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Intergalactic Summit

 
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An announcement.
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James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#41 - 2013-03-22 20:58:49 UTC
I will make no judgements. I give no accolades or recriminations. But simply, it is done. Finally, it is done. Many have died, many more will. Let us at least kill each other in silence.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-03-22 21:01:51 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I am glad that the Oblivion was not fired.

I am... beyond dismayed that even the preparations were made. Just recently I was arguing that such a thing was unthinkable.

My announcement and all declarations contained therein are retracted pending meditation on this subject and where I go from here.

Hakatain out...


Pilot Hakatain...

Perhaps this will sound odd or empty coming from me, but you have revealed more about your sense of honor and morality in this sentiment than most of us ever will. I sincerely pray you find a path that brings you both peace and honor in the days ahead, they will not be easy for any of us.

Lialus Raithe
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-03-22 21:04:04 UTC
Vikarion wrote:

Oh, for f***s sake. You haven't been a supporter of the State in any concrete way for years. You think it will make some difference now?

And from "Oh my, we lost home, I'd better rush back from aiding the enemy Republic to save the day" to "oh, wait, they might have fired their weapons? Well, guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing" in an hour? Pathetic.

Go join the rest of your family in the Federation. It won't be hard. You are, after all, working with them and the Republic already.


You are in absolutely no position to criticize the loyalty of any man. Not moments ago on these very boards you were bemoaning how the situation was a farce and everything was utterly hopeless. You were called out by your own kinsmen.

Be silent and let an honest man work through his troubles.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#44 - 2013-03-22 22:22:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
Considering her positioning for that length of time; I would be more willing to believe the Captain of the Shiigeru is responsible for not firing the doomsday weapon more than the Federation is for "switching targets" I suppose it doesn't matter much with all the debris raining on the planet now.

I cannot support the actions of a madman who would hold a planet captive, and I don't believe it is ever called for to kill civilians, BUT don't deny that there were insurgent forces groundside before today's battle, and the Federation has even been landing troops, even if most of them are mercenaries.

If it were truly about the titan and her doomsday, you wouldn't be invading. It's not about the Shiigeru at all, though. it's about the Federation being too arrogant to let yourselves peacefully coexist with Caldari in your midst. I won't claim my side's hands are clean; both sides have spilled blood over pointless bullshit, but at least have enough integrity to call this invasion for what it is.

The Titan was not there for the purposes of planetary bombardment. it was there the secure the safety of Caldari from the Federation Navy. The option was only brought up as a result to escalation which did not and should not have happened.
Mekhana wrote:
Tyrants and madmen are no 'legitimate authorities'.

For too long these men and women have been opressed by the Provists. This is way past the boiling point already.

Heth and his Provists are an internal matter. It is regrettable an extremist such as him has managed to grab some CEOs by the balls and is willing to order something so reprehensible, but the Federation has no right to get involved in matters of our government.

Didn't your own leader used to be a criminal or somesuch before his company caught a lucky break?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#45 - 2013-03-22 22:23:34 UTC
Hakatain-haan, should you decide to return home to the State, I'm certain we could use you in Pyre.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#46 - 2013-03-22 22:35:37 UTC
The captain of the Shiigeru decided not to fire her superweapon. Its the only logical conclusion. She had plenty of time to fire and, reviewing footage, I don't see how "bumping her out of alignment" had anything to do with it.

Its amazing. The Gallente seem unable to accept that the Caldari are more human in our "hypercapitalistic" meritocracy than they are with all their inefficient bureaucratic socialism. The brave captain lacked the resolve to commit genocide. It saved the life of millions of Caldari and Gallente alike.

Now the question of what will happen to Luminaire and its population hangs in the balance. I propose that in the name of Galactic Peace, a joint body of appointed leaders from both Gallente and Caldari be appointed immediately to govern Caldari Prime. I call for a no-fly zone to be established above the planet, and only transports carrying humanitarian supplies approved by this joint body to be allowed through.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#47 - 2013-03-22 23:19:40 UTC
Rall Mekin wrote:
The captain of the Shiigeru decided not to fire her superweapon. Its the only logical conclusion. She had plenty of time to fire and, reviewing footage, I don't see how "bumping her out of alignment" had anything to do with it.


It would be remarkable titans ever fired at all, otherwise....

But history is written by the winners, and so for the time being, the Caldari must simply accept that the only thing which came between their home planet and obliteration was a magnanimous Gallente fleet. Ludicrous as that contention may be, these things happen.

The best remedy is to write history, again.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-03-22 23:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Lialus Raithe wrote:
Vikarion wrote:

Oh, for f***s sake. You haven't been a supporter of the State in any concrete way for years. You think it will make some difference now?

And from "Oh my, we lost home, I'd better rush back from aiding the enemy Republic to save the day" to "oh, wait, they might have fired their weapons? Well, guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing" in an hour? Pathetic.

Go join the rest of your family in the Federation. It won't be hard. You are, after all, working with them and the Republic already.


You are in absolutely no position to criticize the loyalty of any man. Not moments ago on these very boards you were bemoaning how the situation was a farce and everything was utterly hopeless. You were called out by your own kinsmen.

Be silent and let an honest man work through his troubles.


My "kinsmen" have made a hobby of "calling me out". Half of them because they claim I love Heth, the other half because I'm not loyal to Heth. I've been fighting for the State longer than almost all of them, if not all. Some of them, such as I-RED, showed up to Caldari Prime with the intention of actually firing on the Titan if they thought they needed to. To hell with them.

This is a farce. It's even more of a farce for someone to call himself a Caldari loyalist while working for the Republic (a shoot-on-sight enemy of the State), to suddenly claim he's running back to the arms of the mother country when he finds out that the side he's been aiding has decided to do what they've been saying they'll do, and then reverse course fifteen minutes later when someone else (who is also an enemy of the State) claims that the Titan planned to fire (without proof of such, incidentally).

Hey, sure, the Oblivion weapon is omnidirectional and activates instantly, but any excuse is a good excuse to not support your homeland, right?

That's the sort of action one expects from someone completely without conviction or patriotism.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-03-22 23:29:17 UTC
Lialus Raithe wrote:


Civilians can take action against authorities, they are still civilians and they are still helpless against orbital bombardment.


Incorrect.

If they engage their enemy, and don uniforms, they are now enemy soldiers, and must be treated as POWs if they surrender.

If they engage their enemy, but don't don uniforms, they are unlawful combatants, and are treated as terrorists.

You are only a civilian if you do not participate in the ongoing war actively.


Soon, Caldari citizens on Caldari Prime will have that hard choice to make.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-03-22 23:40:41 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
No. She was threatening to fire. Just as she had been threatening to fire when her shields were still holding, at least thirty minutes before the reactor went out. Just as she had moved into place prior to the battle so that she would be able to fire.

If she had wanted to fire, she could have. She made threats, nothing more. It is clear she was holding back, regardless of what she may have broadcast across system channels.

There are only two reasons you would ever need to move a Leviathan-class Titan into low orbit of a planet:

1. To bombard something on the surface
2. To crash it into the planet

It had its weapons primed, its Oblivion device spooling and it was publicly declaring its intent to release ordinance on the planet. It wasn't there for sightseeing.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
#51 - 2013-03-22 23:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Popsikle
Stitcher wrote:
The Federation has lost all the respect it had earned from me. The Federal government has once again shown their contempt for peace, their disregard for common human decency, and their willingness to resort to violence rather than their own democratic principles when they encounter a dissenting voice.

I hereby declare myself an enemy of the Federation. Any pilots openly flying on the side of Federal Government on the matter of Caldari Prime will be Kill-On-Sight to me at least for the duration of the Homeworld Crisis, and so long as it is tactically practical for me to engage such pilots, I shall do so.

In accordance with this decision, it is with great sadness and regret that I must announce my immediate resignation from Re-Awakened Technologies and the cessation of my tenure as a member of the Board of Directors. I intend to resume my commission with the State Protectorate, for an indefinite duration. I am sorry my friends: I hope you understand that my Home is calling, and that I must answer. I solemnly affirm that I shall actively oppose all STPRO operations in Minmatar space, and will continue to lobby for peace between the State and the Republic.

Peace is my aim. But I understand that peace must paradoxically be defended by soldiers and violence. By the Winds if the only way to find peace is to blow a freezing gale, then I shall and I hope others will join me.

To my comrades: Fly well, shoot straight, show honour.

To my enemies: No hard feelings, but if you're going to side with thieves and genocidal maniacs then I'm just bringing what you deserve.

Hakatain Out.



Boy, the recruiting policies of RE-AW must have really slipped the last few years...

PS : Retraction or not, come get me, I supported our Federation Allies.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#52 - 2013-03-22 23:46:46 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

There are only two reasons you would ever need to move a Leviathan-class Titan into low orbit of a planet:

The original purpose for that ship and it's attendant fleet was to hold the Federation Navy at bay.

Heth's threat of orbital bombardment was a move of desperation ; if it had originally been put in orbit for the purpose of firing down, it would have done that years ago
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#53 - 2013-03-22 23:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
No. She was threatening to fire. Just as she had been threatening to fire when her shields were still holding, at least thirty minutes before the reactor went out. Just as she had moved into place prior to the battle so that she would be able to fire.

If she had wanted to fire, she could have. She made threats, nothing more. It is clear she was holding back, regardless of what she may have broadcast across system channels.

There are only two reasons you would ever need to move a Leviathan-class Titan into low orbit of a planet:

1. To bombard something on the surface
2. To crash it into the planet

It had its weapons primed, its Oblivion device spooling and it was publicly declaring its intent to release ordinance on the planet. It wasn't there for sightseeing.


Of course it was. And she should have fired, because those were her orders. It was what the State had threatened for years if the Federation decided to make an assault like it did tonight.

You seem to be ignoring what I am saying, mister Ixiris. Yes, she had a gun in her hands. Yes, she pointed it. Yes, she turned off the safety. Yes, she declared her intent to fire it. But when the order came down, she ultimately refused to pull the trigger (I do not believe it is so easy as mister Grideris believes to prevent a Leviathan from firing its weapon at an intended target, especially when it has been readied ahead of time, considering its angle of fire).

No one wanted to fire it. It was meant as a threat. A bluff. The Federation called it, and while Admiral Yanala made the preparations to carry out her orders, she ultimately refused or at least hesitated long enough for the Shiigeru to be destroyed. For that, the Federation and the residents of Caldari Prime are lucky.
Valdezi
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#54 - 2013-03-23 00:00:43 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Half of them because they claim I love Heth, the other half because I'm not loyal to Heth. I've been fighting for the State longer than almost all of them, if not all. Some of them, such as I-RED, showed up to Caldari Prime with the intention of actually firing on the Titan if they thought they needed to. To hell with them.

This is a farce. It's even more of a farce for someone to call himself a Caldari loyalist while working for the Republic (a shoot-on-sight enemy of the State), to suddenly claim he's running back to the arms of the mother country when he finds out that the side he's been aiding has decided to do what they've been saying they'll do, and then reverse course fifteen minutes later when someone else (who is also an enemy of the State) claims that the Titan planned to fire (without proof of such, incidentally).

Hey, sure, the Oblivion weapon is omnidirectional and activates instantly, but any excuse is a good excuse to not support your homeland, right?

That's the sort of action one expects from someone completely without conviction or patriotism.


To hell with you, Vikarion. People like you have a twisted concept of honour. God demand that we are righteous and reserves a furious vengeance for those who are not. A righteous man would never turn his weapon on a civilian planet, no matter the potential gain.

John Revenent has more honour in a single fallen eyelash than exists in any part of people such as you. Only he was prepared to save the state from itself, should it have been necessary. If the Titan had fired, the State would never have been the same. Someone had to be ready to protect the State from Heth.

So, we were there, protecting your home from invasion, and yet still you curse us, because of what we'd have been willing to do.

My closest friend broke ranks and attacked the Titan. I-RED fired on him. But I wonder now if he isn't the most courageous one.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-03-23 00:10:19 UTC
Valdezi wrote:

To hell with you, Vikarion. People like you have a twisted concept of honour. God demand that we are righteous and reserves a furious vengeance for those who are not. A righteous man would never turn his weapon on a civilian planet, no matter the potential gain.

John Revenent has more honour in a single fallen eyelash than exists in any part of people such as you. Only he was prepared to save the state from itself, should it have been necessary. If the Titan had fired, the State would never have been the same. Someone had to be ready to protect the State from Heth.

So, we were there, protecting your home from invasion, and yet still you curse us, because of what we'd have been willing to do.

My closest friend broke ranks and attacked the Titan. I-RED fired on him. But I wonder now if he isn't the most courageous one.


There is no god, and honor is a lie, because nothing we do matters. All of these things have been pre-determined by others outside of our ken. Whether the titan fires or not, how many ships show up on each side...the game is rigged. Or haven't you noticed that those around we capsuleers are behaving in increasingly odd and inexplicable ways? It's almost like we are the only real people.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#56 - 2013-03-23 00:18:52 UTC
Vikarion wrote:


There is no god, and honor is a lie, because nothing we do matters. All of these things have been pre-determined by others outside of our ken. Whether the titan fires or not, how many ships show up on each side...the game is rigged. Or haven't you noticed that those around we capsuleers are behaving in increasingly odd and inexplicable ways? It's almost like we are the only real people.


When you take yourself to the biomass tanks can I have your stuff?
Vikarion
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-03-23 00:22:50 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Vikarion wrote:


There is no god, and honor is a lie, because nothing we do matters. All of these things have been pre-determined by others outside of our ken. Whether the titan fires or not, how many ships show up on each side...the game is rigged. Or haven't you noticed that those around we capsuleers are behaving in increasingly odd and inexplicable ways? It's almost like we are the only real people.


When you take yourself to the biomass tanks can I have your stuff?


I'm more inclined to send you there. I'm simply not falling for the tripe we get in the news anymore.
iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#58 - 2013-03-23 01:39:09 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
Lialus Raithe wrote:


Civilians can take action against authorities, they are still civilians and they are still helpless against orbital bombardment.


Incorrect.

If they engage their enemy, and don uniforms, they are now enemy soldiers, and must be treated as POWs if they surrender.

If they engage their enemy, but don't don uniforms, they are unlawful combatants, and are treated as terrorists.

You are only a civilian if you do not participate in the ongoing war actively.


Soon, Caldari citizens on Caldari Prime will have that hard choice to make.


Damnit man.

Read the news. SoE messages from the planet noted that unarmed civilians were fighting against armed provists.

a civilian fighting for their life and home is not a terrorist.

That said, coming from you, i can understand that point of view. I'm sure every matari who didn't meekly accept a 'reclaiming' was an insurgent too, right?

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Adel Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2013-03-23 04:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Adel Khamez
iyammarrok wrote:


Damnit man.

Read the news. SoE messages from the planet noted that unarmed civilians were fighting against armed provists.

a civilian fighting for their life and home is not a terrorist.

That said, coming from you, i can understand that point of view. I'm sure every matari who didn't meekly accept a 'reclaiming' was an insurgent too, right?


If they pick up a weapon, they have made a choice. I honor their courage, but I would still shoot if my Empress ordered it.

If you want to be considered a lawful combatant under treaty, at least wear an armband or something. A civilian caught parking a carbomb while un-uniformed WILL be treated as a terrorist.

And yes, I realize that Caldari on Caldari Prime will soon find themselves under these rules. Trust me, the Gallente military will treat any un-uniformed Caldari who shoots at a soldier as a criminal.

If they have not picked up a weapon, but are merely failing to disperse, then the officer that gave the order to fire needs to be found and punished. There are plenty of non-lethal enforcement tools available. Shooting unarmed civilians is stupid and wasteful.

Amarr Victor, Deus Vult!
Rhiannon Dellacorte
Liberty Vanguard
#60 - 2013-03-23 04:34:02 UTC
Adel Khamez wrote:
Shooting unarmed civilians is stupid and wasteful.


I think those unarmed civilians agree with you. Which is why they're trying to become armed civilians, so they can at least die with some semblance of dignity.

Rules of Acquisition #261

A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.