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Incursion Agreement
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Miles Forrester
Eire Engineers
#1 - 2013-03-24 14:02:36 UTC
After a lot of mailing this is the proposed agreement for all incursion communities.

If you are like: "But {community} was never contacted!?"
Then feel free to discuss now.

If you are an incursion runner and are like: "Yes, finally, let this agreement happen!"
Then feel free to like the post to let communities see how many people are behind this.


Proposed agreement:

Contesting:
  • Honor based (Shiny fleet contesting a T1 fleet in headquarter sites should be discouraged but not forbidden).
  • No unneeded blobbing. Blobbing is then defined as being at least 5 or more over the site's optimal fleet number (i.e. 15, 25, 45, 85). "Needed" blobbing can be under discussion.
  • Can contest but don't overdo it in a way that the other fleet doesn't get ISK at all.
    • MTAC stealing and preloading sites also belong to the honor system. Respect each other.

    Mothership-sites:
  • Free for all, though conditions have to be met before it can go down:
    • - 36 hours after first sight of mobilization. Yes, 36 not 48. This is to give other timezones a chance at mothership sites as well. This is possible with screenshots and keeping MOTD's up to date with the latest "tracker".
    - First sight of withdrawing.
  • Per mothership fleet, there can be checks if there can be a mixed mothership fleet (to get a varied fleet of both shield and armor).
  • In any case, should a mothership fleet be full the rest will move to the next incursion. This is to get the ISK flowing again as soon as possible.

    • Ban lists:
  • To be able to get proper communications going, all ban lists should be made appealable as far as is possible. Bans since ISN's first mothership fleet (for "illegal" mothership fleets, not limited to ISN alone) should be cleared.
  • Use a (up to) 24 hour mute instead of instant banning to act as a warning and to give time to contact others. This contact is needed to avoid unneeded bans happening.

    • Multiple incursions:
  • Due to all our numbers, multiple incursions can be taken down at the same time (even with this agreement) but I, personally, would discourage this such that players don't need to commute between incursions all the time.

    • Side note about the Allied channels:
    I know there is a channel around (IFCC for example) that has leaders of some communities in there but I am willing to transform/convert/change Allied to such a higher platform.
    In this sense the channels would (most likely) be adjusted like this:
    - Fleet channel can then be used for the creation of mothership fleets
    - Public channel can be used as a sorting hat for getting players into communities (or getting people to know what incursions actually are, a kind of help-channel)
    - FC channel can be used as a communication ground for any and all FC's (e.g. to tell about contests and such)
    - Council channel can be used to have each community's leaders. Yet to be discussed is then how many representatives per community.
    As for: 'Why Allied?"
    This is because we have remained neutral over the course of time (as hard as it is).
    Graham Nolen
    Original Sinners
    Pandemic Legion
    #2 - 2013-03-24 15:20:50 UTC
    Reserved for when I get home and have a keyboard

    not again.
    Lenier Chenal
    Offensive Upholder
    #3 - 2013-03-24 20:44:10 UTC
    I like running sites when I'm bored, but goodness I had no idea incursion communities were so dramatic! Hilarious!
    Inkarr Hashur
    Skyline Federation
    #4 - 2013-03-24 20:49:27 UTC
    Lenier Chenal wrote:
    I like running sites when I'm bored, but goodness I had no idea incursion communities were so dramatic! Hilarious!

    They're cancerous IMO
    Bozl1n
    Shiva
    Northern Coalition.
    #5 - 2013-03-24 20:50:08 UTC
    Lenier Chenal wrote:
    I like running sites when I'm bored, but goodness I had no idea incursion communities were so dramatic! Hilarious!



    Yea man, its like null sec down here lol
    Che Shifu
    LowKey Ops
    #6 - 2013-03-24 22:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Shifu
    I can appreciate the amount of time you are spending trying to get an agreement in place that will make all the Incursion communities happy. However, as someone who likes the current volatile environment currently surrounding incursions (especially considering yesterdays events), I hope this doesn't go anywhere. Things are about to get interesting. Twisted

    To directly address your post, contesting is fine as it is right now. If you cannot handle being contested, leave the system or (preferably) upgrade your standards. I am confident that between TVP and DIN, there are enough pilots with the skills and the isk to bring a properly composed fleet to contest (and maybe win) against an ISN fleet. Just because the leadership in those two communities are unwilling to properly contest does not mean there is something wrong with the current state of contesting.

    While I must admit some kind of "don't take the mom(?) until x" agreement would be nice, it would have to be of the "unspoken" agreement variety. There are too many variables to have a hard line agreement. First off, no one like jumping 25+ jumps to get to the new incursion, and no one (despite what I must admit to be very good propaganda) likes to be without any highsec incursions. As such, incursions that meet those two variables tend to stay up longer, but there is nothing stopping people from doing what they want to do, and that is how it should be. Just a small example but I think you get the point.

    Bans are whatever. I have been flying with ISN for long enough now that I wouldn't fly with anyone else anyway, and with all the ISN hate, why should I? I trust my ship and I trust the members in ISN (I know, in EVE? What?!?!).

    I am not really sure about your last point. I agree that multiple incursions going down at the same time is annoying, but it is what it is, and you deal with it. After all, this is a sandbox.

    Good Day Blink
    Jack Miton
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #7 - 2013-03-25 00:47:05 UTC
    Incursion runners are so cute...
    They're almost like real organizations!

    There is no Bob.

    Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

    Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
    Thur Barbek
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #8 - 2013-03-25 13:55:53 UTC
    Miles Forrester wrote:

    Contesting:
  • Honor based (Shiny fleet contesting a T1 fleet in headquarter sites should be discouraged but not forbidden).


    • Or... maybe you should stop flying in **** T1 fleets. Go do scout sites if you want to use bad ships/fits.
    Athena Themis
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #9 - 2013-03-25 14:06:14 UTC
    This is destined to backfire in a hilarious manner.
    Eight Two
    SWIFT Inc.
    #10 - 2013-03-25 18:28:33 UTC
    So... why exactly don't you alliance up a couple of communities and wardec every single other Corp that tries to contest your sites?

    A farmville agreement will get you nowhere in the long term anyways, it's forcing your take on things down other people's throats. May as well prevent the eventual trainwreck from happening to you by becoming the trainwreck yourself.

    200 man Mach blobs going for 150 Nightmares should sure be a sight to behold and get you guys to blow of some steam.
    Kranyoldlady
    Women's cave
    #11 - 2013-03-25 18:57:59 UTC
    Maby i can shed some light here.

    Its not Miles who has issues when contested, it is tvp who has them.
    So they went talking to din who now blobs isn and isn only, because isn is the only one in hq's that puts up a fight for the site.
    To accommodate all inc runners in high sec, this was written down.

    Note that "this" is merely what happened after the last 3 days of no incursion, over a time period of 4 days, what you see mentioned in the op, is what took place in high sec in the first new incursion.


    Now it was possible due to 3 days of absolute boredom, no isk making, whatever.
    But it is a pretty sad thing if we can only get along with each other after a 3 day of no incursion period.

    just my 2 cents :)
    Tommy Wings
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #12 - 2013-03-25 19:48:42 UTC
    So moral of the story.

    Team DIN (angry Germans) - doesnt want any competition for sites. ISN fleet members are the only ones allowed to fly and fit the ships they fly the way they do. (CCP needs to fix this)

    Team TVP - just want to say F-it and dont really care one way or the other. But if someone can tell others not to bother the underskilled drake fleets it would be appreciated.

    Team ISN- Has bought out CCP and forbids other fleets from getting the skills, ships, or mods that they use and fly. (total BS CCP)

    I think this should be fixed in the upcoming expansion in June.

    I hope this stays here and doesnt get moved to a dev blog about exploits.
    DarthNefarius
    Minmatar Heavy Industries
    #13 - 2013-03-25 20:10:22 UTC
    Eight Two wrote:
    So... why exactly don't you alliance up a couple of communities and wardec every single other Corp that tries to contest your sites?


    They'll just switch to shell corps 
    An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
    DarthNefarius
    Minmatar Heavy Industries
    #14 - 2013-03-25 20:13:58 UTC
    Eight Two wrote:

    A farmville agreement will get you nowhere in the long term anyways, it's forcing your take on things down other people's throats. May as well prevent the eventual trainwreck from happening to you by becoming the trainwreck yourself.



    The old agreement held for over a year with only a few hiccups... no reason except CCP changing Incursion mechanics again for this one to last as long.
    An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
    Zircon Dasher
    #15 - 2013-03-25 20:21:26 UTC
    DarthNefarius wrote:

    The old agreement held for over a year with only a few hiccups... no reason except CCP changing Incursion mechanics again for this one to last as long.


    Who said they aren't going to make more changes? I think the words used were "we don't like comfortable".Twisted



    Yeah right, who am i kiddin!Lol

    Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
    BlackPyroStorm
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #16 - 2013-03-25 20:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: BlackPyroStorm
    The old agreement worked for those communities that were in it because a majority wanted a mindless grind of incursions.

    Contests only existed on a VG level for a long time and if you've only a small number of people in the losing fleet there will be less people disappointed in occurrence of a loss compared with say HQ site, leaving 3 logical options, adapt, move and/or try different sites.

    Now that a growing number of incursion communities have grown to a scale where doing HQ sites is possible, the HQ sites are 1. able to accommodate more people and 2. more profitable. With greater competition for the limited amount of sites ofc contests will happen. And it comes back to the same problem that once and does somewhat still exist in vanguard sites, only exception being a greater number of people become inconvenienced upon losing a site.
    What has never helped any of this 'drama' is the banning of pilots from one community just for flying/being associated with another.
    Goldiiee
    Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
    #17 - 2013-03-25 21:08:11 UTC
    Tommy Wings wrote:
    So moral of the story.

    Team DIN (angry Germans) - doesnt want any competition for sites. ISN fleet members are the only ones allowed to fly and fit the ships they fly the way they do. (CCP needs to fix this)

    Team TVP - just want to say F-it and dont really care one way or the other. But if someone can tell others not to bother the underskilled drake fleets it would be appreciated.

    Team ISN- Has bought out CCP and forbids other fleets from getting the skills, ships, or mods that they use and fly. (total BS CCP)

    I think this should be fixed in the upcoming expansion in June.

    I hope this stays here and doesnt get moved to a dev blog about exploits.

    I am not sure where your train of thought ended up, or how you got there.
    Has someone told you there were special fittings not allowed in Incursion?
    Who bought CCP..... ISN is preventing others from getting skills..... really confused here.
    Are you expecting some new expansion fix for Incursions?
    And what Exploit?

    I am really not trolling, I want to know where you were going with this. Or at least where you got the ideas?

    Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
    Dato Koppla
    Neuronix
    #18 - 2013-03-25 22:45:03 UTC
    Wow so much drama, I only incursioned when VGs were lolOP, glad I got out of it =/
    Morgan Torry
    Arma Purgatorium
    #19 - 2013-03-26 06:17:26 UTC
    >Read "15" at the smallest optimal (assuming VGs)

    >Don't recognize the OP's name.

    >Removing the aspect of community cohesion and identification because "lol let's be friends"




    yeah this will never work, period. Nice try, 7/10 I think.

    Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
    DarthNefarius
    Minmatar Heavy Industries
    #20 - 2013-03-26 06:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
    Goldiiee wrote:

    And what Exploit?



    Actually there used to be a exploit b4 CCP fixed it: you use to be able to shoot Sansha structures in sites with little to no resistances when some1 came in to contest & win sites due to the high DPS done on them

    The old communities got together & stifled it at about he same time CCP fixed the incursion mechanics bug I seem to recall
    An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
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