These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Isn't it about time suicide ganking was fixed? (Not removed, just made harder).

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#61 - 2011-10-15 18:33:57 UTC
All these threads about miners getting ganked just prove the mining barges are plain terribly designed

Lol
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-10-15 18:40:37 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Dont remove ganking just ban GSF


I agree! Ban these annoying bastards! I can't believe they're doing this. What do they think this is, a sandbox game?

:whisper whisper:

Huh? What? GSF means what? Goonswarm Fe... Oh crap, that's us!

No, wait, DON'T ban GSF!


I think it's hilarious and sad ... well, mostly hilarious ... that the entirety of the EVE Online Economy is hedging on a few hundred bots bringing in oxytopes for the various POSes et all.

What's even more sad is that the complacent pubbies who are helping ruin the game are more upset at Goonswarm fighting back against the bots than they are at the bots. Puts things in perspective.

(Hint: The perspective is: Fat AFK pubbies are lazy and dumb.)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#63 - 2011-10-15 18:45:55 UTC
Captain Jackoff wrote:
In light of how easily the goons have been able to clear gallente space of ice miners, I say the time has finally come to fix suicide ganking. Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this.

I can think of two changes, one of which that should have been made a long time ago.

Insurance needs to be voided if the person dies to concord. Being able to gank targets in hi sec at little to no cost is stupid. Gankers being able to take up insurance so they can get paid to throw away their ships by comitting a crime is also stupid.

Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec, but they fail at this. I suggest that concord response times are greatly improved. It should still be possible to gank a target, but you'll need more firepower and there's a high risk of concord taking you out before you destroy your target.

These changes won't stop people from ganking each other in hi-sec, but anything that makes it harder will make a huge difference.
The name fits you sir. Oh and no, it's working as intended. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#64 - 2011-10-15 18:57:30 UTC
Captain Jackoff wrote:
In light of how easily the goons have been able to clear gallente space of ice miners, I say the time has finally come to fix suicide ganking. Everybody is too afraid to mine gallente ice in hi-sec. What happend to concord? Oh that's right, concord are all but worthless in this.


CONCORD is working as intended.

Captain Jackoff wrote:
Insurance needs to be voided if the person dies to concord. Being able to gank targets in hi sec at little to no cost is stupid. Gankers being able to take up insurance so they can get paid to throw away their ships by comitting a crime is also stupid.


On that note, an insurance company shouldn't pay you if you're mining ice in an area where hundreds of ice mining ships have been killed. Don't you agree?

Captain Jackoff wrote:
Concord needs to be improved, they are supposed to deter ganking from occuring in hi-sec, but they fail at this. I suggest that concord response times are greatly improved. It should still be possible to gank a target, but you'll need more firepower and there's a high risk of concord taking you out before you destroy your target.


No. That is not the intention of the mechanic. High-sec is supposed to be a part of space where "criminal" aggression has consequences, not where you can PvE with any safety. The current mechanics are fine as they are.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#65 - 2011-10-15 19:06:39 UTC
Suicide ganking is just fine, concord has been buffed over and over going directly against the concept of the sandbox. The simple fact is that any miner worth their salt could use this as nothing but a giant opportunity to make decent isk off of ice when the competition is under so much duress and market is ripe with opportunity.

Instead they want more concord buffs because collectively the Ice mining community wants to bot or be as near afk as possible while mining. If you can't be assed to pay attention or be aware of your surroundings you stand to lose your ship and should. High sec should under no circumstances be exempt from the slaughter of careless, lazy, exploitative and unimaginative pilots who have the easiest ride in the game.

Goonswarm is doing a great service keeping the space lanes clear of garbage.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
#66 - 2011-10-15 19:24:17 UTC
Um... mine in a BS... prob solved...

O WAIT that means into a can, so you need a frined or a alt to haul for you... and that means more work...

So it is not so much mining is not safe... it is... "I want easy no work isk... that I can't be killed getting."

BS can mine almost as much as a hulk, is not gona be ganked BUT has way less cargo...

Hulk HUGE cargo... was less tank.

Anything else to cry about?
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#67 - 2011-10-15 19:35:49 UTC
supersexysucker wrote:
Um... mine in a BS... prob solved...

O WAIT that means into a can, so you need a frined or a alt to haul for you... and that means more work...

So it is not so much mining is not safe... it is... "I want easy no work isk... that I can't be killed getting."

BS can mine almost as much as a hulk, is not gona be ganked BUT has way less cargo...

Hulk HUGE cargo... was less tank.

Anything else to cry about?



Can't mine ice in a non-ORE ship.

That said, I can get a Mack up to ~17k EHP, which is more than enough to survive a shot from a Galtpest.
Infinimo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2011-10-15 20:06:23 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
What CONCORD needs to do is instant warp in regardless of sec status, pop the ship and void the warranty on insurance, and a little something extra for good measure pop the pod with a scrambling ray that fuxxors up your clone regardless if its updated or not, you will still loose SP. As for throw away alts in destroyers, buff exhumers and bargers by a factor of 5x to the hitpoints + 75% resist across the board + another 3 low slots (Bulk Head, Bulk Head, DCU, Inert Stab, Inert Stab = beefy yet almost graceful as a swan when it aligns) )so it takes even more destroyers to get a Hulk (its an MMO, bring friends Roll ). Oh, and another idea I had for laughs is PVE insurance flag for the ship....a 90 period where if your destroyed doing a PVE activity (I know, Battlehulk but thats rare) no kill mail is generated to give them a good kick in the nuts cause they will have proof of their activities Lol

hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahhaahahaa

edit: hahaha

Theta Squad best squad. Monocle crew represent~
Valhallas
New Eden Robotics
#69 - 2011-10-15 20:07:51 UTC
This new forum is a pile of pork sword juice.

It just ate my post and i'm not bloody typing it again.

TLDR was - I like suicide ganking, it's fun, and it boosts the market for meta 1 and 2 items. Its also unfair as alpha tempest dus the job, no questions asked.
Angelo Doelman
Bacon Diplomacy Project
#70 - 2011-10-15 20:15:41 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.


No.

There is no defence to N+1 ganking.

If your ship can survive 1 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring two.
If your ship can survive 2 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring three.
If your ship can survive 3 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring four.

Do you see a pattern here?
Alara IonStorm
#71 - 2011-10-15 20:29:02 UTC
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.


No.

There is no defence to N+1 ganking.

If your ship can survive 1 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring two.
If your ship can survive 2 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring three.
If your ship can survive 3 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring four.

Do you see a pattern here?

Yeah the pattern is that suicide ganks are part of the game. That is no excuse for these ships to have 0 ability to fit a tank in return for sacrifice of yield or cargo. Barges could stand a bit more flexibility in their environment.

As for your Gank pattern that is part of EVE, you could try STO.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2011-10-15 20:29:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Igualmentedos wrote:
If you ABSOLUTELY want to kill someone, you should be able to do it no matter where they are, but it should actually cost some isk.
Fun fact: it does, even with insurance.
Quote:
I disagree, the purpose for suicide ganking should be to eliminate your opponent, and in rare circumstances you would be able to turn a profit.
So… why should it be disincentivised? And why should it only be profitable under rare circumstances?
Quote:
overall, you should lose a great deal of ISK in the process (depending on target and your ship).
Insurance should be removed for those smacked down by concord.
Why?



I understand it costs money to suicide gank. I'm saying it should cost more. Also, why do you think its a bad idea to lower the amount of suicide ganking?
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-10-15 20:31:56 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Igualmentedos wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Esagila wrote:
Definitely agree that people who die to concord should not get an insurance payout upon their death.
That would lessen the incentives to suicide gank people. Bad idea.



I disagree, the purpose for suicide ganking should be to eliminate your opponent, and in rare circumstances you would be able to turn a profit. overall, you should lose a great deal of ISK in the process (depending on target and your ship).

Insurance should be removed for those smacked down by concord.


It would happen almost as much, because yes, your tears are in fact that tasty. Every single time someone gets upset, it justifies every single cost involved in getting those tears to flow, because you must achieve op success at any cost.

Tears(anyone but their own, honestly) just make them want to do it again... Once again, no matter the cost.

Oh, and from experience, a corpies tears because a gank failed, or because you thought being ganked was actually kinda cool when he was going through saltwater withdrawals are almost as tasty as yours, just harder to get(its so easy to make highseccers cry)


My tears? I don't even own a mining ship sweety Big smile
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2011-10-15 20:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Igualmentedos wrote:
I understand it costs money to suicide gank. I'm saying it should cost more.
And I'm asking: why?
Quote:
Also, why do you think its a bad idea to lower the amount of suicide ganking?
Because you haven't given any reason why it's needed.

…also, because they're far too few as it is.
Valhallas
New Eden Robotics
#75 - 2011-10-15 20:40:44 UTC
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.


No.

There is no defence to N+1 ganking.

If your ship can survive 1 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring two.
If your ship can survive 2 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring three.
If your ship can survive 3 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring four.

Do you see a pattern here?


OK, lets say for arguments sake my hulk (i can't fly a hulk and never will) can survive 30 gank boats with a value 4 times more than my hulk after insurance payback. You still up for the gank?

Though not, don't bring stupid to the forum pls.
Angelo Doelman
Bacon Diplomacy Project
#76 - 2011-10-15 20:49:53 UTC
Valhallas wrote:
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.


No.

There is no defence to N+1 ganking.

If your ship can survive 1 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring two.
If your ship can survive 2 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring three.
If your ship can survive 3 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring four.

Do you see a pattern here?


OK, lets say for arguments sake my hulk (i can't fly a hulk and never will) can survive 30 gank boats with a value 4 times more than my hulk after insurance payback. You still up for the gank?

Though not, don't bring stupid to the forum pls.

You, as others have already mentioned, continue to forget that FUN in eve is what people want. For some (I guess) could find that in shooting ice. For others, fun can be had shooting people having fun, shooting ice.

So. Yes, if I can extract FUN with 30 ships with a collective value 4 times greater than your ship, then I will still shoot your ship.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2011-10-15 20:54:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Igualmentedos wrote:
I understand it costs money to suicide gank. I'm saying it should cost more.
And I'm asking: why?
Quote:
Also, why do you think its a bad idea to lower the amount of suicide ganking?
Because you haven't given any reason why it's needed.

…also, because they're far too few as it is.


I feel there are too many suicide ganks, and that they are too easy to perform. Also, there is little to no counter to them. If i bring a gank brutix to kill your hulk and I fail, I'll just bring more, and insurance will cover a large majority of the cost. Unless there is some form of defense I'm not aware of, then please enlighten me. Otherwise I think we can just agree to disagree and that's all. Let CCP decide, it's their game after all.

Bolded the important part because it seems like miners have no way of avoiding a gank at all, aside from completely abstaining from mining.

That is why I feel it should cost more and I would like to hear why you think more suicide ganks are needed.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2011-10-15 20:55:36 UTC
Valhallas wrote:
OK, lets say for arguments sake my hulk (i can't fly a hulk and never will) can survive 30 gank boats with a value 4 times more than my hulk after insurance payback. You still up for the gank?

Though not, don't bring stupid to the forum pls.


I remember having this same discussion with my friends back in the day.

I was 8. It was either Final Fantasy bosses or Pro Wrestlers. I think we decided Sargent Slaughter could beat up Lich but Kraken would probably take him.

(I guess what I'm saying is this is a dumb argument and you should feel bad.)
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2011-10-15 20:57:40 UTC
Valhallas wrote:
Angelo Doelman wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I think changes need to be made...

To the ships. Mining Barges have almost no room for tank. A fully tanked Hulk with a DCU, Hardeners, Extenders, CDFE Rigs runs close to 30k EHP. If you fully tank it properly it should be designed to be 45-60k. Make it so mining Barges can host a good Shield Tank, Pro:15k, Retty:25k, Covi:30k.

Give these people a fighting chance to tank there ships if they so choose. Same with Industrials and such.


No.

There is no defence to N+1 ganking.

If your ship can survive 1 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring two.
If your ship can survive 2 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring three.
If your ship can survive 3 [insert FOTM gank boat], they will bring four.

Do you see a pattern here?


OK, lets say for arguments sake my hulk (i can't fly a hulk and never will) can survive 30 gank boats with a value 4 times more than my hulk after insurance payback. You still up for the gank?

Though not, don't bring stupid to the forum pls.


Apparently you've totally missed the point. I'd still be down for that gank just to prove you that I can do it and to collect the tears from the "invulnerable" miracle hulk.
Jita Alt666
#80 - 2011-10-15 21:01:48 UTC
Dear Ice Mining High Sec Carebears.

Hire a decent mercenary corp to war dec those pesky goons. Have them in belt with you and camping gates and statioon undocks while you mine.

If you can't afford that with the current prices of Oxygen Isotopes - you are playing eve incorrectly

Yours Faithfully
Jita Alt666

P.S. OP CCP are working as intended.