as well.

Your argument is invalid, and I mean that non-facetiously. EVERY side claims CCP bias against them.

The Caldari are a culture in opposition to Western culture (represented in-game by the Gallente). If you cannot RP a non-Western culture then don't RP the Caldari.


Oh, f*** off, Seriphyn. You've been running this line for years, and no one buys it, least of all those of us who know anything about Eve's backstory. You are constantly trying to justify painting the Caldari as evil, genocidal, racist, and etc, and then when people complain, you're all "well, it's just a non-western culture!" Guess what? Cultures don't work that way, and if you think they do, you're a racist pig. And while your motivation for trying this re-imagination of the Caldari is obvious, since you are a Gallente RPer, don't expect anyone else to buy it.

The Caldari are based on the Shadowrun setting, which is itself a hybrid of American and Japanese culture and corporate practice. The Shadowrun setting has eight giant megacorps which control the lives of the citizens, and they all have corporate scrip, their own private armies, corporate intrigues, and so on and so forth. The Caldari State was written as that sort of setting and society. And it was awesome.

Now, yes, you had TonyG and now CCP Falcon who are doing their level best to trash that, and paint a picture of the Caldari along your lines. Fine. Good for you. But don't expect us to buy that ****.
Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#12 - 2013-03-28 23:03:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Keitunen Eto
Vikarion wrote:
Oh, f*** off, Seriphyn. You've been running this line for years, and no one buys it, least of all those of us who know anything about Eve's backstory. You are constantly trying to justify painting the Caldari as evil, genocidal, racist, and etc, and then when people complain, you're all "well, it's just a non-western culture!" Guess what? Cultures don't work that way, and if you think they do, you're a racist pig. And while your motivation for trying this re-imagination of the Caldari is obvious, since you are a Gallente RPer, don't expect anyone else to buy it.

The Caldari are based on the Shadowrun setting, which is itself a hybrid of American and Japanese culture and corporate practice. The Shadowrun setting has eight giant megacorps which control the lives of the citizens, and they all have corporate scrip, their own private armies, corporate intrigues, and so on and so forth. The Caldari State was written as that sort of setting and society. And it was awesome.

Now, yes, you had TonyG and now CCP Falcon who are doing their level best to trash that, and paint a picture of the Caldari along your lines. Fine. Good for you. But don't expect us to buy that ****.


Well said and that is exactly the image of the Caldari I got ages ago. The same opinion that has got me into the Caldari in all forms and matters. It is sad that they are trying (seemingly trying) to make it seem that the Caldari are racist nazis that want nothing more than to be racist bigots. Though I quite clearly spoke in neutrality.

The Caldari culture does in a sense have the Aryan complex going where those born or from birth of such sorts as Civire or Deteis act in a higher standard over those of lesser importance to the state such as Ethnic Gallente found in the State or Intaki. So on and so forth. You just need to look beyond the "Comic book" image of these cultures.

Edit:
Oh and isn't there a movie about some of your arguments Seriphyn? You seem to be pushing the fact that the Caldari thing never pops up in Western culture. Eh wasn't there a movie about some cop who worked for the corporation that bought the city police force and later turned him into a Robot?

Sounds like a Caldari Corporation in Chicago (I dont remember what city it was in.)

Especially the corruption exposed at the end. It truly is similar of what happens when one CEO tries to better another. Always looking for a bigger agenda. In this case the two corporations were the US Government and The Corporation.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#13 - 2013-03-29 00:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I get the impression that the Amarr are based on the Order of the Divine Shadow from the "Lexx" series.
(I have all 4 movies and the entire series on DVD Oops )


Just saying.



To the previous post: Omni Consumer Products and the city was Detroit.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#14 - 2013-03-29 00:27:47 UTC
Culturally, none of the factions come out smelling like roses. I would not characterize the Caldari as "non-Western," however. The Shadowrun angle is interesting and all, but you could just as easily describe them as Axis Powers (Minus Italy). It's fun, just run with it. The original intent for Amarr was probably Holy Roman Empire Plus Byzantium, quite interesting, with the crap-awful slavery "storyline" that's been going on about 8 years too long primarily a player-originated atrocity. Then there are the Orcs In Space... oink. I suppose the Gallente do come off as the least "objectionable" faction, but someone's got to wear the white hat.

Even so, no need to fret. Plenty of room between the lines to do your own thing (unless you're Space Orc... shudder).
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#15 - 2013-03-29 00:37:28 UTC
While you are all working up a sweat getting emotional and doing your best to rebuke each response and provide a unique approach, I'm quite entertained.

Such a polarised conversation is the exact reason I love EVE fiction. There are many similarities but so many opinions and interpretations of the origin of EVE's inspiration. The fiction is just too deep and complex for such simple outcomes. :)

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#16 - 2013-03-29 06:13:40 UTC
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
While you are all working up a sweat getting emotional and doing your best to rebuke each response and provide a unique approach, I'm quite entertained.

Such a polarized* conversation is the exact reason I love EVE fiction. There are many similarities but so many opinions and interpretations of the origin of EVE's inspiration. The fiction is just too deep and complex for such simple outcomes. :)


This too is well said. I still say though that All are correct. Though I do not like that they now do not capitalize on the faults of the other nations as much as they publicly do with the Amarr and Caldari. Though to each his or her own.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#17 - 2013-03-29 07:37:25 UTC
Vikarion wrote:


The Caldari are based on the Shadowrun setting, which is itself a hybrid of American and Japanese culture and corporate practice. The Shadowrun setting has eight giant megacorps which control the lives of the citizens, and they all have corporate scrip, their own private armies, corporate intrigues, and so on and so forth. The Caldari State was written as that sort of setting and society. And it was awesome.


Remembered CCP were explicit about the Caldari, checked the art book on page 38.

Reynir Hardarson, creative director wrote:
For the Caldari, we studied Japan, Germany and for some reason Finland. For the Gallente we studied French democracy combined with American consumerism, but we tended to look at the darker side of history thinking about the races, to the result that there is no one race in Eve can be called "good". There is always a dark and cold twist to them. Just like in real life.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
Outer Reach Corporate Authority
#18 - 2013-03-29 19:48:37 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Vikarion wrote:


The Caldari are based on the Shadowrun setting, which is itself a hybrid of American and Japanese culture and corporate practice. The Shadowrun setting has eight giant megacorps which control the lives of the citizens, and they all have corporate scrip, their own private armies, corporate intrigues, and so on and so forth. The Caldari State was written as that sort of setting and society. And it was awesome.


Remembered CCP were explicit about the Caldari, checked the art book on page 38.

Reynir Hardarson, creative director wrote:
For the Caldari, we studied Japan, Germany and for some reason Finland. For the Gallente we studied French democracy combined with American consumerism, but we tended to look at the darker side of history thinking about the races, to the result that there is no one race in Eve can be called "good". There is always a dark and cold twist to them. Just like in real life.


Dark and cold twist which is now ignored.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#19 - 2013-03-29 21:02:32 UTC
Keitunen Eto wrote:

Dark and cold twist which is now ignored.

Aye, but the point is that the Gallente are explicitly a French/USA hybrid, and the Caldari are Finnish/Japanese/Germany. Given thay said it was of the worst parts, this is pretty apparent with the clearing of the Caldari from Caldari Prime to make way for the Gallente colonists, the Caldari Megacorporate system being implicitly linked to the Zaibatsu and to concede a point, Nazi Germany production systems.

At least thats what I take it as, the darkest of the historical modern nations reincarnated with some of their best in Eve.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#20 - 2013-03-29 21:07:20 UTC
What I like in particular about the Amarr is how as a theocracy, it appears to be a stifling tyranny on the outside while illustrating how far tyranny can go where consent is concerned. For this reason, Amarrian citizens need not be personally religious, as if at some point some leaders may have tried getting everybody to bend a knee all at once, and failed. The same elements exist in the real world.


Still wondering if we are going to get a build up for the expansion. Perhaps it's time the Sisters of Eve to get out of hand/. You never know with these nuns.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

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