These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Let It Go
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2013-03-30 03:51:42 UTC
Sorjat wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:

"If you believe destroying one titan has crippled the State's defenses, you're extremely naive."

++++

Monsieur Khross, I thank you for you input sir, however, I can assure you that I am not naive. Not at all. Indeed I consider my people and the Gallentian Senate truly naive, however, I digress.

As I know some of my fellow citizens who have voiced their peaceful intentions here are absolutely sincere in their beliefs and I firmly believe it will be their undoing. The result is only more Gallentean sufferring, more of our systems invaded, more titans crashed on our worlds... billions sufferring... c'est dégueulasse!

As for Caldari resources and resourcefullness I assure you I am fully aware of what you are capable of sir... hence why, even though it pains me so much to say it... there is no alternative. My people do not believe in absolutes so I have trouble convincing them of this. I think though, just perhaps, with the great affront and injury you have done us this time that I may be able to convince them.

One other comment Monsieur, it is not your defenses that trouble me, not at all. Au contraire mon ami, it is your multiple offenses that bother me a great deal!

I bid you adieu.

Sorjat,
Gallentian Capsuleer.


Peace, while harder to create and maintain than hate, is the best solution for both our peoples - but only whilst both sides are truly interested in negotiation.

No besieger, no invader can hold Caldari Prime by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for Home. Against that power tyrants and fleets cannot stand. The Gallente learned that lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Although it take a thousand years, we will come Home.

So. Send us your young men and women and your fleets. We will send back scrap metal, blinded cripples and above all, boxes draped with that eagle flag that you love so much. As much misery as you seek to export to us, that much more will we send back to you.

The State has always prided itself on being a good trading partner.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#82 - 2013-03-30 04:42:35 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

So. Send us your young men and women and your fleets. We will send back scrap metal, blinded cripples and above all, boxes draped with that eagle flag that you love so much. As much misery as you seek to export to us, that much more will we send back to you.


Oh no. Let us be generous. I insist.
Sorjat
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-03-30 04:47:12 UTC
My Lady Scherezad,

I humbly beg your forgiveness. In my haste I neglected to properly proof-read my last missive to this medium. The vagaries of copy-paste and my haste... alas there is no excuse. Please accept my sincere apologies in mixing your name with that of someone else.

I have logged many hours with my Minmatar friends, in particular a corporation from your space, there are many an agent within Freedom Extension who call me a friend and I consider Minmatar space my home. As close to me as Gallente space. I must admit though, your disaproval wounds me as only that of a dagger borne by a friend, and in particular, one as fair as yourself!

So why would our allies the Minmatar disprove of my desire to prosecute those who perpetrate gross injustice? Peace cannot be offered by only one party and where the Caldari are concerned their State is maintained by victories, perceived victories and defeats distorted to appear as victories. Peace to the Caldari is the interlude between war. It is the time where they muster before an attack. Peace by conquest always necessitating more conquest... an old story.

To my friends and family both Gallente and Minmatar I say this. You may not wish to carry a sword but know that you can still die upon one. The Caldari state is utterly totalitarian, imbedded in the structure of this ideology is the requirement to always destroy the 'other'. They desire only victory. They understand only death.

Truly there are some enlightened individuals among the Caldari. I know this to be true as I have flown among them, alas, it matters not. The only opinion of any consequence is that of the Caldari State Executor Tibus Heth... 'Emperor Heth'. Your reasonableness, like your beauty, is a flower in the desert, will die at the hands of the Caldari.

Like so many Gallentians, Minmatarians who have offered their opinions I know your desire for peace to be sincere. I love you all for this. Your love of life shines like a beacon of hope for this galaxy. Regrettably love will not free the galaxy from tyranny. War will come to you and given the choice you can fight it either on your home or the planets from whence the invaders came. While neither is desirable, I choose the latter. Tis a fool who would leave his enemies with the initiative to pick the time and place of battles. The destruction wrought by the Shiigeru is but a small taste of what is to come. And they will come... they must. A defeat strikes at the heart of the legitimacy of the State it cannot go unanswered. Their political system and indoctrination demands it. They prepare now as we speak.

Know that I will stand and fight by your side when either the Caldari or the Amarrians enter Minmatar or Gallente space. I will fight until my ship is destroyed, the last of my life support succombs to enemy fire and my body reduced to mere molecules. I will die a good death to defend the ideals we share. That being said, it would be far better to take the combat to our enemies, to spill ourblood over their skies and above all... to crash a titan into their worlds. There can be no peace without justice.

I hate what I have become, as I have become what I hate. I don't enjoy this any more than you do but there are no other options. I beg you to sign my petition that I will present to the Federal Senate. Simple yet direct, I am asking for a DECLARATION OF WAR against the Calderi and for a naval expedition to invade their space. The time for half-measures and talk is over. As there must be war, let us fight it among the barbarians that your beautiful ideals endure forever.

Sorjat,
Gallentian Capsuleer

Insanity is not hubris, not pride; it is inflation of the ego to its ultimate - confusion between him who worships and that which is worshipped. Man has not eaten God; God has eaten man.

-- PKD
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#84 - 2013-03-30 05:10:34 UTC
Come then. You're a fool and you'll die like one.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#85 - 2013-03-30 06:59:42 UTC
Streya Jormagdnir wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Right... so back to the wormhole plan, then... Ugh


You called?

Kidding aside, I too have thought of the advantages of moving the entire planet. If we could only understand how the natural wormholes form in the predictable manners they do, we might be able to make a wormhole of our own. Of course, Sansha's Nation already possesses wormhole generation technology, though the mass limitations are still a problem for such a task.


Pish-tush, gather up all the Isogen-5 you can find and blow a hole in space!

If the Ur -Civilization can do it, so can we.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#86 - 2013-03-30 11:40:27 UTC
Executor Tibus Heth was born on Caldari Prime, debunking the myth that a Caldari living on their homeworld has to live as a Gallentean.
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#87 - 2013-03-30 11:46:52 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


Peace, while harder to create and maintain than hate, is the best solution for both our peoples - but only whilst both sides are truly interested in negotiation.

No besieger, no invader can hold Caldari Prime by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for Home. Against that power tyrants and fleets cannot stand. The Gallente learned that lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Although it take a thousand years, we will come Home.

So. Send us your young men and women and your fleets. We will send back scrap metal, blinded cripples and above all, boxes draped with that eagle flag that you love so much. As much misery as you seek to export to us, that much more will we send back to you.

The State has always prided itself on being a good trading partner.


Do not mistake the words of one fool for the will of the Gallente populace and the Federation at large. I know you to be a reasonable man, there are other avenues available in the future for both our peoples. Let the more reasonable minds work towards them.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-03-30 12:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Sorjat wrote:
I hate what I have become, as I have become what I hate. I don't enjoy this any more than you do but there are no other options.


There are always other options. The problem in your case is a failure in your conviction to explore them.

If you'd sacrifice your principles and your conscience then you don't truly have either. If you won't stand for what you believe in, then you never truly believed it. As I have already said, losing who you are and what you believe is a defeat condition.

If you betray everything you are in the name of survival then what, exactly, have you preserved? Your pulse? Your neural activity? Your capacity to write poetry and perform calculus? Those things will be gone in the end anyway.

I don't believe in an afterlife or any kind of a governing sentience. I believe that nothing we do actually matters in any kind of a cosmic way - the universe isn't capable of appreciating or valuing our actions. But if nothing we do matters, then that means what we do is all that matters.

We capsuleers like to call ourselves immortals but the fact is that even if we don't succumb to ennui over the coming centuries, then entropy is going to catch us all anyway, someday. The universe is on a long, slow march toward being too cold and poor in hydrogen to sustain us. You can't beat thermodynamics. So, we're mortal too. Ever since I first realised that death is still an inevitability for us, I find that I've gone back to my old philosophy that if I must die - and I must - then I would rather die with the satisfaction that I never betrayed myself and never hated who I was or what I did.

Right now, you won't be able to say that. You should maybe reconsider.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#89 - 2013-03-30 12:23:13 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Do not mistake the words of one fool for the will of the Gallente populace and the Federation at large. I know you to be a reasonable man, there are other avenues available in the future for both our peoples. Let the more reasonable minds work towards them.


There are no reasonable minds in the Roden Administration or the secret police of Blaque's Eagles. Whatever saccharine words are offered by Federal apologists and hypocrites who on the one hand speak of peace yet condone the policies of their government to continue armed conflict against the State are like dust in the wind for the Caldari soldiers tasked with defending our nation. We do not set the political agendas - to think otherwise is the height of pretension - we just spill the blood as required by the dictates of our duty.

The time for discussion, debate or negotiation is long past for the die have now been cast. Let them fall as the Fates decree.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-03-30 14:28:45 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Executor Tibus Heth was born on Caldari Prime, debunking the myth that a Caldari living on their homeworld has to live as a Gallentean.

Despite that, his resolve to return the planet shows counterwise: how bad caldari peoples lived there during gallentean occupation. From my little experience being stationed in gallente territory I fully agree with these actions.

And now it is our duty to protect the Home World, even if this will mean to get rid of every single gallentean in Luminaire.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#91 - 2013-03-30 19:33:54 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

There are no reasonable minds in the Roden Administration or the secret police of Blaque's Eagles. Whatever saccharine words are offered by Federal apologists and hypocrites who on the one hand speak of peace yet condone the policies of their government to continue armed conflict against the State are like dust in the wind for the Caldari soldiers tasked with defending our nation. We do not set the political agendas - to think otherwise is the height of pretension - we just spill the blood as required by the dictates of our duty.

The time for discussion, debate or negotiation is long past for the die have now been cast. Let them fall as the Fates decree.


Then you assert that you are a blind soldier and nothing more. Pitiful.

Then do as your duty demands of you, I would expect no less. Do not be offended when we do likewise (and have).
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#92 - 2013-03-30 20:19:02 UTC
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Caldari Prime will forever be the ancestral home of the Caldari people. We have made mistakes and we have learned from them, this will be no different.

Perhaps Ishukone sets an important precedent with diplomacy in how we could achieve our end goal. We must ask ourselves, if our end goal is to reclaim our home world, why would be averse to doing so through diplomacy? We have a measure of pride that would prevent us from kneeling and begging and I would never condone such activity. But honest diplomacy? There is a way to obtain what is important, our home back.

If our end goal is the punishment of the Gallente and to deal to them a black eye as they have done to us, then can we not be honest enough to state that as our end goal rather than claiming our end goal is reclaiming home?

To the original post, many of us would give and do nearly anything to see Caldari Prime once again be home to the Caldari and a Caldari populace. Simply "giving it up" is not an option.


Mr Khross, you are one of the Caldari who I respect the most in this conflict.
While a stauch defender of your people you have the wisdom to see through the mass of barbarity and insult thrown about by both your peers and the gallente.

I saw a quote recently that encapsulates this entire conflict.

Caldari Prime is the homeworld of the Caldari people.
New Caldari is the homeworld of the Caldari state.

It would seem that these two things, especially in recent years, are no longer one and the same.

the inverse is also true, Gallente prime is not the seat of power for the Federation, that lies in the nearby system of Villore.

If it was not for this war, the people of Caldari would be able to visit or even stay upon the planet in question. Even given that it resides within Federation space. The problem, especially in the last 5 years is simply one of sovereignty. Not exactly even of the planet but of the space surrounding the planet.

It has been shown that even under Federate control, the people of Caldari Prime lived in a remarkably Caldari way. The local customs of the Caldari people were created over generations as survival traits for a harsh and unforgiving world. These traits are picked up by settlers from many backgrounds, or the settlers do not survive. This is the beauty of your world. It hones people into survivors.

So. In the end, this conflict can be boiled down to pride. Neither side wishes to have the other in control of the space surrounding Caldari Prime. Nor are they willing to have it set to a neutral party.

The reality of the situation though is this, The system is within Federation space, Any attempt to force Caldari sovereignty over the space surrounding Caldari prime is likely to result in more debris falling upon your home.

It is time to try something else. Free access to the planet could be arranged, a separate government could be negotiated, much like the intaki assembly, yes, they would be answerable to the Federation senate, but they could be Caldari people, living upon their homeworld and working towards the interests of the planet Caldari Prime.

The State and Federation will likely never see eye to eye on this or many other matters, but that does not mean that the people of Caldari Prime should have no voice. At the moment, they are being used as nothing more than a bargaining chip, and that MUST stop.

Perhaps this outsider's perspective on the matter is skewed. Perhaps there can be no hope.
But i do firmly believe that given the right to self government, even if as a part of the federation and not the state, the people of Caldari Prime would be better served than they have been these past few years.

I lost two crews in Luminaire satiating my rage against the State, much to the horror of my current employer. ~smirks~

But you two are wise and I suspect honorable men. I hope people listen to you.

Surly now with a little reason and restraint a way to peace can be found.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#93 - 2013-03-30 21:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
James Syagrius wrote:

I lost two crews in Luminaire satiating my rage against the State, much to the horror of my current employer. ~smirks~

But you two are wise and I suspect honorable men. I hope people listen to you.

Surly now with a little reason and restraint a way to peace can be found.


Sad to say, I remember the death of one of your crews from tht day with more fondness than is entirely healthy. But then, I see that smirk and I console myself that this is entirely natural.

Peace has always been well within the grasp of the Federation, I hope they decide to reach for it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#94 - 2013-03-30 21:18:31 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Executor Tibus Heth was born on Caldari Prime, debunking the myth that a Caldari living on their homeworld has to live as a Gallentean.


But it does beg the question of what kind of life the Gallente majority offer (inflict?) upon the Caldari minority to create men like Mr.Heth in the first place. Surely a childhood lived without discrimination or prejudice would not produce adults so filled with nationalistic xenophobia? Hatred is not innate - it is taught, whether we realize it or not. So who taught Mr.Heth to be so filled with hate? His kinsmen... or his neighbors? I am not saying that this is exactly the case, but it would be equally foolish to discount it's possibility.

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#95 - 2013-03-30 21:41:19 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Peace has always been well within the grasp of the Federation, I hope they decide to reach for it.


Peace is a two-way street, Monsieur Tuulinen.

You know as well as I do that neither the State nor the Federation have been reaching for peace.
Toluijin Chagangan
Doomheim
#96 - 2013-03-30 22:25:17 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Executor Tibus Heth was born on Caldari Prime, debunking the myth that a Caldari living on their homeworld has to live as a Gallentean.


But it does beg the question of what kind of life the Gallente majority offer (inflict?) upon the Caldari minority to create men like Mr.Heth in the first place. Surely a childhood lived without discrimination or prejudice would not produce adults so filled with nationalistic xenophobia? Hatred is not innate - it is taught, whether we realize it or not. So who taught Mr.Heth to be so filled with hate? His kinsmen... or his neighbors? I am not saying that this is exactly the case, but it would be equally foolish to discount it's possibility.


Indoctrination into the ways of the Templis Dragonaur is also likely to teach such hatred.

On a slightly different note, Given that you claim that hatred is taught, and it is the fault of those who are hated.
Do you still wonder why the Matari people Hate the Amarrians and people of the mandate?

Seven Tribes.
One Matari People.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#97 - 2013-03-31 01:02:42 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:

I lost two crews in Luminaire satiating my rage against the State, much to the horror of my current employer. ~smirks~

But you two are wise and I suspect honorable men. I hope people listen to you.

Surly now with a little reason and restraint a way to peace can be found.


Sad to say, I remember the death of one of your crews from tht day with more fondness than is entirely healthy. But then, I see that smirk and I console myself that this is entirely natural.

Peace has always been well within the grasp of the Federation, I hope they decide to reach for it.

The smirk my pretentious friend was for the reaction of my employer not the loss of my crew. So please don't dishonor them with false empty.

One hopes that one day you and your ilk will hold yourselves to the same standard you hold everyone else.

Perhaps then peace will come.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#98 - 2013-03-31 01:08:16 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:

The smirk my pretentious friend was for the reaction of my employer not the loss of my crew. So please don't dishonor them with false empty.

One hopes that one day you and your ilk will hold yourselves to the same standard you hold everyone else.

Perhaps then peace will come.


Be very grateful that I don't hold you to the standard I hold myself.


For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#99 - 2013-03-31 02:22:03 UTC
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
On a slightly different note, Given that you claim that hatred is taught, and it is the fault of those who are hated. Do you still wonder why the Matari people Hate the Amarrians and people of the mandate?


Umm... because it's what they teach their kids from the day they're born? She didn't say it's taught by those who are hated, only that it can be. When you hate someone because of what they did to you, that's their fault. When you hate someone for what their great-great-great grandpappy did to your great-great-great grandpappy, that's your parent's fault... or your government's.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#100 - 2013-03-31 04:15:34 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:

Then you assert that you are a blind soldier and nothing more. Pitiful.

Then do as your duty demands of you, I would expect no less. Do not be offended when we do likewise (and have).


Your pity is worthles when it is a sentiment expressed by the naive. And there can be no offense for those who have the patience to long suffer fools. Indeed, what fools the Federation must be to elect a President of their volition who manipulates their fears in order to risk an escalation of war that will enrich his military industries with the blood of its citizens and soldiers who willingly sacrifice their freedoms and liberties upon the altar of Blaque's Eagles for the promises of security.

I suffer no blindness for I clearly see where my own enemies lie. My intents and purpose however are not expressed like some in the State today with bellicose rhetoric and the waving of flags nor at the other extreme, the spineless capitulation to unenlightened self-interest at the expense of the Greater Good of our nation justified with the empty saccharine of liberal apologia.

The only assertion I would make is that this war finds its roots not upon the soils of Caldari Prime but in the corruption of ideals by those whom abuse their power and authority for their own sake - both in the State and in the Federation.




Kurilaivonen|Concern