Intergalactic Summit

It's really sad to see my countrymen behaving as such hypocrites--understandably sentimental hypocrites, but hypocrites all the same--rather than moving forward with what is profitable for all. Let go of the past. Nobody took away our culture. We've merely lost a rock. Twice.

As far as I'm concerned, we should be moving forward, not squandering time going back.

You are correct, it was an aggravated response and it should not have been posted.

I know very well of the shared history of the State and the Federation, even if I abridge it. From the start, the Federation moved against Caldari Prime to use it to strong arm the Caldari from seceding and into turning over colonies that the Federation had no claims to, and from the start elements of the Federation government were pushing for the attacks.

Perhaps you would elucidate on what is so different now that Caldari Prime seceding would be acceptable. I don't buy the drivel I've been given so far. The reason they didn't allow it then was because they wouldn't suffer another sovereignty so close to their capital, and as far as I can tell, that is the same exact reason now.


His other option was to sit idly by as the Gallente Navy bombed Caldari prime and shot down evacuation transports. If I might remind you, Tovil-Toba engaged in battles across the system. He didn't set out to ram the planet, he was shot down over Gallente Prime, and he made a military decision to inflict damage on his enemy just as they were inflicting damage on him and his people. It should also be noted that the ship was not guided to the impact site; it broke apart in the upper atmosphere, killing all aboard.


How is it greedy to want a thief to return something they stole?


No it wasn't a problem before. Up until that point, the Gallente immigrants let themselves assimilate into the culture. Since the schism it has somehow become an issue, and the Gallente population maintains their separation from the Caldari population. We can't consider them Caldari if they refuse the notion themselves.

If everyone on Caldari prime actually considered themselves Caldari, there would not have been Caldari boroughs, the Federation crackdowns would have affected everyone, and State crackdowns would have no reason to hit anyone.
That's not what happened. The two populations have maintained that there are, in fact, two separate populations. That goes completely against the suggestion you have made that simply living on the planet makes one a Caldari.



Both kinds are Caldari though just as all the different Families are still Amarr and just as the different Tribes are all Minmatar. Don't blame us for arrogance as far as the naming of our state goes, the State is made up of Caldari, so the name is an apt one. If you want to talk about arrogance, let's talk about the Gallente. The Federation was founded by the Gallente Caldari, Intaki and Manaar, but the Federation is named for the Gallente and their homeworld, and whenever someone talks about a citizen of the Federation, Gallente is the name used.

Just a quick few clarifications for historical accuracy purposes.

The Federation did technically have a claim on the colonies you reference. The Caldari megacorporations were signatories to the Federal Charter which meant their assets and operations were subject to the democratic delegation as were all corporations. That these colonies were built in secret does not remove them from this subjection. That was actually a large part of the original debate about these colonies to begin with.

As to your statement about elements of the Federation pushing for the attacks, those would be the Ultra-Nationalists that later took power and then were ousted by the populace for being entirely too inhumane and totalitarian.



Further clarification and I would ask that you at least maintain the integrity of history if you're going to use it in your arguments. Trying to skew it toward your favor does you no service.

Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba engaged precisely at Gallente Prime to begin with and then chose nearby areas to retreat to and strike again. His fleet was far more mobile and his tactics were superior. He did this specifically to distract the Federation Navy and permit the mass exodus from Caldari Prime that the State was trying to perform. When he was at last cornered and facing defeat, he was still shy of the necessary time to successfully evacuate Caldari Prime...it was a week, I believe. Either way, in order to keep the Federation distracted, he need to inflict further damage. He chose to set his damaged makeshift carrier directly at Gallente Prime knowing what would happen when it went down.

This action has been heralded by the State as heroic for centuries.



The division point would occur during the Kassigainen Standoff when the Caldari and Gallente populations on the planet became divided ethnically and started warring with one another. I



Again, strictly for clarification purposes: the proper name of the Federation is "The Federated Union of Gallente Prime" which was so named because it's capital was Gallente Prime. Citizens of the Federation refer to themselves as Federal Citizens without mention of race or planetary relation. The shortened term "Gallente Federation" was not actually coined by the Federation itself, but other nations in reference to it.

I am aware of the proper name for the Federation, yes, but the Gallente are still the face of the Federation through their own actions including the capital being their homeworld. If the Gallente are the Federation despite the presence of other entities, then it is hypocritical to call a nation founded by the Caldari to name said nation after themselves.

That discussion is entirely peripheral to the issue at hand though.

Not true. The two populations remained in a state of defacto segregation long before Heth came into power. When he did come in to power martial law was enacted, and the segregation became a dejurre factor; furthermore, the curfews were heavily biased against the Caldari people alone

While I won't claim all of the conflicts on Caldari Primes were a result of those actions, at least some of the violence was brought on by the ghettoization of the Caldari people. I do believe it is sad that my own government has mirrored those same actions and achieved the same results, but that's the kind of callus disregard I have come to expect from the Executor.


Yet they retained owenership after the cessation of hostilities whose continuation was at least partially predicated on that ownership.

As I said above, despite the actions of the Ultra-nationalists not being in popular opinion, the actions taken before and after show that Federation citizens supported the conflict in some part. Regardless of who caused the incident, it lead to your president stepping down which helped enable the coup, and has been pointed out in other threads by other people, those Ultra-nationalists in the senate were voted into office by the people; had they not been, they would not have been able to take over.

I do know Heth stands to benefit just as much from the turn of events, and if you haven't been keeping track, I have been very outspoken in my belief he should be removed from power immediately, but both sides need to remove their warmongers from power.

Monsieur Kraid,

Further deliberation on the topic can be done elsewhere lest I further detract from the original discussion.