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Mens Reppola of Ishukone Should Be Running The State and not Heth

Author
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#41 - 2013-03-26 21:38:56 UTC
I--

Oh, this one's hard.

On one hand, I do think Heth is no longer a fit leader. On the other hand, I don't feel it's right to insult someone just to provoke another. But then it's Ms. Kim!

Ultimately, my loyalty is to Ishukone and the State -- not to Reppola or Heth.

Kim, Heth's off his rocker.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-03-26 22:03:11 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:


Why should a Caldari ask a Gallente for permission to do anything on their home planet?

Vile submission.



Well, not asking permission is what caused this issue in the first place.

Of course, the last time the Caldari asked for permission, the Gallente shot the diplomat with a Nyx.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

chaosjj
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-03-27 00:56:17 UTC
Miss Kim, you call my actions hostile to the state? I've spend the last 4 and a half years keeping the states space lanes as clear as i can of unwanted intruders, this includes Pirate factions and navy fleets that do not have a legal reason to be in OUR space. so please keep your treats inside of your capsule, they serve no usefull purpose. what we need is a De-centralized type of government, the one that has served the caldari people for centuries, and without a dictator that has a chip on his choulder the size of a Raven class battleship.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#44 - 2013-03-27 05:25:28 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Just ignore Kim. She's proven again and again through her overheated rhetoric that she's nothing more than a genocidal sociopath and xenophobe who would love nothing better than to wipe out the Gallente and Matari. It is indeed her kind of hardcore crazy that's brought the State to its current position not, the Federation.


Sadly, it is that belief -- that ignoring a problem will make it disappear -- which has led us to this state. Unlike the CEP, I will not stand idly by while our most sacred beliefs are torn asunder by pretenders, populists, and ideologues.

And I do not need a Matari to tell me what to do. Your kind have much to answer for when it comes to the blood that has been shed over these last five years. You opened the box, and what was inside has consumed the better natures of all four nations.



"My kind"? And what exactly what kind would that be, pray tell? I sincerely hope you're not as big a racist and bigot as Kim.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-03-27 06:02:56 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:

"My kind"? And what exactly what kind would that be, pray tell? I sincerely hope you're not as big a racist and bigot as Kim.


You Minmatar. After all, you are the ones who dropped CONCORD and pretty much started this whole mess. Not that you don't have some justification in my eyes, but some Caldari are more practical than I.
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2013-03-27 08:10:43 UTC
Utterly preposterous. Yes, the Elder Fleet attacked CONCORD and disabled their quick response capability for a time, but the Matari did not force the State to act during that chaotic day. The State did what the State tends to do well, it capitalized on an opportunity. Caldari leaders quite literally made a conscious choice to take advantage of a situation where they would not have been immediately held accountable by CONCORD. There is so much nonsense being shouted about honor, tradition, and moral authority lately, but the fact remains that when the State could get away with it they made a choice and dishonored and disrespected every CONCORD signatory nation, including and in no small part, themselves.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#47 - 2013-03-27 08:53:32 UTC
You know, sometimes I wonder about CONCORD.
They had to be attacked and taken offline so slaves could be freed, and for the Caldari to reclaim our home.

Seems to me at times CONCORD cares less for peace and people than they do the status quo.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-03-27 08:54:14 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:

"My kind"? And what exactly what kind would that be, pray tell? I sincerely hope you're not as big a racist and bigot as Kim.


You Minmatar. After all, you are the ones who dropped CONCORD and pretty much started this whole mess. Not that you don't have some justification in my eyes, but some Caldari are more practical than I.

I wouldn't recommend you in trying to convince a primitive tribal. Their mind is not developed enough.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-03-27 09:05:14 UTC
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
Utterly preposterous. Yes, the Elder Fleet attacked CONCORD and disabled their quick response capability for a time, but the Matari did not force the State to act during that chaotic day. The State did what the State tends to do well, it capitalized on an opportunity. Caldari leaders quite literally made a conscious choice to take advantage of a situation where they would not have been immediately held accountable by CONCORD. There is so much nonsense being shouted about honor, tradition, and moral authority lately, but the fact remains that when the State could get away with it they made a choice and dishonored and disrespected every CONCORD signatory nation, including and in no small part, themselves.

Indeed, this attack merely saved a bit of our assets that we would lose by frontal attack through tripwire. And of course, minmatars can't force us to do anything, they are basically lacking wits. And that's why they are so easily manipulated by gallenteans. I guess it was quite a shock for fedos when we used minmatar attack against them.

Of course, it could be much more honorable to give Federation a final warning before kicking their occupation out from the planet. But there are a couple of things for consideration: first, it is was this opportunity, and losing it would mean unnecessary losses for our side. Second, is the fact that we treated gallenteans as people for too long, trying to negotiate return of Home Planet by peaceful ways, as you know - with no avail. Finally, and what I am most happy with, we stopped to pay them proper respects and honors, since they don't deserve them.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#50 - 2013-03-27 18:36:45 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
"My kind"? And what exactly what kind would that be, pray tell? I sincerely hope you're not as big a racist and bigot as Kim.


My problem is not with your blood, but your government and its reckless disregard for the stability of the cluster. The removal of CONCORD lit the match on a powderkeg that has killed millions. The Hethists and their enablers have much to answer for, but if CONCORD's response had not been crippled by the Republic, they would have at least been stopped from starting the war that has distracted the State from dealing with their assault on our fundamental institutions.

I have seen plenty of Caldari criticizing the warmongering of the Hethists, but few within the supposedly "more free" Republic have ever called their leaders to task for plunging the cluster into war. Your Gallente puppeteers have also been rather reluctant to criticize the Republic for its blatant disregard of international law...how very convenient that such things can be overlooked when they are done by their client states. I am no fan of CONCORD myself, but I have never advocated their wholesale destruction merely to get revenge for a perceived slight.
Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-03-27 21:17:33 UTC
Svetlana, you are referring to the fleet that was publicly disavowed by the Republic government at the time?
The fleet that contained Thukker tribe members, who at that time were the sworn enemies of the republic?

That fleet?

The Republic government did not, and does not have, as you have put it, a 'reckless disregard for the stability of the cluster'

'Our kind' indeed.


Seven Tribes.
One Matari People
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#52 - 2013-03-27 21:32:52 UTC
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
Svetlana, you are referring to the fleet that was publicly disavowed by the Republic government at the time?
The fleet that contained Thukker tribe members, who at that time were the sworn enemies of the republic?

That fleet?

The Republic government did not, and does not have, as you have put it, a 'reckless disregard for the stability of the cluster'

'Our kind' indeed.


Really. What I remember is the Minmatar Republic allowing the "Elder fleet" to flee through their space, sheltering them from CONCORD and Amarr retaliation, while claiming they had no idea where hundreds of Minmatar-design warships had appeared from. Come now...we are both smart enough to know that such an attack could never have happened without Republic support, even if your government is unwilling or unable to admit it.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#53 - 2013-03-28 10:02:11 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:

"My kind"? And what exactly what kind would that be, pray tell? I sincerely hope you're not as big a racist and bigot as Kim.


You Minmatar. After all, you are the ones who dropped CONCORD and pretty much started this whole mess. Not that you don't have some justification in my eyes, but some Caldari are more practical than I.

I wouldn't recommend you in trying to convince a primitive tribal. Their mind is not developed enough.


So, Diana, when exactly did you decide to model your diplomatic style on Lord Vaari? I ask because you increasingly remind me of him these days, minus the long list of titles of course.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#54 - 2013-03-28 10:06:49 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
Svetlana, you are referring to the fleet that was publicly disavowed by the Republic government at the time?
The fleet that contained Thukker tribe members, who at that time were the sworn enemies of the republic?

That fleet?

The Republic government did not, and does not have, as you have put it, a 'reckless disregard for the stability of the cluster'

'Our kind' indeed.


Really. What I remember is the Minmatar Republic allowing the "Elder fleet" to flee through their space, sheltering them from CONCORD and Amarr retaliation, while claiming they had no idea where hundreds of Minmatar-design warships had appeared from. Come now...we are both smart enough to know that such an attack could never have happened without Republic support, even if your government is unwilling or unable to admit it.


At that point in time the Elder fleet had the entire Starkmanir tribe in it's holds. That would likely have been a factor in the decision to let them pass.

And if the previous administration was complicit in building the fleet, why did Elder agents feel the need to assassinate so many of them?

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#55 - 2013-03-28 16:54:14 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
At that point in time the Elder fleet had the entire Starkmanir tribe in it's holds. That would likely have been a factor in the decision to let them pass.

And if the previous administration was complicit in building the fleet, why did Elder agents feel the need to assassinate so many of them?


So you are going to tell me that the fact that the Republic suffered a military coup at the same time is a reason to be less outraged over the fact that they kicked off a cluster-spanning war for the sake of petty revenge? And what does that say about the people in charge of the Republic now, that they were complicit with such a thing? When your people should be outraged at your leaders for allowing such an irresponsible action to occur and demanding an investigation into what happened and who allowed it to happen, instead you are celebrating the fact that Shakor, the man who benefited the most from this desperate act of revenge, is leading some sort of tribal conclave.

Are you proud of the fact that your Republic's government spend billions, maybe trillions of ISK to build a giant fleet instead of investing in your nation's infrastructure and providing better economic opportunities? Do you think plunging the cluster into war will improve the lives of your people? This is the difference between the Caldari and the Minmatar.
Keitunen Eto
Outer Reach Executive Group
#56 - 2013-03-28 19:41:06 UTC
This might be changing the subject, but I do believe that we need to re-evaluate what the state is as is said earlier. We are the state. Citizens are the State, the board is the state, and we combined make up the whole of the state. The good of the state is the good of the units of the state.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-03-28 20:00:23 UTC
Keitunen Eto wrote:
This might be changing the subject, but I do believe that we need to re-evaluate what the state is as is said earlier. We are the state. Citizens are the State, the board is the state, and we combined make up the whole of the state. The good of the state is the good of the units of the state.

Because this topic is a garden for traitors and outcasts who want to replace our beloved Executor?
But still, I think it could be a nice subject for a different topic, without all this garbage from disassociated junks in the first place.
However, I don't think there is a real reason for re-evaluation, since we are, generally, doing good. So, if you see concerns, tell us in another topic.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#58 - 2013-03-28 20:41:52 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
At that point in time the Elder fleet had the entire Starkmanir tribe in it's holds. That would likely have been a factor in the decision to let them pass.

And if the previous administration was complicit in building the fleet, why did Elder agents feel the need to assassinate so many of them?


So you are going to tell me that the fact that the Republic suffered a military coup at the same time is a reason to be less outraged over the fact that they kicked off a cluster-spanning war for the sake of petty revenge? And what does that say about the people in charge of the Republic now, that they were complicit with such a thing? When your people should be outraged at your leaders for allowing such an irresponsible action to occur and demanding an investigation into what happened and who allowed it to happen, instead you are celebrating the fact that Shakor, the man who benefited the most from this desperate act of revenge, is leading some sort of tribal conclave.

Are you proud of the fact that your Republic's government spend billions, maybe trillions of ISK to build a giant fleet instead of investing in your nation's infrastructure and providing better economic opportunities? Do you think plunging the cluster into war will improve the lives of your people? This is the difference between the Caldari and the Minmatar.


There is some merit to what you say. However refuting your arguments in detail would derail this thread more than a little. If you want to discuss this further please feel free to mail me.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Alesius Lerance
Chrysos Aigis
#59 - 2013-03-29 16:05:51 UTC
Whilst I do not deny the qualities that Mens Reppola and those around him possess, I am uncertain whether or not he would be able to take the strain of running the entire State, especially at a time like this.

Family, Corporation, and State, in that order. What else is there worth fighting for?

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#60 - 2013-03-29 16:20:15 UTC
That shouldn't matter.
The CPD and the Executor position shouldn't exist, at least not in the form it does at the moment.

The responsibility of the running of the state is supposed to be up to the megacorporations' CEOs as a collective. Placing a single man above them is unnatural.