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Where does this leave Heth?
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Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-03-25 15:25:27 UTC
I'm not fully familiar with Caldari politics, but a question came to my mind and I believe some pilots here may be the best to reply to it.

I believe one of Tibus Heth's main claims to his success as an Executor of the State, and the need for him to remain in office, is that he recovered Caldari Prime for the Caldari. But, now that it is lost, he can no longer claim it, as Caldari Prime has become a symbol of the ineficacies of many of his measures. In a sense, the failure in defending the Shiigeru and the planet can be considered like a open call for him to leave his position and return the government of the State to the corporations.

Am I wrong in all this? Am I missing something?

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-03-25 15:28:32 UTC
Desperately seeking an excuse not to have a cup of tea, one assumes.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-03-25 15:30:00 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
I'm not fully familiar with Caldari politics, but a question came to my mind and I believe some pilots here may be the best to reply to it.

I believe one of Tibus Heth's main claims to his success as an Executor of the State, and the need for him to remain in office, is that he recovered Caldari Prime for the Caldari. But, now that it is lost, he can no longer claim it, as Caldari Prime has become a symbol of the ineficacies of many of his measures. In a sense, the failure in defending the Shiigeru and the planet can be considered like a open call for him to leave his position and return the government of the State to the corporations.

Am I wrong in all this? Am I missing something?

It was our fault, that we failed to protect CN Shiigeru, not Heth's.
Besides, our ground troops have crushed gallentean mercenaries and terrorists.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-03-25 15:37:23 UTC
The last time we saw Heth, we saw a very different man than how he usually presents himself. He appeared weak, nervous, stressed and about to break down both physically and mentally.

These times have been hard on him. He knows the Caldari public is increasing their distaste towards him and he can feel his power slipping from under him.

Heth has disgraced New Eden and now he is disgracing his own people. He's going to go down soon. The only question now is whether he opts to bring the State down with him.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#5 - 2013-03-25 15:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Sepherim wrote:
I'm not fully familiar with Caldari politics, but a question came to my mind and I believe some pilots here may be the best to reply to it.

I believe one of Tibus Heth's main claims to his success as an Executor of the State, and the need for him to remain in office, is that he recovered Caldari Prime for the Caldari. But, now that it is lost, he can no longer claim it, as Caldari Prime has become a symbol of the ineficacies of many of his measures. In a sense, the failure in defending the Shiigeru and the planet can be considered like a open call for him to leave his position and return the government of the State to the corporations.

Am I wrong in all this? Am I missing something?


In ancient Caldari culture if one were to fail miserably in his duty or prove to be a burden to his people the honorable thing to do was to wander off into the wastes to die or live in self exile. Resignation from his post is the least expected of him from some of us.


Diana Kim wrote:

It was our fault, that we failed to protect CN Shiigeru, not Heth's.
Besides, our ground troops have crushed gallentean mercenaries and terrorists.


I may not be an Admiral or General, but I know an unsustainable situation when I see one. In the State we believe in taking responsibility to our failures, and as it was our failure to defend our State and people on Home it was Heth's failure to lead by putting us in a situation where we were destined to fail. Failure to acknowledge this is shameful.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Kane Spero
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-03-25 16:15:11 UTC
Ejected out of an airlock hopefully, but that would be wishful thinking.

CPM0 and Owner of Spero Escrow Services

Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-03-25 16:28:21 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:

It was our fault, that we failed to protect CN Shiigeru, not Heth's.
Besides, our ground troops have crushed gallentean mercenaries and terrorists.


I may not be an Admiral or General, but I know an unsustainable situation when I see one. In the State we believe in taking responsibility to our failures, and as it was our failure to defend our State and people on Home it was Heth's failure to lead by putting us in a situation where we were destined to fail. Failure to acknowledge this is shameful.

It wasn't Heth fault, that Gallente hideously attacked planet first with mercenaries, luring capital fleet into low orbit. It wasn't Heth fault, that Gallente attacked our capital fleet, while it was in the most vulnerable to itself - and the planet - position. It wasn't Heth fault, that remains of numerous capital ships, including Shiigeru rained on planet, killing millions of civilians, just like gallenteans planned.
And I hope our glorious leader will continue to be firm and determined, and will find means of protecting space around Home Planet from gallentean invaders.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#8 - 2013-03-25 18:02:42 UTC
It was Heth's fault that we were in a tactically unsound position in the first place however. Home was never in a position to be properly defended. We had no link to reinforcements, no safe supply lines and certainly not enough ships to properly operate so deep behind enemy lines. Despite the result being the return of Home to Caldari hands, it was never a position we could hold indefinitely. As the current Executor of the Caldari State any short comings under his stewardship remain unavoidably connected to him.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#9 - 2013-03-25 18:25:48 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
In ancient Caldari culture if one were to fail miserably in his duty or prove to be a burden to his people the honorable thing to do was to wander off into the wastes to die or live in self exile. Resignation from his post is the least expected of him from some of us.


Interesting, as I thought that was more of a Minmatar tradition than a Caldari one. I was led to believe that the Caldari tradition was called... oh what was that word... ah yes, "sepukku."

I could be wrong, of course.

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#10 - 2013-03-25 18:44:37 UTC
I was not aware that the Matari practiced such a tradition.

This tradition remains alive and well amongst State Navy dropouts and rejects who often flock to Mordus' Legion in imitation of their ancestors for their failure to uphold to their ideals of honor and usefulness. Suicide, however, is most famously characterized by the Tea Maker Ceremony made famous by the Morning of Reasoning where executive drank poison tea to determine if their way was blessed by the Maker.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#11 - 2013-03-25 18:58:07 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
I'm not fully familiar with Caldari politics, but a question came to my mind and I believe some pilots here may be the best to reply to it.

I believe one of Tibus Heth's main claims to his success as an Executor of the State, and the need for him to remain in office, is that he recovered Caldari Prime for the Caldari. But, now that it is lost, he can no longer claim it, as Caldari Prime has become a symbol of the ineficacies of many of his measures. In a sense, the failure in defending the Shiigeru and the planet can be considered like a open call for him to leave his position and return the government of the State to the corporations.

Am I wrong in all this? Am I missing something?


Yes, sir. Two things. Please let me try to explain. I apologize in advance for my poor grasp on the subject.

The first thing that you are missing is the way that power proceeds in the State. One does not simply demand resignation - though this is what will be announced. One acts to ensure that wrongs are righted. This is an example of our maxim that actions are superior to words. The good Executor will not heed any open call for resignation, nor should he. Doing so would be unbecoming to his station.

Second, the implication in your words.

Regardless of how the honoured Executor meets his end, he will be revered as one of the greatest of our Ancestors when he finally finds his rest; he will take his place alongside Etee and Sobaseki and great Tovil-toba.

Half our Ancestors sell us the clear paths and the open skies;
Lij-Taisaan mydiku hakiit hovatiiru yn waruhataashe

Half of our Ancestors sell us the dangerous ground and forbidden cliffs.
Lij-Taisaan mydiku hakiit hnolkuiskki yn kienjazkaan

It is to us to purchase the truth.
Hakiit heiian sa oski hinmonaa
Hakiit heiian sa oski hinmonaa
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#12 - 2013-03-26 04:04:34 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Desperately seeking an excuse not to have a cup of tea, one assumes.


He does not deserve an honorable death. Nor do any of those who support his perversion of the State and its laws. Exile him to the Sansha territories. Perhaps then he will realize where his mistaken ideas about ideology and authority lead...shortly before he lives the rest of his life as an inhuman slave.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-03-26 05:23:23 UTC
Scherezad wrote:

Regardless of how the honoured Executor meets his end, he will be revered as one of the greatest of our Ancestors when he finally finds his rest; he will take his place alongside Etee and Sobaseki and great Tovil-toba.

These are the most wise words, haani!
With all my heart I hope that this day won't come too soon.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#14 - 2013-03-26 05:29:28 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Scherezad wrote:

Regardless of how the honoured Executor meets his end, he will be revered as one of the greatest of our Ancestors when he finally finds his rest; he will take his place alongside Etee and Sobaseki and great Tovil-toba.

These are the most wise words, haani!
With all my heart I hope that this day won't come too soon.


If his life brings good things to the Caldari, may he live a thousand years.

If his death brings good things to the Caldari, may he die at sunrise.

I'm not nearly wise enough to know which, but I'm sure he would agree with me.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#15 - 2013-03-27 15:13:55 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
He does not deserve an honorable death. Nor do any of those who support his perversion of the State and its laws. Exile him to the Sansha territories. Perhaps then he will realize where his mistaken ideas about ideology and authority lead...shortly before he lives the rest of his life as an inhuman slave.



Condemning fellow Caldari - and they are fellow caldari, despite having different political ideologies - so easily makes you appear worse than the most over the top caricature of 'the evil provist'. A bit more composure might be in order.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-03-27 15:21:39 UTC
Scherezad wrote:


If his life brings good things to the Caldari, may he live a thousand years.

If his death brings good things to the Caldari, may he die at sunrise.

I'm not nearly wise enough to know which, but I'm sure he would agree with me.


In this we have the truest example of heiian. May the Winds continue to smile upon your wisdom.

~Malcolm Khross
Anslo
Scope Works
#17 - 2013-03-27 15:27:49 UTC
Heth screwed up big time. Let the Caldari take care of their own house now in the State.

We got more important things to deal with, like making sure Ishukone gets any help they need on Caldari Prime.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-03-27 15:36:21 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Heth screwed up big time. Let the Caldari take care of their own house now in the State.

We got more important things to deal with, like making sure Ishukone gets any help they need on Caldari Prime.


I'm genuinely taken aback. It would seem my personal perception of you was inaccurate. Yours are indeed, wise words.
Anslo
Scope Works
#19 - 2013-03-27 15:37:43 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Heth screwed up big time. Let the Caldari take care of their own house now in the State.

We got more important things to deal with, like making sure Ishukone gets any help they need on Caldari Prime.


I'm genuinely taken aback. It would seem my personal perception of you was inaccurate. Yours are indeed, wise words.


It's like a hobby now. I want to start a photo album of people's reactions when I say something useful when it's the last thing they'd expect from me.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Ammos Gravit
Eos Corporation
#20 - 2013-03-27 16:25:16 UTC
The failings of a subordinate cannot be simply passed up to the director, while he is at fault for placing those that fail in their positions, the full fault lays on many levels. The loss of one world, even Caldari Prime, is not cause for the resignation of the man who oversees the entire State.

Director Heth has been a very positive influence on the State's economy and people, and I have no doubt Caldari Prime will serve the Caldari people again.
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